What is the point of hating our troops?

[Tim]

Well yeah. If the want to scream about fags at a funeral and they get stomped on thats their fault. Although I wouldn't agree with any violence towards any party.

But if their hate speech is such that it will most likely incite violence, then it isn't protected speech.

Under the imminent lawless action test, speech is not protected by the First Amendment if it is likely to cause violation of the law more quickly than an officer of the law reasonably can be summoned.

So if the hate speech is so egregious as to incite violence (as in doing it beside the grave) then it is the duty of law enforcement to remove these people... they forfeited their freedom of speech at that time and place

 

[All Else Failed]

But if their hate speech is such that it will most likely incite violence, then it isn't protected speech.

Under the imminent lawless action test, speech is not protected by the First Amendment if it is likely to cause violation of the law more quickly than an officer of the law reasonably can be summoned.

So if the hate speech is so egregious as to incite violence (as in doing it beside the grave) then it is the duty of law enforcement to remove these people... they forfeited their freedom of speech at that time and place

Hate speech is pretty subjective though. Anything could incite violence. I would say the person attacking someone for saying something they don't agree with is infringing on their rights.

 

[GameCrazed]

Wow...another sad case of "I don't like it, so it's bad." And the worst part of it is that you try and justify it by interpreting words and ideas in the ways you see fit.

What if the signs on those protestors said, "Go bless us...everyone", would you feel the same way? I mean, it could disrupt the funeral services you know.

And whati s this inciting violence? What do you man by that exactly? I mean, what if I said The Pledge of Allegiance in Public? That's a current issue. Couldn't that just as easily "incite violence"?

What if I ate an Oreo in public? Oreos have sugar. Too much sugar over time can effect diabetes. Aren't I really just saying "Fuck the Jews, Niggers and Fags and praise Hitler"? Could you prove that I wasn't?

And where do we end the feedom of speech? What if I yelled "Fire!" in a movie theatre? What if I yelled "Please give me a hug?" Couldn't both create and equally deadly stampede? Could you prove otherwise?

What if anyone could say anytihng? What if I could say, "I'm going to kill the President"? Would it make the world any worse? Truly?

 

[dt3]

The fact that this argument is still going is pathetic.

 

[Mrs Behavin]

The fact that this argument is still going is pathetic.

:homo: 11 pages later :smiley24:

 

[Peter Parka]

I just can't get over the fact that people think these morons should be protected by the law and allowed to protest in this way. Some people have some really fucked up ideas.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

This is priceless.
(The debate continues):

On the subject of funerals. Why should a grieving family have to deal with some Modern day Hippie voicing their messed up beliefs at that point. I have a question for you. Do you have any one in your family who serve in the Military? If so How would you feel Knowing that these people are out there voicing thier believes near your dead relatives funeral?

AEF counters:

Lets get one things straight: Voicing opposition to the war or the troops doesn't make you a "modern day hippie". It just makes you a person with an opinion.

I do have people in my family that are serving. My dad is retired military of 25 years in Vietnam. If I saw people near the funeral, I would be mad but at the same time you can't let your emotions get the best of you, its their right.

Food for thought?:

LMAO! You think people inciting hatred at funerals is less ugly???

BBC NEWS | Politics | Disabled hate crime law planned

This is the laws we have and that are coming into force in the UK. No ones democracy is affected at all unless they are a racist, gay bashing bully and I personally don't see anything wrong with stopping people running around in public loudly putting these views across and offending peaceful citizens who can't avoid them.

The ever vigilant AEF counters:

Actually, they people that that law effects are having their right limited.

No, I think it would get ugly if you have a small group of people (the government) deciding what is and isn't ok to say in public.

How bout this?:

Wishing harm and believing that it is best for it. Yes I consider that treason.

Back at ya:

Do you think its treason if I say we will not succeed in Iraq?

No but it would be if you worded it different . Like. I hope we do not succeed in Iraq, and we lose alot more men and women. Or we deseve to fail.

Listen here:

I couldn't give a shit and think it's right they have their rights limited if they are abusing them. Like I said before, I respect peaceful peoples right to be left alone over the rights of homophobes and racists. I really do wonder why you value the rights of people preaching homophobia and racism above the rights of peaceful people seeing that your attitude about homophobia and racism expressed many times on this forum says you think it's wrong?

call me cRaZy, but I don't even think that is treason. I think its very mean spirited, though.

To me, treason is trying to actively subvert your country (sabotage, assassinations, bombings etc etc). Words spoken by a few nut cases isn't doing that.

Hold the press:

wait, I read what you posted wrong, my bad. I do support legislation that protects people from discrimination. I just don't think this whole funeral thing is discrimination, though.

