Martin/Zimmerman-----Poll

What happened ?

  • Zimmerman was looking for the first black guy to shoot.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Martin stalking Zimmerman is Ok

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It is a crime for Zimmerman to see where stalker Martin ran to.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The heck with a slow judicial system lets execute Zimmerman now

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I think Zimmerman had super human running skills and caught the young black man.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    19
  • Poll closed .

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Panacea

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I haven't ever claimed to know what Martin did to Zimmerman, but the details of the case still lead me to place the fault on Zimmerman for this mess. I agree with Tangerine's line of thinking about this.

He wouldn't have any sort of redness on his head if he had left him alone and followed common sense directions from dispatch, and Martin might still be alive if the cops had been involved instead of Zimmerman.

Just stupid as fuck, and a waste of a young life.
Hopefully no more violence occurs from this mess.
 
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Tim

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and there is not clear if Zimmerman caused the altercation that resulted in trayvon's shooting


following someone and asking what they are doing is not illegal, and is not an altercation

I want to ask you a serious question here. I want you to put yourself in Martins shoes and think about how you would react.

It's night and raining and you are heading home after buying some things at the store. Along the way you see this guy in an SUV watching you and talking on the phone. You walk closer to see if it's someone you might know and realize it isn't. So you continue on your way and this guy gets out of his SUV and starts to follow you. Now for whatever reason you get spooked by this and run, the guy runs after you....

So what do you do? At some point do you stand your ground and confront him? Do you continue to run and hope he doesn't shoot you in the back? (Being chased at night by a stranger, him having a gun would be on my mind whether I saw one or not)

And if this guy caught you, would it be right for HIM to claim self defense if you got the better of him? Remember, you weren't doing anything wrong, just walking home from the store....

This is the problem I am facing. Zimmerman did the chasing, he is responsible for the chain of events that lead to Martin's death. Murder? No. Manslaughter? Most likely not. Maybe third degree manslaughter where the death was an accident but was associated with another crime like fighting. ???
 

Joe the meek

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This is the problem I am facing. Zimmerman did the chasing, he is responsible for the chain of events that lead to Martin's death. Murder? No. Manslaughter? Most likely not. Maybe third degree manslaughter where the death was an accident but was associated with another crime like fighting. ???

I agree, however, if by chance Zimmerman was walking back to his SUV and Martin approached Zimmerman IF Martin already had a clear lane 60 yards to his residence, I could see where the roles are now reversed and Martin is the aggressor.
 

itsmeJonB

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The head is an exaggerated bleeder. The wound can be minor if its not covered it will bleed profusely. So he let it run a bit? That's a possibility
 

All Else Failed

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I want to ask you a serious question here. I want you to put yourself in Martins shoes and think about how you would react.

It's night and raining and you are heading home after buying some things at the store. Along the way you see this guy in an SUV watching you and talking on the phone. You walk closer to see if it's someone you might know and realize it isn't. So you continue on your way and this guy gets out of his SUV and starts to follow you. Now for whatever reason you get spooked by this and run, the guy runs after you....

So what do you do? At some point do you stand your ground and confront him? Do you continue to run and hope he doesn't shoot you in the back? (Being chased at night by a stranger, him having a gun would be on my mind whether I saw one or not)

And if this guy caught you, would it be right for HIM to claim self defense if you got the better of him? Remember, you weren't doing anything wrong, just walking home from the store....


This is the problem I am facing. Zimmerman did the chasing, he is responsible for the chain of events that lead to Martin's death. Murder? No. Manslaughter? Most likely not. Maybe third degree manslaughter where the death was an accident but was associated with another crime like fighting. ???

Erm, how do you even know this is what happened?
 

The Man

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I want to ask you a serious question here. I want you to put yourself in Martins shoes and think about how you would react.

It's night and raining and you are heading home after buying some things at the store. Along the way you see this guy in an SUV watching you and talking on the phone. You walk closer to see if it's someone you might know and realize it isn't. So you continue on your way and this guy gets out of his SUV and starts to follow you. Now for whatever reason you get spooked by this and run, the guy runs after you....

So what do you do? At some point do you stand your ground and confront him? Do you continue to run and hope he doesn't shoot you in the back? (Being chased at night by a stranger, him having a gun would be on my mind whether I saw one or not)

And if this guy caught you, would it be right for HIM to claim self defense if you got the better of him? Remember, you weren't doing anything wrong, just walking home from the store....

