How far is too far?

[dt3]

Grace directs stuff at everyone one with her "I'm better than you because I'm religious and how dare you disagree with my beliefs attitude".

She brings it upon herself, to be completely honest. I tried to be civil with her, but she always puts up this "poor old Christian mother grace" personae that gets so annoying someone needs to call her out on it.

Whatever, I'll try to be a good. Pinky swear.

Here's every post from this thread by Grace, except the on to Tim, which wasn't directed at either one of you. Show me "holier than thou" and "poor Grace" attitudes in any of them.


In this one, she answers the original question posed. If you didn't want someone's answer to the question, you shouldn't even be in this thread.

When my children are grown and gone and decide that they don't want to go to church anymore I would be upset and disappointed, but ultimately it is their path to walk. I have my own path and that is where my focus needs to be as it does with everyone or people just start judging instead of working on their own problems and sins and doing something about them because their focus is arrogantly on others instead of humbly upon their own wrongs. Our relationships with the Lord are personal.

I am merely the farmer planting seeds, and trying my best to be a good steward with the blessings (my children) that the good Lord bestowed upon me.

That said, I highly encourage my children to learn about all other religions. We value education in our home and learning about other religions and cultures helps us to love others through understanding; it helps us to talk more compassionately to others and demonstrate sincerity.

In this one, she's agreeing with somebody.

:clap :clap :clap :clap :clap

In this one, she's having a civil conversation with Maria about spirituality.

Actually, spirituality is looked at as one of the parts of a person's 'total wellness'.

And this one, oh my god, is a joke. I can tell because there's a smiley and an LOL.

I have the perfect answer here:

Have kids of your own and raise them as you see fit. In 30 years we'll compare kids.

LOL!

Where is anything like what you're both saying here?

 

[boxer810]

opcorn2:

 

[teh_fuzz]

I'm wondering...did their mother want them baptized, did you go along with that, if so? Does she take them to church now? Or do you want them to want to go before they actually go?

My wife is baptist, but she knows my side of the family is catholic.
I told her that I'm not going to baptism classes,if i am not interested in a religion. she could do whatever it is that baptists do, but i would rather not have any part of it.

My wife can take them now, if she so desires, but when they are of age to state their choice we have agreed that we will let them choose.

 

[All Else Failed]

Here's every post from this thread by Grace, except the on to Tim, which wasn't directed at either one of you. Show me "holier than thou" and "poor Grace" attitudes in any of them.


In this one, she answers the original question posed. If you didn't want someone's answer to the question, you shouldn't even be in this thread.


In this one, she's agreeing with somebody.


In this one, she's having a civil conversation with Maria about spirituality.


And this one, oh my god, is a joke. I can tell because there's a smiley and an LOL.


Where is anything like what you're both saying here?

I'm not saying she ALWAYS acts that way, but at times she can just be incredibly self righteous. I don't hate her....thats the last thing on my mind. I just think she comes off as it sometimes.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

Ganging up and harassing Grace for stating her point of view isn't the point of this thread, AEF.

While like Tim I found that post he commented on rather condescending, I just laughed it off because there is no way I'm going to change her mind.

I didn't like it because it makes her seem that "Hey, I'm right. This is 100% the right way and I am making no mistakes at all with my child, while your way is flawed and your children aren't going to be perfect angels when they grow up like mine are".

But thats just my take on her post, while I disagreed with it; I didn't want to comment on it to turn this thread into something it isn't.

 

[boxer810]

This is turning into a "they are picking on me" thread...

 

[All Else Failed]

right right well I'll behave now, lets move on.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

right right well I'll behave now, lets move on.

A non-existant hell just froze over. :willy_nilly:

 

[boxer810]

:24::24:

 

[All Else Failed]

A non-existant hell just froze over. :willy_nilly:

It did just get pretty chilly in my room.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Here's every post from this thread by Grace, except the on to Tim, which wasn't directed at either one of you. Show me "holier than thou" and "poor Grace" attitudes in any of them.