Hey cRaZy, love to stay....but:

I would love to stay here and debate this all night with you. But I have to go out side and Lower my American flag and fold it before it gets dark here. So Gad bless America and everyone in it. Especially the ones serving for it......... And peace out Peter.

God bless our nation:

I have an upside down American flag in my room. It always stays up! haha ; ^ *

(meaning I think my country is in distress, of course)

C'mon now!...dayuuum!...Ok, look...definition:

So you honestly don't see that calling Gay people fags and waving placards around in the streets with homophobic messages on it is discrimination? Wow, you really have a completely different view of the meaning of the word discrimination than the one I've been brought up with!

"Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice" - Thats the definition in the English dictionary, is it wrong?

Wrong...Just a misunderstanding:

Thats not discrimination, its just being a complete moron. You misunderstand me.

"Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice"

^^^ They are talking about denying somehting like a job to a person based on their attributes. Like lets say, a black person being denied service at a restaurant, or a gay person being denied a job because he is gay. THAT is discrimination. Someone protesting with somehting written on a sign isn't doing that. I do think its really backwards and stupid of them to do it, though.

Look........

"Treatment or CONSIDERATION based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice"

Calling someone a fag and saying that homosexuality is wrong is a condisideration!

AEF counters:

I think calling someone a fag is in very poor taste, and makes you look like a fool, but its not discrimination, since they are talking about things like consideration for a job or something to that effect. People that call gay people fags are just Neanderthals that shouldn't be taken seriously.

Okie dokie then.......

So you think the dictionary is poor at wording things then? Prove that it's only talking about consideration for a job or something then? I honest think it's highly unlikely that the English dictionary has been worded poorly!

Warning ya: opcorn2:

You got whole night Pete? He's gonna try to prove it.:24:

As sure as the sun rises in the east:

I think you're misunderstanding what they mean by the definition.

They are talking about discrimination in the social setting. Where a person is actively denied something due to their physical or personal attributes. No one is denying anyone anything by having lewd signs.

Really????...then:

Prove it!

But......

...I just did by reading the definition.

*Ahem*:

No, you said your interpretation of it, that dosen't prove a thing.

Here comes teh Timmeh:

People have freedoms in this country and I'm very thankful for that. But you are forgetting one very important thing when it comes to free speech... Your freedom of speech ends once you infringe on someone else's freedoms...
You cannot incite a riot with your free speech, you cannot cause harm by your free speech (ordering someone to harm you) you cannot take my freedoms away with your free speech.... and I would argue that although these freaks are entitled to their hate speech, they are not entitled to do it at the funerals of the fallen soldiers. I would insist that they were far enough away as to not disrupt the proceedings. Because their right to free speech does not allow them to take away others rights..........

Ah hah...ketch yuh now:

Can you prove that it means what you think it means?

I think there should be somehting in place to have them at a certain distance, but I don't see what rights these protesters are depraving the funeral goers of?

Well....

You honestly don't believe that anyone should have the right to grieve in peace then??? But you do believe that people should be able to incite hatred wherever they please? You have some very strange priorities!!!

You misinterpreter you:

You're misinterpreting what the definition even said in the first place.

No you:

No you THINK I did. You are not right about everything AEF. Just because you said something, it dosen't mean it's right, sorry you can't grasp that.

Hey look:

"freedom of speech" guaranteed in the Constitution means freedom from goverment persecution. It does not guarantee freedom from the consequences of your actions.

AEF counters:

Well yeah. If the want to scream about fags at a funeral and they get stomped on thats their fault. Although I wouldn't agree with any violence towards any party.

Think about this then:

But if their hate speech is such that it will most likely incite violence, then it isn't protected speech.

Under the imminent lawless action test, speech is not protected by the First Amendment if it is likely to cause violation of the law more quickly than an officer of the law reasonably can be summoned.

So if the hate speech is so egregious as to incite violence (as in doing it beside the grave) then it is the duty of law enforcement to remove these people... they forfeited their freedom of speech at that time and place

AEF counters:

Hate speech is pretty subjective though. Anything could incite violence. I would say the person attacking someone for saying something they don't agree with is infringing on their rights.

Hey AEF, ever thought about going into politics?