This is the problem I am facing. Zimmerman did the chasing, he is responsible for the chain of events that lead to Martin's death. Murder? No. Manslaughter? Most likely not. Maybe third degree manslaughter where the death was an accident but was associated with another crime like fighting. ???
I want to ask you a serious question here. I want you to put yourself in Martins shoes and think about how you would react.
Which would be fine...but your story below is just that..a story


It's night and raining and you are heading home after buying some things at the store.
Chapter one starts incorrectly....Martin was in the complex walking around looking at the houses in the complex that had been having a rash of burglaries.

Along the way you see this guy in an SUV watching you and talking on the phone.
Chapter 2 incorrect...Along the way has already passed..He is already in the complex.
You walk closer to see if it's someone you might know and realize it isn't.

Chapter 3 wrong..as chapters one and two are wrong...You expect people to believe he was walking past the SUV on his way home and walked up to the SUV to see who was in it...then realize it was someone else then took off running.

So you continue on your way and this guy gets out of his SUV and starts to follow you.

Chapter 4 wrong...Martin took off running after he came close to Zimmerman's vehicle and saw him calling him in.

Now for whatever reason you get spooked by this and run, the guy runs after you....

Chapter 5 wrong...Martin ran when he saw Zimmerman on the phone as he approached Zimmerman's vehicle.
Zimmerman stayed on the phone with communications while discussing martin...He was not running at that time..nor has he been ever stated he ever ran after Martin.
So what do you do?

Chapter 6. I will write this chapter ..He should have went home..he was just a few units from his house...Zimmerman did not chase him..The young man martin had every opportunity to go home.
At some point do you stand your ground and confront him?

Chapter 7..More bullshit as chapters 1 through 5 are all bullshit..To further..Martin has ran from Zimmerman..so why turn around and wait for Zimmerman when you are just a few units from your home.

Do you continue to run and hope he doesn't shoot you in the back? (Being chased at night by a stranger, him having a gun would be on my mind whether I saw one or not)

Chapter 8 ...is based on if your other chapters are correct..of which they are not ...What he should have done if chapter 8 was correct by the way,,was run the fuck home..he was just a few units from his home...He had a huge head start on Zimmerman and was not far from his home.


And if this guy caught you, would it be right for HIM to claim self defense if you got the better of him? Remember, you weren't doing anything wrong, just walking home from the store

Chapter 9... Martin wasnt just walking home from the store ...he was out walking in the rain looking at the units Zimmerman got his ass whipped and head beat into the sidewalk as martin attacked him....Shooting Martin is self defense.


This is the problem I am facing. Zimmerman did the chasing, he is responsible for the chain of events that lead to Martin's death. Murder? No. Manslaughter? Most likely not. Maybe third degree manslaughter where the death was an accident but was associated with another crime like fighting. ???

Final chapter ;)

The reason you face the problem is because your story faces many problems.
You listened to the same communications tapes as we did...but yet..you still want to formulate a story of which there is absolutely nothing to support...you believe what you want to believe in lieu of all the evidence that suggests other wise...You have already made up your mind of which follows along the the lines of one grand tale of which Jackson and the bunch led you to believe.
There is no conspiracy Tim ....while your story may make a good book..it has no use in regard to what happened that evening.

As far as chain of events...I have already stated that Zimmerman would need to be committing a crime...Going to see where Martin went is not a crime.
 
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All Else Failed

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I have listened to them several times and I don't think it is clear that is how it totally played out


they're even re-analyzing the tapes now because they have enhanced audio they didn't listen to before






Anyways, fact is that Zimmerman clearly has head wounds. The video confirms it. The paramedics and police confirm it.
 

Tim

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trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-path.jpg
Which would be fine...but your story below is just that..a story



Chapter one starts incorrectly....Martin was in the complex walking around looking at the houses in the complex that had been having a rash of burglaries.


Chapter 2 incorrect...Along the way has already passed..He is already in the complex.


Chapter 3 wrong..as chapters one and two are wrong...You expect people to believe he was walking past the SUV on his way home and walked up to the SUV to see who was in it...then realize it was someone else then took off running.



