What is Islam? - a brief investigation

[pladecalvo]

are you serious? cause thats hilarious...

"But now the same tools that historians, linguists and archaeologists have applied to the Bible for about 150 years are beginning to be applied to the Koran. The results are explosive. The Koran is beautifully written, but often obscure. One reason is that the Arabic language was born as a written language with the Koran, and there's growing evidence that many of the words were Syriac or Aramaic.
For example, the Koran says martyrs going to heaven will get "hur," and the word was taken by early commentators to mean "virgins," hence those 72 consorts. But in Aramaic, hur meant "white" and was commonly used to mean "white grapes."
Some martyrs arriving in paradise may regard a bunch of grapes as a letdown. But the scholar who pioneered this pathbreaking research, using the pseudonym Christoph Luxenberg for security reasons, noted in an e-mail interview that grapes made more sense in context because the Koran compares them to crystal and pearls, and because contemporary accounts have paradise abounding with fruit, especially white grapes."

See here
Martyrs, Virgins and Grapes

 

[Minor Axis]

Overheard from heaven:
Well I'm a most successful martyr. Ah, where is my castle?

The Voice: It's over there.

That little hut?? But where will my virgins live?

The Voice: Inside on the table.

Well if you say so, but it might be a little cramped. I guess I can keep a few in the house at a time to pleasure me and put up some tents for the rest. Let the good times roll! brief pause...

Walking into the hut the door slams shut, locking. Looking around there is a table, a chair, and nothing else significant.

Well where are they?

The Voice: Open your eyes, over there on the table in the bowl!

What the... darn! These are grapes, not virgins!?

The Voice: VIRGINS? What kind of God do you take me for? Your a spirit now, what need have you of physical pleasure? The grapes are just for appearance anyway.

And I really don't like grapes... (sigh), bouncing one off the wall. Why did the door lock?

The Voice: You see, murder is not my preferred method of communing with your fellow human.

And the door is locked?

The Voice: Yes a few hundred thousand years to contemplate how you got here should do.

Little voice: Oh, BTW, who do those other huts belong to?

The Voice: Those are some Crusaders I rounded up a while back. You'll be neighbors for a while. See ya later gator!

 

[Sylviane88]

I was asking you hoping you might have an opinion why so many Muslims have seen fit to strap on a bomb? In my ignorant opinion, I'd say they have bought into the rhetoric of their movement and they have been promised fabulous rewards in the afterlife by controlling people who may have twisted Islam to suit their political agenda, of course that is just a guess as I don't know about Islam. Anyway...

You want my opinion? Islam doesn't permit so.

Whatever religious book you believe in, god is shown to be a control freak.

brother;

I've already said: GOD is not against freedom, and now i'll add some explaining:

In islam (for example), GOD prohibits anything bad for us ( such as deceit and theft, fraud and treachery , murder and adultery, hypocrisy and treason ... etc.) ...
however, he permits and encourages to do anything good ( such as honesty and meet, secretariat and mercy, pardon and justice ... etc ) ... so where is the restrict of freedom in that ?
----
secondly, I noted -by the responses- that the mostly of brothers here are atheists !

someone says: how can I believe in an invisible GOD ?

yes it's true, but I also have a question: can you see the limits of this universe?

of course you can't !, and therefore, how you want to be able to see the "creator" of these limits?

according to Islam, God is the creator of all the universe.

although if I were not Muslim ... I see so very logical.

and I saw several convincing and precise arguments show the existence of god.

But let's say -however- we are not convinced of the existence of God.
we also are not convinced of the non-existence of God ...

so, let's see the smarter choice !

Nobody can be sure 100/100 there is a "god". The matter is like a "gamble" or we find the good result after the "death", and here is the problem:

The betting looks therefore one of only two fates, winner or loser.

1 - for a believer, if he wins (so God existes) he will win everything -heaven- (by God), but if he loses he will have nothing to lose (no god).

2 - for the atheist, if he wins ( so no god) he will have nothing to gain (no god), and if he loses ( God existes) he will lose everything -hell- (by God).

Therefore, you noticed the vast differences ... so you've the choice !

 

[Minor Axis]

You want my opinion? Islam doesn't permit so.

Not to sound nasty, but if your not willing to give an opinion then your wasting your time posting in these forums. This is not just a platform to advertise religion, it's a back and forth, an exchange of ideas. And if Islam does not permit you to express your opinion, then that sounds like a good reason to avoid it imo.

BTW here are a couple of good current event Islam related links for our readers pleasure:

Newsweek: The New Face of Islam

USA Today: Religion can help end wars, too.