 

[UncleBacon]

I have an upside down American flag in my room. It always stays up! haha ; ^ *



(meaning I think my country is in distress, of course)

get the fuck out...holy shit...I can't believe this was over looked...people like you make me sick to my stomache...you obviously hate it here but love to exploit the freedoms that are given to you from years of spilled blood of American soldiers and minute men...men and women that deserve our up most respect...now you claim that your father is a Vietnam vet...I bet if he saw 1/2 the shit you have posted on this forum he would whip your fucking ass all over the place...its sad that people like you exist in this country...everything this country stands for you are against except for being able to run your mouth recklessly and foolishly...I would love to see you voice your opinions like you do here to a group of soldiers and or civilians...honestly I don't think you have the balls to do it I think you say everything you say here because you know you protected behind a computer in the confines of your room...I think you are a coward

 

[UncleBacon]

"I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees..." General Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919


even if it is coming from a mexican general you will never understand what that really means because you will never get off your knees

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

"I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees..." General Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919


even if it is coming from a mexican general you will never understand what that really means because you will never get off your knees

*(((TWEEET)))*

Foul. Low blow.

 

[skyblue]

But what else is there? Without all of the soldiers that have served America we would be English if we were alive at all and even then we would have the English military protecting us.

and that would be bad?

 

[All Else Failed]

get the fuck out...holy shit...I can't believe this was over looked...people like you make me sick to my stomache...you obviously hate it here but love to exploit the freedoms that are given to you from years of spilled blood of American soldiers and minute men...men and women that deserve our up most respect...now you claim that your father is a Vietnam vet...I bet if he saw 1/2 the shit you have posted on this forum he would whip your fucking ass all over the place...its sad that people like you exist in this country...everything this country stands for you are against except for being able to run your mouth recklessly and foolishly...I would love to see you voice your opinions like you do here to a group of soldiers and or civilians...honestly I don't think you have the balls to do it I think you say everything you say here because you know you protected behind a computer in the confines of your room...I think you are a coward

OMG SOMEONE THINKS DIFFERENTLY THAN YOU THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END.


Do you even know what an upside down flag means? Its not even disrespecting the flag, its simply a universal sign that you think your country is in distress, and I for one, think my country is in distress. So nope, I do not hate America, you simply overreacted.

Actually, my father agrees with most of what I say, even though he is a bit on the conservative side, and no, my father wouldn't hit me, he's whats called a "good parent". I talk like this around soldiers allllll the time, I have a few in my family. You know what? They agree with me. I would say the same things to your face as well. I predict you will respond to this and say something like "well I'll beat yo' hippie ass!", and when and if you do, it will just prove that YOU are the coward.


So stop and think for a moment, that just because someone doesn't wrap themselves in the flag every chance they get, doesn't mean that they "hate America". Conservatives LOVE to say that about people that disagree with them, nothing different here, really.

 

[All Else Failed]

*(((TWEEET)))*

Foul. Low blow.

Thats how he debates. it's rather funny.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Thats how he debates. it's rather funny.

He's tricky like dat. LOL.

 

[UncleBacon]

you prove in every post you make how much of a coward you are...to me you are the scum that is wrong with this country...I know what the upside down flag means and yes it can also be taken as a blatent form of disrespect which you you also do in just about every post you make...I'm done with this

 

[All Else Failed]

you prove in every post you make how much of a coward you are...to me you are the scum that is wrong with this country...I know what the upside down flag means and yes it can also be taken as a blatent for of disrespect which you you also do in just about every post you make...I'm done with this

But Bacon, I love you! Please don't let our differences come between us! <3

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

But Bacon, I love you! Please don't let our differences come between us! <3

AEF, you could well understand how he feels. He's in the military and of course he would not take kindly to the upside down flag thing. Is kind of a patriotic something.

Anyways, all the best to you two.

 

[All Else Failed]

AEF, you could well understand how he feels. He's in the military and of course he would not take kindly to the upside down flag thing. Is kind of a patriotic something.

Anyways, all the best to you two.

Never mind that, our love is on the line here!











(But yeah, I have that flag upside down for thinking my country is going to shit, not for some radical "I hate America" binge. Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.)

 

[Peter Parka]

Well at least AEFs flag thing is in the privacy of his own home not at a funeral! Personally I've never understood why people get so uptight about flag burning ect, it's just a bit of cloth, whatever it represents. I actually laugh when I see extremists on telly burning the Union Jack. It dosen't bother me but the're the ones who have paid good money for it, just to burn it, kind of pathetic really!

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Well at least AEFs flag thing is in the privacy of his own home not at a funeral! Personally I've never understood why people get so uptight about flag burning ect, it's just a bit of cloth, whatever it represents. I actually laugh when I see extremists on telly burning the Union Jack. It dosen't bother me but the're the ones who have paid good money for it, just to burn it, kind of pathetic really!

Tru dat he's doing it in the privacy of his home.

The flag thing. It's the symbolizing of what it represents I guess. Kind of sacred to most.