Chapter 4 wrong...Martin took off running after he came close to Zimmerman's vehicle and saw him calling him in.



Chapter 5 wrong...Martin ran when he saw Zimmerman on the phone as he approached Zimmerman's vehicle.
Zimmerman stayed on the phone with communications while discussing martin...He was not running at that time..nor has he been ever stated he ever ran after Martin.


Chapter 6. I will write this chapter ..He should have went home..he was just a few units from his house...Zimmerman did not chase him..The young man martin had every opportunity to go home.


Chapter 7..More bullshit as chapters 1 through 5 are all bullshit..To further..Martin has ran from Zimmerman..so why turn around and wait for Zimmerman when you are just a few units from your home.



Chapter 8 ...are based on if your other chapters are correct..of which they are not ...What he should have done if chapter 8 was correct by the way,,was run the fuck home..he was just a few units from his home...He had a huge head start on Zimmerman and was not far from his home.




Chapter 9... Martin wasnt just walking home from the store ...he was out walking in the rain looking at the units Zimmerman got his ass whipped and head beat into the sidewalk as martin attacked him....Shooting Martin is self defense.




Final chapter ;)

The reason you face the problem is because your story faces many problems.
You listened to the same communications tapes as we did...but yet..you still want to formulate a story of which there is absolutely nothing to support...you believe what you want to believe in lieu of all the evidence that suggests other wise...You have already made up your mind of which follows along the the lines of one grand tale of which Jackson and the bunch led you to believe.
There is no conspiracy Tim ....while your story may make a good book..it has no use in regard to what happened that evening.

As far as chain of events...I have already stated that Zimmerman would need to be committing a crime...Going to see where Martin went is not a crime.

I am sorry that you have a bandwidth cap and can't listen to the tapes again, but it's very important to listen to them several times and actually listen to what Z-man is saying. His play by play.

And this is the map of the development and the paths they took. Martin HAD to walk past Z-man's SUV and he wasn't walking around the development looking in houses, he was on a direct path home from the store.

trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-path.jpg
 

teh_fuzz

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I dont see an option to slap the shit out of everyone that posts about this overly emphasized by the media crap, so i refuse to vote given the fact that you are purposely those of us who could not give 2 shits about it.
 

Panacea

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I misread the one I voted for, I don't find it odd to see who is following me.
I'll take a slap though, I've been into that stuff before :tooth
 

The Man

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IMG_0574.jpg

I am sorry that you have a bandwidth cap and can't listen to the tapes again, but it's very important to listen to them several times and actually listen to what Z-man is saying. His play by play.

And this is the map of the development and the paths they took. Martin HAD to walk past Z-man's SUV and he wasn't walking around the development looking in houses, he was on a direct path home from the store.

IMG_0574.jpg

I have listened to the tape 3 times total..there is no need to listen to it again.
Nothing in the tape supports your story.
Same for the map...they are just reference points...the arrows mean nothing as they are merely a story as well.
 
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The Man

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Thats big...NBC intentionally tried to make him look like a racist..I think he could sue..He needs all the money he can get to battle the actual racists.
 

The Man

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Bad news conspiracy theorists...Audio experts smoke and mirrors busted :24:

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Two experts in the field of forensic voice identification, Tom Owen and Ed Primeau, were hired by the Orlando Sentinel to review George Zimmerman’s call to police along with the 911 calls right before the shooting.

They both decided the voice screaming for help on the 911 calls was not George Zimmerman, and each expert arrived at that conclusion by independent methods.

Tom Owen is mentioned first in the article. He’s described as a forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services, LLC.

Let’s take a closer look at the process he used.

After the Sentinel contacted Owen, he used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman’s voice to the 911 call screams.

“I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else,” Owen says.

The software compared that audio to Zimmerman’s voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he’d expect higher than 90 percent.

“As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it’s not Zimmerman,” Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon’s, because he didn’t have a sample of the teen’s voice to compare.

That raises some concerns. Tom Owen apparently compared Zimmerman’s normal speaking voice on a dispatch call, with high-pitched, terrified screaming that was recorded in the background of later 911 calls.

In our world, “that’s the home run,” Owen says.

I was pretty stunned that he could be so sure. After all, the computer program is looking for similarities in the vocal patterns. How many can it possibly find when pattern A is completely normal, laid back speech and pattern B is hysterical screaming?

