What is this nations fascination with fire arms?

[Guyzerr]

Ever been carjacked?
I sure as hell won't be.
Wanna know why?
Cause I'm getting a license to carry a gun as soon as I turn 21.

I have looked down the barrel from the wrong side, both a rifle and a pistol.
I have faced bad guys with knives.
I have faced bad guys with clubs.
I have faced bad guys and neither of us had a weapon.

Despite all that and not having a gun in hand I'm still alive.

That said, it's easy to sit back and say when I'm 21 I'll be gettin' me a license to pack some heat but when push comes to shove would you be able to maintain your composure and actually use it the way you should? Before you answer ask yourself how many times your life has been in mortal danger and how you've managed to handle the situation. It's amazing how many people freeze or panic when push comes to shove.

I asked myself that many times and don't really have an answer. I'm a hell of a lot older than you and I can say with certainty that my life has been threatened many more times than yours. I have also been in many one on one, two on one battles and I'm not sure I could ever pull the trigger on another human being if I was faced with that decision and given the time to react.

I do know one thing for a fact and that is I'll never be faced with that decision because of the laws in Canada and for that I'm grateful. I also don't fear walking down any street at night in Canada. Unfortunately I can't say the same for your country which btw I've traveled extensivily.

 

[nova]

If your reasoning is correct there wouldn't be any real need to " carry " off ones property then. So why do so many of your states allow the carrying of a weapon outside their home and off their property? To beat them to the crunch so to speak?

The natural right to self defense does not end at your property line...

I have a license to carry a concealed weapon and I use it to carry a Smith and Wesson M&P9C everywhere but work.

To get my license required me to submit to an extensive background check with my local sheriff's department and show that I was neither a criminal or mentally defective.

Carrying my pistol on my person provides me with the tools necessary to defend myself and my family in just about any situation.

 

[Guyzerr]

Well that's just dumb.
If and when I own a gun, if I have a family with children, I would keep it in a gun cabinet bedside. Loaded and ready. Why the hell would you separate the bullets from the gun?

Because the laws in Canada were as such at the time I owned my guns.

 

[nova]

That said, it's easy to sit back and say when I'm 21 I'll be gettin' me a license to pack some heat but when push comes to shove would you be able to maintain your composure and actually use it the way you should? Before you answer ask yourself how many times your life has been in mortal danger and how you've managed to handle the situation. It's amazing how many people freeze or panic when push comes to shove.

Thats where proper technique and most importantly proper practice comes in. I've practiced drawing my weapon enough that I no longer have to think about it, its all muscle memory. Muscle memory is also the reason I can draw and double tap two rounds into a 2" circle from 20 feet

I have also been in many one on one, two on one battles and I'm not sure I could ever pull the trigger on another human being if I was faced with that decision and given the time to react.

Then you're the last person who needs to be carrying a weapon. If you don't have the guts to use it when your life or family's life is in jeopardy then you probably are better off betting your safety on the criminal being gracious enough to spare you.

Not everyone has what it takes to take personal responsibility for their own safety and well being...

I do know one thing for a fact and that is I'll never be faced with that decision because of the laws in Canada and for that I'm grateful.

Glad you're happy being prohibited from defending your life from those who would do you harm...

I also don't fear walking down any street at night in Canada. Unfortunately I can't say the same for your country which btw I've traveled extensivily.

Whoopty do, Canada may be safer but it has little or nothing to with availability of firearms. Neither overall crime rate nor violent crime rate have been consistently correlated with availability of firearms, but have been consistently correlated with many other factors...

 

[Guyzerr]

The natural right to self defense does not end at your property line...

I have a license to carry a concealed weapon and I use it to carry a Smith and Wesson M&P9C everywhere but work.

To get my license required me to submit to an extensive background check with my local sheriff's department and show that I was neither a criminal or mentally defective.

Carrying my pistol on my person provides me with the tools necessary to defend myself and my family in just about any situation.

It isn't law abiding people like you that give me the jitters. It's the bad guys and how they get their guns off the good guys.

The CBC ( Canadian Broadcasting Co ) has received world acclaim on many of the documentaries they've produced over the decades and one in particular comes to mind every time I see this right to gun debate rear it's ugly head. In that story they followed the trail of one pistol that was originally sold to a law abiding citizen of your country that managed to have his gun stolen. They went back in time until it ended up being used in a crime in Montreal I believe. From the time it was sold in some southern state to the Montreal incident it was used to kill 3 people. Montreal had the 4th death from that one weapon.

Most guns that end up in Canada were originally sold in your country and using most Americans logic I'm sure good folk bought 'em the first time around.

 

[Guyzerr]

a) You live in Canada, correct? Well I live in Houston. Biiiiiiiig difference. It's pretty goddamn hardcore down here. The houses on the end of the street regularly hears gunshots at night. Where I live is close to the border of n*****ville, USA and suburbia.

Um...... Canada can be quite hardcore as well. matter of fact about 10 years ago my mother had a gun stuck toi the side of her head as she was entering the main door of her apartment. Like I said I've faced them as well, under different circumstances but faced them none the less.

b) A valid point, and I cannot answer that question until I have had such an experience, but can it hurt to have one? The more tools you have to get the job done the better your chances. Why restrict yourself just because you're not sure you will be able to handle yourself correctly. What if I do happen to be a very composed, calm, methodical person, but I don't have a gun. Where will not having one get me?