 

[Sylviane88]

Not to sound nasty, but if your not willing to give an opinion then your wasting your time posting in these forums. This is not just a platform to advertise religion, it's a back and forth, an exchange of ideas. And if Islam does not permit you to express your opinion, then that sounds like a good reason to avoid it imo..

my brother,
did you think I write blindly?

islam forbid -clearly- suicide, and when islam forbid killing, this time "suicide" is killing yourself, so it is strictly forbidden in islam,

Quran says clearly that suicide is forbidden. read: "O ye who believe!... [do not] kill yourselves, for truly Allah has been to you Most Merciful. If any do that in rancour and injustice, soon shall We cast him into the Fire..." (Qur'an 4:29-30).

BTW here are a couple of good current event Islam related links for our readers pleasure:

Newsweek: The New Face of Islam

USA Today: Religion can help end wars, too

thanks for the informations , but Islam has only one face,the truth always, not more faces !.

 

[Minor Axis]

my brother,
did you think I write blindly?

islam forbid -clearly- suicide, and when islam forbid killing, this time "suicide" is killing yourself, so it is strictly forbidden in islam,

Very good. So suicide bombers are not following Islam's teachings? Why then has Al Queda's method's not been denounced by the Islam community and Osama Bin Laden denounced as a bloody murderer? To clarify, this is not intended as a judgmental statement, just a question.

Those links are current events, nothing more but hopeful signs imo.

 

[pladecalvo]

I also have a question: can you see the limits of this universe?

How do you know there are "limits" to this Universe?

according to Islam, God is the creator of all the universe.

According to Hindus it was Brahma. Why should we believe you and not them?

1 - for a believer, if he wins (so God existes) he will win everything -heaven- (by God), but if he loses he will have nothing to lose (no god).

2 - for the atheist, if he wins ( so no god) he will have nothing to gain (no god), and if he loses ( God existes) he will lose everything -hell- (by God).

Sorry! Pascal's Wager is flawed throughout.

 

[Minor Axis]

1 - for a believer, if he wins (so God existes) he will win everything -heaven- (by God), but if he loses he will have nothing to lose (no god).

2 - for the atheist, if he wins ( so no god) he will have nothing to gain (no god), and if he loses ( God existes) he will lose everything -hell- (by God).

Sorry! Pascal's Wager is flawed throughout.

Here is why:

1- If you pick the wrong God or the wrong dogma, you still might end up in hell.

2- If the atheist is wrong, a merciful God (which the current popular opinion leans to) would forgive him might even respect him for questioning.

 

[Sylviane88]

How do you know there are "limits" to this Universe?

This is the answer, you was unable to see all the universe, so how would you like to be able to see its creator (GOD)?

According to Hindus it was Brahma. Why should we believe you and not them?

The lexical and the logical meaning of "GOD" is that the GOD is the creator, and it is impossible to believe that a creature is bigger, stronger or more than its creator !!! in Islam GOD has created everything. and there is nothing stronger than GOD, God is the absolute power. so how can you see him, and you did not even been able to see the whole universe ?.

and let's take for example: Jesus; Jesus was only a man, born and die like any human. it's impossible for him to be the creator!.

 

[pladecalvo]

The lexical and the logical meaning of "GOD" is that the GOD is the creator, and it is impossible to believe that a creature is bigger, stronger or more than its creator !!! in Islam GOD has created everything. and there is nothing stronger than GOD, God is the absolute power. so how can you see him, and you did not even been able to see the whole universe ?.

and let's take for example: Jesus; Jesus was only a man, born and die like any human. it's impossible for him to be the creator!.

All very interesting .....but it did nothing to answer the question did it? The question was 'Why should we believe that your god created everything and not the Hindu god?....... or the Greek god or any of the other gods that are worshipped or have been worshipped in the past?

 

[Sylviane88]

All very interesting .....but it did nothing to answer the question did it? The question was 'Why should we believe that your god created everything and not the Hindu god?....... or the Greek god or any of the other gods that are worshipped or have been worshipped in the past?

that depends to you brother, and to your interesting, when you'll be very interested to know the truth about the real God and if he exists or not, you should make a long serious investigation !. for me, I investigated the matter for more than 3 years, I found that God in Islam has the most logical caracters which are accepted by any mind.
Therefore, you can not see an atheist in a Muslim community, because nobody suspect the existence of God, the reason is: he is convinced by the logical truth in advance.
On the contrary, for example in a Christian community, you can find someone "Christian" today, and tomorrow you will find him "atheist" because he was not convinced by the explanation of the nature of God according to his religion. some could not accept that God is a man like him (Jesus).
also for example, God in Judaism is a "sheep" with seven horns according to some states in the Old Testament ! also in the new testament, so also in christianity ! and that is not accepted by any mind !

