What is Islam? - a brief investigation

[Andre]

Would you like to know about the proofs the Quran provides?

Hell yeah! But of course it DOESN'T provide proof, because if it DID I would already know about it, and we would all believe that Allah is God wouldn't we?

 

[pladecalvo]

Hell yeah! But of course it DOESN'T provide proof, because if it DID I would already know about it, and we would all believe that Allah is God wouldn't we?

That's one thing that theists appear to have a little trouble with. They claim "poof" yet need "faith". If there was proof then faith wouldn't be necessary and as you say, if there was proof, we wouldn't be on here discussing it and everyone would be Muslim!!

 

[Goat Whisperer]

That's one thing that theists appear to have a little trouble with. They claim "poof" yet need "faith". If there was proof then faith wouldn't be necessary and as you say, if there was proof, we wouldn't be on here discussing it and everyone would be Muslim!!

If there was proof I still wouldn't be muslim, religion just doesn't seem worth an eternity in heaven...

 

[pladecalvo]

If there was proof I still wouldn't be muslim, religion just doesn't seem worth an eternity in heaven...

Mmmm! You could be right there dude!

 

[Andre]

OK - here is INCONTROVERTIBLE PROOF that Jesus is actually who he says he is hahaha.

I have an interest in the substution of numbers for letters, a form of cryptography I guess, called gematria.

There is no formal standard for gematria in English, because unlike Hebrew and Greek, English letters do not have a corresponding numerical value. I therefore use the simplest possible method when playing around with this:

a=1, b=2, c=3 etc etc... z=26. Additionally, any phrases that I equate must have the same number of characters.

For example: JESUS=74 and is 5 letters long. CROSS=74 and is 5 letters long. You see? A lot of Christians know that one - here is one of my own...

Revelation 1:11 (Jesus speaking) - "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last..."

JESUS CHRIST (total: 151 / length: 11 letters)
A Z FIRST LAST (total: 151 / length: 11 letters)

Beat that!

 

[Goat Whisperer]

OK - here is INCONTROVERTIBLE PROOF that Jesus is actually who he says he is hahaha.

I have an interest in the substution of numbers for letters, a form of cryptography I guess, called gematria.

There is no formal standard for gematria in English, because unlike Hebrew and Greek, English letters do not have a corresponding numerical value. I therefore use the simplest possible method when playing around with this:

a=1, b=2, c=3 etc etc... z=26. Additionally, any phrases that I equate must have the same number of characters.

For example: JESUS=74 and is 5 letters long. CROSS=74 and is 5 letters long. You see? A lot of Christians know that one - here is one of my own...

Revelation 1:11 (Jesus speaking) - "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last..."

JESUS CHRIST (total: 151 / length: 11 letters)
A Z FIRST LAST (total: 151 / length: 11 letters)

Beat that!

That's just stupid lol

 

[Andre]

That's just stupid lol

I know. :cool

 

[Sylar]

Islam in my opinion is wrong and should be banned in our country. THIS is just my opinion before you start flaming and deleting!

 

[wednesday]

Islam in my opinion is wrong and should be banned in our country. THIS is just my opinion before you start flaming and deleting!

I dont think you can ban a country??:jk
Sorry my bad!

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Islam in my opinion is wrong and should be banned in our country. THIS is just my opinion before you start flaming and deleting!

Although the religion carries bad habits and beliefs,it is NOT the actual religions fault! It's not like the Quran tells them to be suicide bombers, it's horrible mass terrorists that tell, them their religion says that they should be suicide bombers. So yes the religion is used for bad things, but no, it shouldn't be named a bad relgion because of it and it definitly should not be "banned".

 

[Sylar]

Although the religion carries bad habits and beliefs,it is NOT the actual religions fault! It's not like the Quran tells them to be suicide bombers, it's horrible mass terrorists that tell, them their religion says that they should be suicide bombers. So yes the religion is used for bad things, but no, it shouldn't be named a bad relgion because of it and it definitly should not be "banned".

yes it should, they use the words of allah for their own cause, UK has a queen who is head of the church of england, not head of the mosque of england,

we should not have Islam in uk..

if you want to follow Islam, noone is stopping you. Just go somewhere where its a religion, dont impose or force it on others.

I will not build a church in Iraq, and I will respect your laws and relgion, do the same for me and my country please.

END OF.

 

[Zorak]

yes it should, they use the words of allah for their own cause, UK has a queen who is head of the church of england, not head of the mosque of england,

we should not have Islam in uk..

if you want to follow Islam, noone is stopping you. Just go somewhere where its a religion, dont impose or force it on others.