Be resourceful like me. A little luck helps as well. The best advise is don't ever play the fucking hero.... ever. Not in talk or real life.

c) Oy, I can sure as hell say that I'd be scared to walk the streets here at 8:00 p.m. unless you're in a gated neighborhood. Different conditions call for different actions.

That's one of my points. If there were less guns in your country you might just be a bit safer. Canada has proven that... Brittan has proven that... many countries have proven that.

btw... my yard in the country is gated. Gawd I love my electric gate. :clap

 

[Guyzerr]

Ah, okay I see now.
That's somewhat counterproductive.

Yes and no. We have a hell of a lot less deaths from gunfire per capita than your country will ever hope for.

It is one of the reasons I sold all my stuff though.

 

[nova]

It isn't law abiding people like you that give me the jitters. It's the bad guys and how they get their guns off the good guys.

The CBC ( Canadian Broadcasting Co ) has received world acclaim on many of the documentaries they've produced over the decades and one in particular comes to mind every time I see this right to gun debate rear it's ugly head. In that story they followed the trail of one pistol that was originally sold to a law abiding citizen of your country that managed to have his gun stolen. They went back in time until it ended up being used in a crime in Montreal I believe. From the time it was sold in some southern state to the Montreal incident it was used to kill 3 people. Montreal had the 4th death from that one weapon.

Most guns that end up in Canada were originally sold in your country and using most Americans logic I'm sure good folk bought 'em the first time around.

Entirely meaningless. Its an item that the criminal element wants and thus they will have them regardless of whether they steal them from us, smuggle them in from the Chinese or even make weapons in their garage.

In a free society you can not eliminate goods for which there is a demand. The black market will always come through. Same as with drugs or any other contraband...

Check out some of the weapons the Chechens managed to homebrew to fight the Russians...

English Russia » Chechen Self-Made Weapons

Or how about the weapons made in the Khyber pass of Pakistan

Guns of the Khyber Pass « Innocent Bystanders

I could pick up everything I need to make a crude pistol or rifle in a single trip to the hardware store. Gimme some simple machine tools and I'd start turning out some pretty good pieces in short order.

So don't go thinking that getting us to give up our weapons is going to magically make them disappear out of criminals hands. Criminals will find a way to get what they want.

 

[Guyzerr]

Thats where proper technique and most importantly proper practice comes in. I've practiced drawing my weapon enough that I no longer have to think about it, its all muscle memory. Muscle memory is also the reason I can draw and double tap two rounds into a 2" circle from 20 feet

I can see how punching holes in paper is akin to putting a few slugs in someones chest. Yes I can. What a pile of horse shit.

Then you're the last person who needs to be carrying a weapon. If you don't have the guts to use it when your life or family's life is in jeopardy then you probably are better off betting your safety on the criminal being gracious enough to spare you.

Can you not read or is it that you choose to skip over stuff. I said I faced weapons and I've never had to beg for my life. Have you ever stared down the wrong end of a barrel and if so why didn't you shoot the fucker? Guts or lack thereof has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Not everyone has what it takes to take personal responsibility for their own safety and well being...

And that's my point. Unless you've faced that situation you'll never know. That includes you.

Glad you're happy being prohibited from defending your life from those who would do you harm...

There you go... trying to put words in my mouth again. It ain't gunna work. Nice try though.

Whoopty do, Canada may be safer but it has little or nothing to with availability of firearms. Neither overall crime rate nor violent crime rate have been consistently correlated with availability of firearms, but have been consistently correlated with many other factors...

You make those statement based on what? American stats. :24::24::24:

Then explain to me why Canada is safer if it isn't due to less guns. I can't wait to hear it.

 

[nova]

That's one of my points. If there were less guns in your country you might just be a bit safer. Canada has proven that... Brittan has proven that... many countries have proven that.

Canada and Britain haven't proven anything. You're ignoring the fact that (as far as I can ascertain) Canada and Britain both have always had lower murder rates than the US, even before both countries enacted draconian gun control.

When the rate has always been lower you can't draw the conclusion that "we're safer because we're disarmed."

 

[nova]

I can see how punching holes in paper is akin to putting a few slugs in someones chest. Yes I can. What a pile of horse shit.

Considering its the same type of practice the police do and they don't take shots at real people to "prepare them" I think I'm as well prepared as any human being can be.

Can you not read or is it that you choose to skip over stuff. I said I faced weapons and I've never had to beg for my life. Have you ever stared down the wrong end of a barrel and if so why didn't you shoot the fucker? Guts or lack thereof has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I read it, and all it means is you've gotten lucky. In far too many cases, Joe Thugg is not gracious enough to let their victims live for whatever reason.

And yes I have been on the wrong end as well. The reason I didn't shoot them is I was only 19, not eligible for a carry permit due to age and thus unarmed. It was the primary impetus for me getting my carry permit, because like you, I got lucky that I'm not pushing daisies...