In Islam, God is also called "Allah" ( from arabic) quran says about God:

""Allah is He besides Whom there is no god, the Everliving, the Self-subsisting by Whom all subsist; slumber does not overtake Him nor sleep; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot comprehend anything out of His knowledge except what He pleases, His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them both tires Him not, and He is the Most High, the Great."" (quran 1-255)

 

[skyblue]

Therefore, you can not see an atheist in a Muslim community, because nobody suspect the existence of God, the reason is: he is convinced by the logical truth in advance. ]

your wrong.........non believers are put to death in muslim countries...hence no non believers

 

[Andre]

God in Judaism is a "sheep" with seven horns according to some states in the Old Testament ! also in the new testament, so also in christianity ! and that is not accepted by any mind !

Please point me to an Old Testament verse that refers to God having seven horns or being a sheep. Just one will do.

Jesus is symbolically and generally referred to as the "lamb of god", to emphasise the fact that he served as a sacrifice, but not one single Christian actually seriously thinks Jesus is a sheep - I bet you all my money. Jesus is also the "lion of Judah" but not an ACTUAL lion. Rawr!

The seven horns of the lamb are symbolic of the seven spirits of God, and perhaps of great power. Seven is a perfect number according to some Christians.

Anyway I HOPE you are right in saying that no mind would accept that God is a sheep!

 

[Minor Axis]

Therefore, you can not see an atheist in a Muslim community, because nobody suspect the existence of God, the reason is: he is convinced by the logical truth in advance. [/COLOR][/I][/B]

I think that is wishful thinking.

 

[pladecalvo]

that depends to you brother, and to your interesting, when you'll be very interested to know the truth about the real God and if he exists or not, you should make a long serious investigation !. for me, I investigated the matter for more than 3 years,

I've "investigated" religions for over 40 years and have found no reason to believe in any of it.

I found that God in Islam has the most logical caracters which are accepted by any mind.

What you fail to grasp is that Hindus would say the same for their god. The Greeks said it about theirs and so did the Romans. Christians will tell you that they have found that their god has the most "logical characters" ......that's why they believe in him. Just because you personally find your god is true and other gods are false....it doesn't make it true. So I will ask you again....why should we believe that your religion has the 'truth' and that all other religions are wrong.

Therefore, you can not see an atheist in a Muslim community, because nobody suspect the existence of God,

Not true! I have a Saudi friend living in Jouf who is atheist.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

The lexical meaning of Islam is submission, and adherence to the commands of Allah without objection

yep... you lost me right about there.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

that is totally false, who said so except you? islam does not say so.

Muslim women cover their heads only, not the face, and this is not a sign of subjection !!!

like this for example:



it is called "al-hijab"



it is a hidden truth because -for example- you didn't know that islam does not order woman to cover her face !!!

because the west -who fights "al-hijab"- forgot to fight also this:

she is a christian Nun. do you see that she cover her head ???
-----------------
my brother;

these information are called "the hidden truth", because they were really hidden by the media in the west, and they were replaced by erroneous concepts.

today, with the most of the media who are under Jewish control and which hate Islam: how can you hear anything good about islam??? if you hear something about islam: you will hear that islam is bad or it is the nightmare of the world !!! all what is false.

and i repeat: how can you believe that the religion of more than 1.5 billion people in the world: permit terrorism for example ??? !!! isn't that ridiculous ?!

my brother if you visited the site which i have already shown to you ( hiddentruth.tk ) you will agree really it was a "hidden truth".

You saying brother all the time is pretty annoying actually... anyways, in school my teacher rarely mentioned that islam was all about terrisom, she stuck teaching us what the religoun islam is all about, and I have a fairly clear idea.

Now about the little head dress thing, in some muslmis countries (Notice I said SOME not all) it is illegal to let women show there faces and heals and such, no where is it illegal for nuns too, it is a choice for them.

See, there are pictures of them as well:

 

[Sylviane88]

your wrong.........non believers are put to death in muslim countries...hence no non believers

brother, are you serious? I lived in an arab countrie and I never saw anyone killed in muslim countries because he became non-believer !!!.

can you put your opinion -next time- with some proofs ?

Please point me to an Old Testament verse that refers to God having seven horns or being a sheep. Just one will do.

Jesus is symbolically and generally referred to as the "lamb of god", to emphasise the fact that he served as a sacrifice, but not one single Christian actually seriously thinks Jesus is a sheep - I bet you all my money. Jesus is also the "lion of Judah" but not an ACTUAL lion. Rawr!

The seven horns of the lamb are symbolic of the seven spirits of God, and perhaps of great power. Seven is a perfect number according to some Christians.

Anyway I HOPE you are right in saying that no mind would accept that God is a sheep!

Brother, the bible has said so not me, read:

what JOHN says about his GOD:

(JOHN 5:6) : """ And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth """.

(JOHN 17:14) : """These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings"""

my brother, I guess you're christian, forgive me , I do not want to deride you ! - and I hope that does not believe so - on the contrary: I greatly respect you and anyone here. but what kind of god is that which is described/portrayed/viewed as a lamb, a sheep? And with seven eyes and seven horns?!

