How far is too far?

[boxer810]

So going back to your response to Maritxu's post, are you saying then that Jesus did advocate killing homosexuals?

Jesus never stated his OPINION on anything that God told him to do with one exception.....when he asked God why he had forsaken him.....Jesus did what he was told. No questions asked. In Jesus' eyes, when God spoke, there was no argument, no compromise, no nothing. It was as simple as him doing what God handed down.

 

[dt3]

Jesus never stated his OPINION on anything that God told him to do with one exception.....when he asked God why he had forsaken him.....Jesus did what he was told. No questions asked. In Jesus' eyes, when God spoke, there was no argument, no compromise, no nothing. It was as simple as him doing what God handed down.

I haven't been to church in many, many years so maybe you can help me out here. I can't point to anything specific, but I've always heard that Jesus' birth essentially cancelled out Old Testament laws? Do you know what I'm talking about?

 

[Tim]

Not his birth Donnie...

It was his death on the cross... that's why we no longer need to sacrifice animals on an alter anymore.

 

[boxer810]

I haven't been to church in many, many years so maybe you can help me out here. I can't point to anything specific, but I've always heard that Jesus' birth essentially cancelled out Old Testament laws? Do you know what I'm talking about?

Jesus and all the prophets based all their teachings on the Old Testament. The Old Testament was really more about laying down the law so to speak and the New Testament was more of an account of what happens when people disregard God's teachings.

 

[dt3]

Not his birth Donnie...

It was his death on the cross... that's why we no longer need to sacrifice animals on an alter anymore.

hmm...suppose that does make a little more sense

 

[boxer810]

Not his birth Donnie...

It was his death on the cross... that's why we no longer need to sacrifice animals on an alter anymore.

Exactly. Jesus died so that we would only have to ask for forgiveness to be saved. Old Testament laws required random animal sacrifices and such.....one person was even asked to sacrifice his son to show his devotion and love for God.

 

[dt3]

Exactly. Jesus died so that we would only have to ask for forgiveness to be saved. Old Testament laws required random animal sacrifices and such.....one person was even asked to sacrifice his son to show his devotion and love for God.

Exactly. And this salvation applies to homosexuals too. So wouldn't it be fair to say that even if God did favor stoning them in the OT, he wouldn't anymore?

 

[boxer810]

Exactly. And this salvation applies to homosexuals too. So wouldn't it be fair to say that even if God did favor stoning them in the OT, he wouldn't anymore?

In the OT yes, they would have been killed instantly, but in the NT they would have been given a chance to repent, yes. That's one of the major differences in the two times. Jesus died so that we as humans would have a chance to correct the wrongs that we do by praying for forgiveness.

 

[dt3]

In the OT yes, they would have been killed instantly, but in the NT they would have been given a chance to repent, yes. That's one of the major differences in the two times. Jesus died so that we as humans would have a chance to correct the wrongs that we do by praying for forgiveness.

So, taking quotes from the OT and applying them to the Christian God, wouldn't be very fair right? To say that he hates homosexuals today would be inaccurate. He basically "changed" for lack of a better word when Jesus died on the cross.

 

[boxer810]

So, taking quotes from the OT and applying them to the Christian God, wouldn't be very fair right? To say that he hates homosexuals today would be inaccurate. He basically "changed" for lack of a better word when Jesus died on the cross.

It's hard to apply ANY of those laws to today's times, truth be told, because we cannot fathom a world where people are actually held accountable for EVERYTHING that they do....it just isn't done anymore. If we lived now the way they did then, there would be a hell of a lot of bodies to be burying.....


But I see what you're saying. Yes, it would be somewhat unfair to take OT laws and apply them today, HOWEVER....it still states that a homosexual will go to hell if they do not repent before they die.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

*Ahem*

Donnie, would you be so kind enough so as to give Boxer a chance to answer my questions/comment. Getting a complex now. :ninja

Here, I shall re-post for easy reference:

Boxer posted to my comment:

Originally Posted by boxer810
Total contradiction!

Either you take the Bible only figuratively, or you take it completely literally.....which one??

Hold on, let me edit this....

What I mean is, you cannot take certain parts literally and certain parts figuratively.....it just doesn't work that way. It has to be one way or the other.

I responded and included some brainteasers:

I am putting it to you that despite you growing up in a very religious family, that your Father was a minister, and your step-mother was a Sunday School teacher AND a minister, and that you have read the Bible many times over, many different texts, etc, that you are wrong....and that there are many theological scholars that would disagree with you.

Ok, for argument sake let's look at things "literally":
__________________
"Let the rivers clap their hands, let the hills sing for joy together before the Lord"
Psalm 98:8

Do rivers have hands? Do hills sing? If you know of any that do, please let me know.
__________________

Jesus took bread and said, "Take and eat; this is my body" (Matthew 26:26).