I wanted to investigate this a bit further and looked into downloading the software Tom Owen used.

But this proved to be extremely difficult, a license for the software costs nearly $5,000.

Easy Voice Biometrics price

That’s a pretty hefty price to pay to test this software out…

After a few more minutes of research, I found out that the Easy Voice Biometrics web domain is actually owned by Tom Owen himself.

Easy Voice Domain

So what Tom Owen is actually doing here, is using his own home-grown software to attempt to determine the similarities in speech markers between two radically different types of voice patterns and claiming that it is accurate “beyond scientific certainty.”

Beyond scientific certainty is a pretty strong statement.

There doesn’t seem to be any disclosure in the Orlando Sentinel article that Tom Owen owns EasyVoiceBiometrics.com, nor any that he was using his own software package to do the analysis.

I’m not sure whether the Orlando Sentinel author realizes it, but that could easily be construed as a conflict of interest, particularly when the software is currently being sold for $5,000 per license. There’s an extremely transparent profit motive for Tom Owen to promote his product in any way that he can, especially at that price.

Since Tom Owen has staked his reputation on this, and has said point-blank that this software is so accurate that he knows “with reasonable scientific certainty” that it’s not Zimmerman on the 911 calls, the software must at least be extremely thoroughly tested, right?

I emailed Mr. Owen to double-check.

Tom Owen email

Doesn’t sound reassuring, does it?

It also says, on Easy Voice Biometric’s own web site, that the software is less than a month old.

This is especially strange, because the Orlando Sentinel article says:

As recently as January, Owen used the same technology to identify accused murderer Sheila Davalloo in a 911 call made almost a decade ago.

How could Owen have been using the same technology in that case when the web site says the software was only released three weeks ago?

It lists a launch date of March 7th, 2012 on the news section of the site:

Easy Voice March 7th

Since Owen referred me to TracerTek.com, I checked out that site as well.

TracerTek.com and EasyVoiceBiometrics.com appear to be using the same web site template, just with different information filled in.

It appears Jeff Klinedinst is involved with both. He is listed as the VP of Marketing on TracerTek and he did the YouTube demo videos for Easy Voice Biometrics.

Here’s a demo video Jeff put together for Easy Voice Biometrics.

The software appears to work fine if someone alters their voice slightly, or if there is light music playing in the background.

But there certainly isn’t anything in the demos about Easy Voice Biometrics offering “reasonable scientific certainty” when someone is screaming in panic on the background of a 911 call.

So where exactly is this “scientific certainty” coming from?

The second expert, Ed Primeau, doesn’t “believe” in Biometric Analysis, but doesn’t say why.

Not all experts rely on biometrics. Ed Primeau, a Michigan-based audio engineer and forensics expert, is not a believer in the technology’s use in courtroom settings.

Ed simply listened to the recordings. Then he decided the noises were Trayvon Martin because of the “tone of the voice” while reading Mother Jones.

“I believe that’s Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt,” Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. “That’s a young man screaming.”

Nevermind that there was an eyewitness to the fight who clearly states it was George Zimmerman yelling out for help. Or that Zimmerman is cited in the original police report as saying he was yelling for help. Or that the yells much more accurately portray someone who is screaming during an assault, rather than someone begging for their life at gunpoint.

Both Primeau and Owen report that they are credentialed by the American College Forensic Examiners Institute.

Sadly, it turns out there is an entire suite of these “American Forensic Board” sites, on almost any topic you can think of, which all seem to be ran by the same person, a gentleman named Dr. O’Block who claims to have nearly a dozen degrees himself.

Forensic Blogging? No?

Once again, most of these sites use the same basic template and only change cursory details, making it difficult to gauge how legitimate the boards are, if at all.

Tom Owen also lists things like this:

Instructor “New York Institute for Forensic Audio” 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998,
1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005,2006, 2007

As prestigious as the “New York Institute for Forensic Audio” sounds, there is no such brick and mortar institute. It is actually a “division” of Owen Investigations, LLC. Tom Owen is basically claiming he was an instructor at his own unaccredited university.

I’m sure we’ll hear more about this in the upcoming weeks, since both of these “experts” have sparked a lot of controversy with their statements and placed their reputations on the line.
--------------------------------------------------------

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/about-those-audio-forsenic-experts

:24:
 
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