I will not build a church in Iraq, and I will respect your laws and relgion, do the same for me and my country please.

END OF.

There are already churches in Iraq, and why do you say Iraq? Why don't you say Israel which is a lot closer to where Islam started, oh wait - we already kicked them out of there and built loads of churches.

 

[Minor Axis]

Islam in my opinion is wrong and should be banned in our country. THIS is just my opinion before you start flaming and deleting!

I disagree on the principle.

 

[nTejas]

am a follower of Jesus Christ.......

Islam is a branch of the same tree leading to God.

The thing about Islam that turns me off is the fact that Muslims do not accept the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.......Muslims (Koran) claim that someone who looked like Jesus was crucified........which to me is a complete denial of Jesus Christ as depicted by the truth found in the Gospels. The crucifixion of Christ is all about salvation and redemption. By accepting the gift of Christ one is transformed .....and good deeds follow.

Muslims believe that one must do good deeds to get into heaven. Christians believe the kingdom of heaven is a gift offered to everyone through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Muslims deny the crucifixion. The true enemies of Christ are those who deny Christ......and Christianity tells us to love our enemies.....very powerful.

 

[pladecalvo]

The thing about Islam that turns me off is the fact that Muslims do not accept the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.......Muslims (Koran) claim that someone who looked like Jesus was crucified........which to me is a complete denial of Jesus Christ as depicted by the truth found in the Gospels.

Would that be the same sort of "truth" claimed in the Qur'an, Bhagavad Gita, Akaranga Sutra, Atharva Veda, Yajur Veda, Mahayana Texts, Sama Veda, Confucian Analects, Granth Sahib, Rig Veda or any of the other religious works that could be mentioned.......or are you one of those theists who claim to be in sole possession of "truth"?

Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shintoism, Sikhism, Taoism and Zoroastrianism all claim that they have the "truth"....why should we believe you and not them?

 

[nTejas]

Would that be the same sort of "truth" claimed in the Qur'an, Bhagavad Gita, Akaranga Sutra, Atharva Veda, Yajur Veda, Mahayana Texts, Sama Veda, Confucian Analects, Granth Sahib, Rig Veda or any of the other religious works that could be mentioned.......or are you one of those theists who claim to be in sole possession of "truth"?

Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shintoism, Sikhism, Taoism and Zoroastrianism all claim that they have the "truth"....why should we believe you and not them?

because it is true

SACRIFICE = LOVE

 

[Minor Axis]

am a follower of Jesus Christ.......

Islam is a branch of the same tree leading to God.

The thing about Islam that turns me off is the fact that Muslims do not accept the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.......Muslims (Koran) claim that someone who looked like Jesus was crucified........which to me is a complete denial of Jesus Christ as depicted by the truth found in the Gospels. The crucifixion of Christ is all about salvation and redemption. By accepting the gift of Christ one is transformed .....and good deeds follow.

Muslims believe that one must do good deeds to get into heaven. Christians believe the kingdom of heaven is a gift offered to everyone through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

Muslims deny the crucifixion. The true enemies of Christ are those who deny Christ......and Christianity tells us to love our enemies.....very powerful.

Christianity vs Muslim, Muslim vs Christianity. If your turned off, no wonder, your Christian. When it comes to the truth of the Gospels, this is an assumption or faith, your choice.

As I've said before, arguing your religion is more truthful in itself is a waist of time. You may feel it is the truth, but for those undecided, truth needs to be backed up with some facts and a story in a book does not usually qualify.

 

[Sylviane88]

Yes, well although that is true, you still can't hide the fact that there ARE Islamic countries that treat women as property, where it isn't illegal to sell, trade and rape them. There ARE islamic countries that have laws against women being able to show faces and hands. Yes maybe the women could feel "power" in whering thos clothes, but, its not like whering a regular shirt, and pair of pants, even a modest pair of shorts wouldn't do the same thing.

Oh yes sister .. But do not forget .. here we talk about Islam not some ISLAMIC COUNTRIES

really? so show me?

Im open...... show me now without words.

I'll do, and without words !!

did you see the links below ? ... so make an effort and discover what my brother "Temperamental" was talking about !!!;
The Religion of Islam - Category: Evidence Islam is Truth
The Religion of Islam - Category: The Existence of God
The Religion of Islam - Category: Logical Proofs
The Religion of Islam - Category: The Scientific Miracles of the Holy Quran
I've already mentionned these links, when you have a question about what is in them, i'll be here.

