Were 9/11 detainee's children tortured by insects?

[sofia76]

My conclusions? Regarding 9/11, or regarding that particular memo?

I think that the powers that be knew something was going to happen around that date; there's too much evidence to the contrary. However, also think the powers that be *vastly8 underestimated what that thing would be. I think they expected it to be another USS Cole.

Regardless, the end result is going to be the same either way. I believe that that administration wanted into the ME for oil, and were very willing to do just about anything to get in there. Ergo, I was completely against the war from the start.

However, now that we have gone and invaded and wiped out the government and killed their leaders (WMD be damned) we can't exactly pull out now, we leave a power vacuum smack dab in the middle of the most instable geopolitical arena that this planet has seen in the history of it's existence.

So we need to stay in to fix the problem, most of which is our making. Last I checked, I dn't think we've found any weapons of mass destruction; note, I am not saying Saddam did not need to be removed. I am saying that the reason we went in there was an utter farce designed for us to get our hand on some oil, plain and simple.

You got another idea, I'd love to hear it, but as you can see, I've plainly done my research and my stance is set. I believe in what I believe in and whether or not you cotton to my beliefs doesn't really mean all that much to me, as neither one of is us the person with their hand on the trigger when comes to go time.

As for whether or not we put bugs on their kids legs for information, torture is torture. Being a woman, or for that matter a human being with any sense of moralistic virtue whatsoever, I think that any harm set towards a child is completlely over the wall and should be punished forthwith and stronglly so.

As for torture, I don't with it in general because I can't see the logic in it, but I know it goes on because my uncle fought in Vietnam and was tortured there and my grandfather fought in WWII and was tortured in that war. So I know it happens, but logically, it shouldnt' as the information is then going to be questioned.

After all, don't you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar?

 

[sofia76]

Now will you answer my question?

 

[KpAtch3s]

sshhhh..... Don't confuse others with facts... Remember, "they hate us for our Freedoms"..... It's the NeoCon way... Besides, all that 'torture' was really just 'college pranks'.... What are you, some kinda liberal or something?

Let us hope we can get back to when the United States of America did not Torture. We just sent them to nations that did.

*smacks self for once again :horse *

How is this any better than the US doing it's torture itself? Or, how about we just bring some Israeli specialists to do it for us on our own bases. Technically the US didn't do any torturing if we follow that train of thought.

Personally my mentality is "Frankly my dear, who gives a damn?" If the US feels they need to torture for the safety of American lives then so be it, whatever the methods may be. This includes those that may only be suspect of having information.

 

[kelvin070]

Now will you answer my question?

May I ask where you got that? Do you believe it's veracity?

Just curious, haven't really given it any thought, but I was reading that, and it didn't sound real to me.

I can't recall the source but its all over the internet. About its veracity - Can't tell you for sure if the figures are correct but he was water boarded for sure.

 

[SgtSpike]

So we need to stay in to fix the problem, most of which is our making. Last I checked, I dn't think we've found any weapons of mass destruction; note, I am not saying Saddam did not need to be removed. I am saying that the reason we went in there was an utter farce designed for us to get our hand on some oil, plain and simple.

I keep hearing the oil argument, but I still can't figure out exactly how us attacking Iraq helped gain us any oil... I mean, to me, if Iraq is an oil-producing country, and we invade, accidently destroying some oil-related machinery and disrupting operations, wouldn't that actually hamper our ability to acquire oil?

Please explain if you can help to clarify your argument on the matter. :thumbup

Personally my mentality is "Frankly my dear, who gives a damn?" If the US feels they need to torture for the safety of American lives then so be it, whatever the methods may be. This includes those that may only be suspect of having information.

I like your bluntness. And I agree.

 

[sofia76]

Can't tell you for sure if the figures are correct but he was water boarded for sure.

That sounds better.....

I mean, for all we know, and for we are ever going to know, he very may well have been wb'ed that many times. My point was simply not to believe everything you find on the internet. I don't know why, but that memo didn't look real to me.........

 

[sofia76]

Please explain if you can help to clarify your argument on the matter.

Yes I can. What part did you want clarified?

And I agree.

As do I.

 

[All Else Failed]

How is this any better than the US doing it's torture itself? Or, how about we just bring some Israeli specialists to do it for us on our own bases. Technically the US didn't do any torturing if we follow that train of thought.

Personally my mentality is "Frankly my dear, who gives a damn?" If the US feels they need to torture for the safety of American lives then so be it, whatever the methods may be. This includes those that may only be suspect of having information.

Congrats, you're no better than the people who leveled the twin towers.

 

[MoonOwl]

How is this any better than the US doing it's torture itself? Or, how about we just bring some Israeli specialists to do it for us on our own bases. Technically the US didn't do any torturing if we follow that train of thought.

Personally my mentality is "Frankly my dear, who gives a damn?" If the US feels they need to torture for the safety of American lives then so be it, whatever the methods may be. This includes those that may only be suspect of having information.

The "Jack Bauer" in me says start hacking off digits until they talk. I understand our nation has a history of torture and extradition/rendition so others do our 'dirty work'.

If half of what's come out is true, we've lowered ourselves.

I came across this quote:

"Torture exists to inflict pain and punishment on such a horrific scale that it terrorizes the target population. But fear is very tiring, and after the fear burns away, as it inevitably must, only rage remains."