Did Jesus Christ intend for this statement to be taken literally?
_____________________

"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out," (Matthew 5:29)
____________________

Answer these questions and we may continue. Looking forward to your responses.

And now anxiously awaiting a response in order to continue. :ninja

Thank you.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

*Ahem*

Boxer?....tick tock tick tock :ninja

 

[boxer810]

*Ahem*

Donnie, would you be so kind enough so as to give Boxer a chance to answer my questions/comment. Getting a complex now. :ninja

Here, I shall re-post for easy reference:

Boxer posted to my comment:
I responded and included some brainteasers:

I am putting it to you that despite you growing up in a very religious family, that your Father was a minister, and your step-mother was a Sunday School teacher AND a minister, and that you have read the Bible many times over, many different texts, etc, that you are wrong....and that there are many theological scholars that would disagree with you.

Ok, for argument sake let's look at things "literally":
__________________
"Let the rivers clap their hands, let the hills sing for joy together before the Lord"
Psalm 98:8

Do rivers have hands? Do hills sing? If you know of any that do, please let me know.
__________________

Jesus took bread and said, "Take and eat; this is my body" (Matthew 26:26).

Did Jesus Christ intend for this statement to be taken literally?
_____________________

"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out," (Matthew 5:29)
____________________

Answer these questions and we may continue. Looking forward to your responses.

And now anxiously awaiting a response in order to continue. :ninja

Thank you.

I see where you're going with this.....

Obviously there are some things in the Bible that cannot be taken literally. My apologies. BUT, have no doubt that the punishments and laws that were being spoken of were to be taken literally. Do you see what I'm saying?

 

[dt3]

It's hard to apply ANY of those laws to today's times, truth be told, because we cannot fathom a world where people are actually held accountable for EVERYTHING that they do....it just isn't done anymore. If we lived now the way they did then, there would be a hell of a lot of bodies to be burying.....


But I see what you're saying. Yes, it would be somewhat unfair to take OT laws and apply them today, HOWEVER....it still states that a homosexual will go to hell if they do not repent before they die.

It says that anyone who doesn't repent will go to hell. Straight, gay, asexual, it doesn't matter. That's why I don't like people saying the Bible is anti-gay. It did say that, then God "changed" in the NT. And the NT never singles out gays to my knowledge.

 

[boxer810]

It says that anyone who doesn't repent will go to hell. Straight, gay, asexual, it doesn't matter. That's why I don't like people saying the Bible is anti-gay. It did say that, then God "changed" in the NT. And the NT never singles out gays to my knowledge.

I only said homosexuals because that was a big thing in the other posts....ANYONE AT ALL that has not been saved, baptised, or repented will go to hell. I never said that the Bible was anti-gay.....it's anti-SIN.

 

[dt3]

I only said homosexuals because that was a big thing in the other posts....ANYONE AT ALL that has not been saved, baptised, or repented will go to hell. I never said that the Bible was anti-gay.....it's anti-SIN.

I know what you said, but other's in here have said the Bible encourages homophobia and whatnot. My post really wasn't directed at you, my bad. Thanks for answering some of the things I wasn't too sure about.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

I see where you're going with this.....

Obviously there are some things in the Bible that cannot be taken literally. My apologies. BUT, have no doubt that the punishments and laws that were being spoken of were to be taken literally. Do you see what I'm saying?

Thank you. I see your point.

You spoiled my fun tho. I had all sorts of ammunition waiting for you in case you disagreed. You bubble buster you.

My point is that there are parts of the bible that are meant to be taken literally, as well as there are other parts that are meant to be taken figuratively, depending on the context, and some a combination of the two.

So when you hit me with you (generic) either had to take it literally OR figuratively ONLY, you were setting yourself up for me to hit you with my best shot...figuratively speaking. :ninja

 

[boxer810]

Thank you. I see your point.

You spoiled my fun tho. I had all sorts of ammunition waiting for you in case you disagreed. You bubble buster you.

My point is that there are parts of the bible that are meant to be taken literally, as well as there are other parts that are meant to be taken figuratively, depending on the context, and some a combination of the two.

So when you hit me with you (generic) either had to take it literally OR figuratively ONLY, you were setting yourself up for me to hit you with my best shot...figuratively speaking. :ninja

:24: I know I said it had to be taken one way or another, but I was assuming that everyone thought as I did....which I apologize for. Truth is, we really never will know what was done or not done back then, because everything that we believe is based purely on faith. So I guess it's who has faith in what things....

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

It's all good. Cheers.

 

[All Else Failed]

True. The Christian religion is supposed to preach forgiveness, and thus has no room for hatred.

sure it does. Most religions do.