You have mentioned several times in this thread the idea that Jesus is God. Admittedly this IS a question for some Christians, but the GENERAL Christian belief is that God is three distinct individuals:

God the Father
God the Son (Jesus Christ)
God the Holy Spirit

Mostly of christians believe that Jesus is the God and the God is Jesus. If you've another opinion,or if you believe that Jesus is only the son of GOD, you should explain if they are two separate beings or not.

This is the concept of the TRINITY which you surely must have encountered when researching religion for those three years. It is indeed one of the reasons that Islam rejects Christianity my man! According to Islam it is ridiculous to believe that Allah would have had a son. Jesus Christ is supposedly the SON of God, and fully God, but NOT God himself in one person.

I know so, and I know that it is impossible to believe that 1+1+1=1 !!! to respond to this: christians priests said:
anyone = body + spirit + mind .. however he is one not three !!!

this example is totally false:

my body is just a part of me, it is not enough to be "me", the same with the spirit and the mind, all they are just parts.

part + part + part = all (me) .. and this is logical .. but about God:

You said : jesus is fully God !!! and the other christians believe that the father is fully God, the same with the holy spirit:

All + All + All = All .. this is true in only one case: if the All is the number zero !!! so if the God = 0 .:humm:

Incidentally, if God is omnipotent (all-powerful) then surely "becoming a man" would be very easy for him.

I was asking myself why the all-powerful God needs the theatrical of steel and Sacrifice !!!

Well let's -before- know your believe about God and Jesus if they are one or three, then we'll continue

Very much so.....with one proviso......you can't use the Qur'an to prove that the Qur'an is true. That's just circular reasoning. Please provide independent, objective and verifiable evidence for your claim.

I guess an example like the scientific miracles of Quran will do

The Religion of Islam - Category: The Scientific Miracles of the Holy Quran

I will leave you with a worthless little thought of my own to help you better understand how a Trinity of beings who are God could work together in creation. This is obviously not how things actually would work - it is a simplification, but it is slightly interesting to consider:
God the Father - the architect
God the Son - the builder
God the Holy Spirit - the interior decorator

ouch .. funny .. I think no christian will agree.

Confucianism, Hinduism, Islam, Jainism, Judaism, Shintoism, Sikhism, Taoism and Zoroastrianism all claim that they have the "truth"....why should we believe you and not them?

the answer here is a long investigation, not simply an opinion ! ... you should do a comparison

 

[Goat Whisperer]

yes it should, they use the words of allah for their own cause, UK has a queen who is head of the church of england, not head of the mosque of england,

we should not have Islam in uk..

if you want to follow Islam, noone is stopping you. Just go somewhere where its a religion, dont impose or force it on others.

I will not build a church in Iraq, and I will respect your laws and relgion, do the same for me and my country please.

END OF.

It will be "END OF." If you give me an official quote from there religion telling them to do something wrong for there god, and DIRECTLY from their religion (Like a bible or something official, not from lips of a mass murder please!)

 

[Andre]

I am sorry Sylviane - my last post was perhaps too loose for this conversation, and I was talking in terms I am familiar with off the top of my head. The concept of the Trinity seems hard for you to grasp. It is hard for many Christians to grasp too - it is not a simple doctrine at all and is the cause of some dispute. There are probably people on this board who will have a different and better understanding of it than me and may be able to answer you more correctly.

Well let's -before- know your believe about God and Jesus if they are one or three, then we'll continue

I do not have a fixed belief about the truth of Christianity - I am not a practicing Christian, so I will leave it up to someone else to give you an introduction to the concept of Trinity - I have no desire to convert you to such an idea so it is not worth my time to research it from a basic perspective that might convince you I'm sorry.

Mostly of christians believe that Jesus is the God and the God is Jesus. If you've another opinion,or if you believe that Jesus is only the son of GOD, you should explain if they are two separate beings or not.

I believe that the standard interpretation is that Jesus is the Son of God, and also God, and that God consists of three beings who are in such perfect harmony that they are completely united - to the point where they are one entity, but even that is a massive oversimplification.

There is a hint to the fact that God is more than one distinct entity on the first page of most bibles:

"Let US create man in OUR own image." - Genesis 1:26

All + All + All = All .. this is true in only one case: if the All is the number zero !!! so if the God = 0 .:humm:

It is also the case if All is the number infinity my friend! But nice try.

I will try to be of help in your thread where I can, but I am not going to try to defend concepts to you that I have no firm belief in. In New Zealand we often call each other "brother" as well by the way, male and female, but we shorten it to "bro".