In this one, she answers the original question posed. If you didn't want someone's answer to the question, you shouldn't even be in this thread.


In this one, she's agreeing with somebody.


In this one, she's having a civil conversation with Maria about spirituality.


And this one, oh my god, is a joke. I can tell because there's a smiley and an LOL.


Where is anything like what you're both saying here?

:homo:

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Ganging up and harassing Grace for stating her point of view isn't the point of this thread, AEF.

While like Tim I found that post he commented on rather condescending, I just laughed it off because there is no way I'm going to change her mind.

I didn't like it because it makes her seem that "Hey, I'm right. This is 100% the right way and I am making no mistakes at all with my child, while your way is flawed and your children aren't going to be perfect angels when they grow up like mine are".

But thats just my take on her post, while I disagreed with it; I didn't want to comment on it to turn this thread into something it isn't.

Grace is firm in her conviction as she ought to be. AEF is also firm in his conviction. That's his right. It's all good.

The so called "condescending" post to which Tim had alluded has already been cleared up as being said in jest. See "smiley".

Two things, religion and politics, from since rolling stones was a pebble, have then and will always stir emotional reactions from parties involved. That's a fact.

 

[Maritxu]

While I hesitate to call her post condescending, I will say that it strongly speaks for Grace's POV that we all know, that living in a religious environment may help instill morals that some children may not get in non-religious homes. She's passionate about her belief. So what? Counter her and claim children from non-religious backgrounds do just as well.

I will have to disagree. No matter how much I belive in God, I have seen more humanitarians and people who volunteer that are atheist that the opposite. I think not having a religion has very less to do with developing morals.

 

[Maritxu]

When I raise my kids, they will be raised atheists. I will teach them about other religions and beliefs, but from the perspective of that they are simply myths, and ancient ways that man used to make sense of a world they were mostly ignorant of.

I'll race my kids to care about other human beings. Won't go too far from there

 

[Dodge_Sniper]

Thats not very Christ-like of you, Grace.

:24::24: Rep'd!

A non-existant hell just froze over. :willy_nilly:

:24::24: I owe you rep for this one

As I've already said, I was forced to go to church as a child. Now, I don't think it resulted in my not being very religious now, but it did help. I don't think anybody should have any religion forced upon then, Christianity or not. Hell, I remember going to church and always sleeping or playing a GameBoy because I was bored to death. No matter what religion it is, you shouldn't ever force it upon your children.

 

[Breath]

I will have to disagree. No matter how much I belive in God, I have seen more humanitarians and people who volunteer that are atheist that the opposite. I think not having a religion has very less to do with developing morals.

So you disagree with Grace, and not me, let's make that clear. I didn't state my view. I stated what I thought Grace's POV might be.

 

[Maritxu]

So you disagree with Grace, and not me, let's make that clear. I didn't state my view. I stated what I thought Grace's POV might be.

If your post is what Grace meant, then yes, I disagree with it.

 

[GraceAbounds]

I have the perfect answer here:

Have kids of your own and raise them as you see fit. In 30 years we'll compare kids.

LOL!

I'd like to clear up this post for the many in this thread that have misinterpreted it.

First off, contrary to popular belief around here, Christians have a sense of humor too.

Secondly, my post is suggesting that we all have kids of our own -
examples:
Christians raising Christians
Jews raising Jews
Atheists raising Atheists
Wiccans raising Wiccans
Mormons raising Mormons
Humanists raising Humanists
or Whoever raising Whoever (you get the picture)
.... and then in 30 years we all get together and compare our kids what you will find is a child raised as a Christian but no longer a Christian as an adult, a Jew raised as a Jew but is now Wiccan, a Atheist raised as an Atheist but is now a Christian, etc. etc. etc.

Point being is that we are parents and if we are parents that truly love our children we are going to try to instill morals and values that we believe are right and true in them. We are not all going to raise all of our children the same.