And that's my point. Unless you've faced that situation you'll never know. That includes you.

See above...

There you go... trying to put words in my mouth again. It ain't gunna work. Nice try though.

You said it. Not in those exact words but you said it. If you're happy to not "have to make that decision" then by default you are happy to be disarmed...

You make those statement based on what? American stats. :24::24::24:

Then explain to me why Canada is safer if it isn't due to less guns. I can't wait to hear it.

You're violent crime rate and murder rate have always been lower than ours, pretty much since stats have been taken. If its always been lower, you can't really draw the conclusion the law has made you safer than us, because you've always been safer than us....

 

[All Else Failed]

Gun debates are so boring.


Guns are cool


guns are fun


leftists can line up against the brick wall while I load

 

[Guyzerr]

Because it's fucking Canada.

Is Canada full of illegal immigrants that come to the country to slang coke and pot? No siree.

I live in the drug war capital of Canada. A place where they are killing each other like flies. You need to do some learnin' before you shoot your mouth off.

There's your answer.

Canada is like the gated neighborhood of North America. Mexico is the ghetto, and America is the suburbia that's on the border of the ghetto.

Your age, inexperience and ignorance of Canada is starting to shine like the North Star.

 

[GuesSAngel]

Well that's just dumb.
If and when I own a gun, if I have a family with children, I would keep it in a gun cabinet bedside. Loaded and ready. Why the hell would you separate the bullets from the gun?

its a extra precaution when you have kids in the home

education is the key for children. we have bullets in the clip, which is now in the gun...would take us 2 seconds to load one in the chamber.

 

[MoonOwl]

​

:24: NuffSaid!!!!

 

[nova]

You make those statement based on what? American stats. :24::24::24:

Then explain to me why Canada is safer if it isn't due to less guns. I can't wait to hear it.

And just as an addendum, Switzerland is one of the most heavily armed countries in the world and has private firearm ownership rates approaching that of the US. The Swiss are also some of the most active shooters in the world, holding the worlds largest shooting competition (200,000+ people attended last year) among other regular events.


Funny thing Switzerland also has a lower overall murder rate than dear old Canada and a firearm murder rate only slightly higher than Canada.

So, using your logic, liberal gun laws and ownership is making them safer.

Or more likely there are other things going on unrelated to availability of weaponry...

 

[Zorak]

And just as an addendum, Switzerland is one of the most heavily armed countries in the world and has private firearm ownership rates approaching that of the US. The Swiss are also some of the most active shooters in the world, holding the worlds largest shooting competition (200,000+ people attended last year) among other regular events.


Funny thing Switzerland also has a lower overall murder rate than dear old Canada and a firearm murder rate only slightly higher than Canada.

So, using your logic, liberal gun laws and ownership is making them safer.

Or more likely there are other things going on unrelated to availability of weaponry...

So in that case, if the Swiss gun laws are like americans, and the swiss love their guns as much as americans... How do you explain the difference in gun crime rates?

Maybe the Swiss are just lousy shots so nothing gets reported :24:

 

[nova]

So in that case, if the Swiss gun laws are like americans, and the swiss love their guns as much as americans... How do you explain the difference in gun crime rates?

Maybe the Swiss are just lousy shots so nothing gets reported :24:

The Swiss are excellent shots actually. The produce some of the top shooters in the world.

I don't have an explanation though, other than crime rates are dependant upon many other things other than availability of weaponry.

Correlation is not causation, but if you have no correlation you can't have causation.

To put it in perspective even more, every swiss male of fighting age is required to keep their fully automatic assualt rifle in their home along with ~100 rounds of ammunition for use in the militia. And yet there's no mass spray and pray shootings oddly enough.

As a contrast, I have to go through a 90 day background check including fingerprint analysis and pay a $200 transfer tax in order to own a full auto weapon, and even then I can only own weaponry made and registered before May of 1986 that start @ $5000 and go up...

 

[Zorak]

The Swiss are excellent shots actually. The produce some of the top shooters in the world.

I don't have an explanation though, other than crime rates are dependant upon many other things other than availability of weaponry.

Correlation is not causation, but if you have no correlation you can't have causation.

To put it in perspective even more, every swiss male of fighting age is required to keep their fully automatic assualt rifle in their home along with ~100 rounds of ammunition for use in the militia. And yet there's no mass spray and pray shootings oddly enough.

As a contrast, I have to go through a 90 day background check including fingerprint analysis and pay a $200 transfer tax in order to own a full auto weapon, and even then I can only own weaponry made and registered before May of 1986 that start @ $5000 and go up...

Yeah, my mate is half-Swiss and we're always having a good laugh at the ridiculous laws.

Swiss nationals have it bloody good I tell you what, and I know all about the nazi gold.... :surrender:24:

 

[Zorak]

Statistics aren't the be all and end all.

Give me 15 minutes I'd provide those statistics for you, just as how if you give me another 15 minutes I could provide you with statistics that contradicted the previous statistics.

Any monkey can trawl through google to prove their point, especially now research grants are given out to those who will adhere to the hypothisis that the benefactor would agree with. Similarly, just because someone says they are conducted 'independant' research doesn't make it so.