What you fail to grasp is that Hindus would say the same for their god. The Greeks said it about theirs and so did the Romans. Christians will tell you that they have found that their god has the most "logical characters" ......that's why they believe in him. Just because you personally find your god is true and other gods are false....it doesn't make it true. So I will ask you again....why should we believe that your religion has the 'truth' and that all other religions are wrong.

take for example Judaism: you have not the right to be jewish, except if your mother is jewish !!! so if God of Judaism ( Called "Yahoo" in Hebrew ) is the true God, You'll 100/100 go to Hell !!!

For christianism: there are hundreds of things that prevent me to choose it ! ... ex: the clear contradictions in the Bible (computational .. historical .. logical ...) .. the human nature of the creator of the universe ! ... etc ..

For the Greek or Roman God, i tell you there are "gods" not only one, and they are made by "stone" by there creature !!!

the same for Hindus, there are several "Gods", all are made by "stones" by men. all these gods are just parts of the god called "brahma". also in Hindus: if the body dies, the spirit left him to get another body !!! therefore, eating meat is forbidden. and I didn't remember if my spirit was in another body !! ... you too.

In Islam, God is believed to be the only real supreme being, all-powerful and all knowing Creator, Sustainer, Ordainer, and Judge of the universe. Islam puts a heavy emphasis on the conceptualization of God as strictly singular. He is unique and inherently one, all-merciful and omnipotent. he has the most logical attributes:
The Most Gracious
The Most Merciful
The Ever Forgiving
The Ever Providing
The Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds
The Self Subsisting (upon whom all creatures depend for sustenance)
The Eternal Lord (who never dies)
The Supremely Wise

Therefore, you can not see an atheist in a Muslim community, because nobody suspect the existence of God,

Not true! I have a Saudi friend living in Jouf who is atheist.

you didn't understand me well, I guess your friend is in Saudi just for work or tourism, was he muslim before ? you quoted only one part of my saying, I said: the reason is: he is convinced by the logical truth in advance. (was your friend already muslim)

2- If the atheist is wrong, a merciful God (which the current popular opinion leans to) would forgive him might even respect him for questioning.

Here you're alright brother, I can't say no. the decision is for GOD not for me. but unfortunatly, for the christianity -for example- if you don't believe in Jesus, you'll go to hell, for judaism: surely you'll go to hell !!! the onlyone who can save you is your mother if she is jewish !!! if she isn't, you have not the right to enter heaven ...

for Islam, God forgive you in three cases:

-if you never heared about islam in your life.
-if you heared about islam but not enough to call attention.
-if you heard only lies about it, but you couldn't investigate the matter (you had not the means).

But if you heared about islam enough to call attention, and you had the means to search and discover the truth. however you didn't anything, you are sentenced by God.

these days, mostly of people heared about islam enough to call attention (By the media). and there are many websites to help them to discover the reality of Islam ( they have the means) so they have to make an effort.

 

[Sylviane88]

You saying brother all the time is pretty annoying actually... anyways, in school my teacher rarely mentioned that islam was all about terrisom, she stuck teaching us what the religoun islam is all about, and I have a fairly clear idea.

Now about the little head dress thing, in some muslmis countries (Notice I said SOME not all) it is illegal to let women show there faces and heals and such, no where is it illegal for nuns too, it is a choice for them.

See, there are pictures of them as well:

brother,

They do so by order of social customs, how can Islam be the responsible ?
If you guess that Islam order so, you have to give me the states from the quran or Hadith which.
You should know that I believe In Islam, not muslims.

 

[pladecalvo]

take for example Judaism: you have not the right to be jewish, except if your mother is jewish !!! so if God of Judaism ( Called "Yahoo" in Hebrew ) is the true God,

Yahoo!?!?! Isn't that an internet search engine?? :unsure:

For christianism: there are hundreds of things that prevent me to choose it ! ... ex: the clear contradictions in the Bible (computational .. historical .. logical ...) .. the human nature of the creator of the universe ! ... etc ..

....but you're still not understanding what I'm saying friend. The same reasons that you gave for not choosing Christianity would apply to why a Christian or a Hindu would not choose Islam. You are Muslim and believe the Qur'an not because it is true.....but because you were born and raised in a Muslim country and probably had parents who were also Muslim. Had you been born and raised in USA with Christian parents you would be on this forum proclaiming the 'truth' of the Christian Bible. Had you been born and raised in India you would be telling us that the Gita was the only truth. Don't you see that?

you didn't understand me well, I guess your friend is in Saudi just for work or tourism, was he muslim before ? you quoted only one part of my saying, I said: the reason is: he is convinced by the logical truth in advance. (was your friend already muslim)

My friend was born and raised in Saudi and was Muslim until about 10 years ago when he became atheist.