So in 30 years, even though we have tried to guide our children the best we know how, they are the ones who ultimately have to decide on what their spirituality is; they are the ones that have to decide what direction they are going to take in life.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, the comparing our kids in 30 years part was in jest because in 30 years it will not be what WE do that counts (we can only hope and pray that our guidance makes a difference) - But in 30 years what will count is what THEY DO ..... and that will be to their credit ... not ours.

If calling me names like 'holier than thou' or 'self righteous' makes people feel better, go right ahead. I know my heart, who I am, and what I am about and I will make no apologies for it. I am human and I am not perfect. I make mistakes and just because I am Christian does not mean I am without sin or that I don't get angry. I do. So if you are looking for someone that is perfect - don't look to me. And for the record - I am far from thinking I am.

If you are looking for someone that truly cares about people and the horrible trials and losses we all go through as human beings then yep - that is who I am. If you don't want to believe that about me. That's ok too. Use me as someone to talk about, it will save someone else with thinner skin from being gossiped about. I can live with that just fine.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Very well said Grace. Repped.

 

[IntruderLS1]

I'm seeing a recurring problem in the thread. It is assumed that "forcing" your children to attend church is the same thing as "forcing" them to believe in your religion.

In my opinion, you cannot force anybody to believe anything. Small children do not have the life experience to make decisions for themselves very well, and will default to what they have been taught. There is a time in all of our lives though, which the Christian Bible refers to as the age of accountability, when you become able to choose for yourself. This is the day you finally grasp what's going on around you, and spiritually become responsible for your own actions.

Tim and AEF were both raised Christian, and when they became old enough to decide for themselves, they converted (for lack of a better word).

Parents need to communicate with their children on levels that match the maturity level of that child. I personally believe in sharing many points of view with kids. In doing so, you're going to have to explain why you have made the choices you have made, and as such, why you feel it is your responsibility as a parent to raise them in that direction.

If your 16 year old doesn't want to go to church anymore, I think it is the right of the parent to force the issue. It should be explained though that even if they don't believe what the preacher is saying, church is a family function, and they are expected to be an active member of the family. Any punishment for not attending should be given on the basis of disobedience to the parent, not disobedience to the church.

Going to church has many secondary positives beyond the primary of learning about the faith. Even if the child hates church it should be a positive life experience. As adults, we all have to do things we don't want to do. It takes responsibility to do these things. I was "forced" to wash dishes as a kid. I hated every second of it for 10 years. Here I am as an adult though, and I'm still washing dishes. If I had never had to clean a day in my life, chances are I would have lived in my own filth for however many years it took to find the truth my parents gave me through chores.

Other positives are going to be choice of friends. Psychology classes (and I'm sure Mari can expand on this) taugh me that the most important factor in the forming of relationships is proximity. I'm not saying church kids are angels, and non-church kids are demons, but what I am saying, is that in GENERAL, there are going to be fewer bad influences to choose from out of the friend pool. There is going to be a higher average of engaged parents and strong families.

I don't believe in sheltering a child 100% from the world. I think the preachers kid syndrome is probably linked directly to overprotection as a young adult. If you have never been exposed to sex, drugs, or rock & roll, you won't be equipped to handle it when you finally leave your parents house. Practical education is crucial.

To what happened with Grace... This is sad. It was obviously said with tongue in cheek. Her words were twisted, and people who already have a beef with her ran with it. Tim is an excellent communicator. He has a keen ability to push the buttons he's looking to push. We all get upset when we're treated with dis-respect. There are examples in this very thread of several offenders.

The idea that Christians are somehow not allowed to get angry isn't based in reality. Jesus himself went ape style on some crooked money changers back in the day. Probably the first time in history "Jesus Christ" was used as an expletive! :jk

I think the fact that everybody is surprised to see her defend herself speaks volumes in the positive. If I, or AEF, or Pete decided to land some hard blows, nobody would notice.