When we 'torture' the NeoCon"College Pranks" way, we lower ourselves even further. Inciting the families of the innocent and not-so-innocent.

Thank you, no.

Because it's perfect to use it as much as possible when discussing accountability and the last administration, I'll ....:horse some more....

Cuz then there's stuff like this:

Raw Story » Ex-FBI agent: Waterboarding produced ‘no actionable intel’

and we :horse some more...

 

[SgtSpike]

Yes I can. What part did you want clarified?

I already did...

I keep hearing the oil argument, but I still can't figure out exactly how us attacking Iraq helped gain us any oil... I mean, to me, if Iraq is an oil-producing country, and we invade, accidently destroying some oil-related machinery and disrupting operations, wouldn't that actually hamper our ability to acquire oil?

So, clarification on how exactly the war in Iraq is an oil grab?

 

[Alien Allen]

The left spun it as an oil grab. I would like to see the evidence of that.

We did secure the area so the free flow of oil could be assured to continue.

There is nothing to show we were after the oil. That is the most absurd stance to take that falls flat in the face of the facts.

As to the WMD's I have no clue if they were there or not. But it sure as hell does not take a genius to realize that given the time frame involved before we attacked that things could get moved. It is not like there would be a massive stockpile.

Sadaam played chicken. I think he figured he could hide and wait things out and then the country would beg for him to come back. Unfortunately he was a really bad person and in the end was not very savvy.

 

[sofia76]

I already did...


So, clarification on how exactly the war in Iraq is an oil grab?

I just feel that it was. Can you give me a reason that we invaded Iraq?

There ARE no real reasons why we invaded Iraq.

Except oil.

Just my thoughts. Saddam, at the time, hadn't done anything to bring us down on him; true, he was a scumbag, but so is Kim Jong Il, and that guy is certifiable.

We had no business over there in the first place. The WMD was a trumped up charge to enable us to get troops over there. Notice how 1, no WMD were ever found and 2, nobody else on the planet except the UK backed us?

It's not that great a secret, and I am certainly not saying that it's true, for neither of us will ever know the real reasons behind it, but from an armchair perspective, as far as I am concerned, it's pretty simple.

 

[sofia76]

Sadaam played chicken. I think he figured he could hide and wait things out and then the country would beg for him to come back. Unfortunately he was a really bad person and in the end was not very savvy.

I agree and disagree, Allen, and it is very good to see you again.

Yes he was a bad person and his sons were even worse. But still doesn't make it okay for us to go over there and tell him how to run his country when we have children over here killing each other.

 

[Alien Allen]

I agree and disagree, Allen, and it is very good to see you again.

Yes he was a bad person and his sons were even worse. But still doesn't make it okay for us to go over there and tell him how to run his country when we have children over here killing each other.

I have not gone anywhere. I never left

What is going on her is not relevant to what happened over there and why we went. IMO

If you are going to use the argument that the money could be spent here then one could also say that all of the other money wasted given to foreign countries could support ourselves.

I think coverts should have taken him out. But then you would have had a couple of sons to also take out. How many Kurds and others needed to get slaughtered before it made sense to take Sadaam out?

An Iraq that is stable and not run by extremists is in everybodys benefit.

We are not there yet. But then the patience the left wants for us to live with Obamas bullshit suddenly is not part of the program when it comes to Iraq.

Getting late and trying to watch baseball so I gotta go but I will respond tomorrow.

 

[Minor Axis]

An Iraq that is stable and not run by extremists is in everybodys benefit.

That is the conservative excuse now for the Iraq War. It cost us way too much imo.

 

[KpAtch3s]

First I just want to put my 2 cents in on our reason for invading Iraq. To start with, we warned all nations that if they do not actively pursue terrorists within their borders the US would consider them to be a terrorist nation and therefore an enemy. This is Iraq's first mistake. Al Qaeda was known to exist within Iraqi borders. Secondly Iraq was believed to have WMD's as well. Though WMD's were never actually found, one can not say they were not moved out of the country as well. (Say Iran?)

Now lets all put on the perspective of believing these things existed within Iraq and we did nothing about it and somehow a nuclear bomb or biological weapon is detonated within the US borders. Imagine the uproar the surviving American's would have had at the administration for not taking action. I say better safe than sorry.

If this had actually happened to the US, I would hope that Iraq would be blown off the face of the earth with nothing left but a pit to the core of the earth.

Congrats, you're no better than the people who leveled the twin towers.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

The "Jack Bauer" in me says start hacking off digits until they talk. I understand our nation has a history of torture and extradition/rendition so others do our 'dirty work'.

If half of what's come out is true, we've lowered ourselves.

I came across this quote:

"Torture exists to inflict pain and punishment on such a horrific scale that it terrorizes the target population. But fear is very tiring, and after the fear burns away, as it inevitably must, only rage remains."

When we 'torture' the NeoCon"College Pranks" way, we lower ourselves even further. Inciting the families of the innocent and not-so-innocent.

Thank you, no.

Because it's perfect to use it as much as possible when discussing accountability and the last administration, I'll ....:horse some more....

Cuz then there's stuff like this:

Raw Story » Ex-FBI agent: Waterboarding produced ‘no actionable intel’

and we :horse some more...

I'm not arguing with the idea that there are better ways to get information. If they are, then use them. If they don't work, and the US feels there needs to be alternative methods then use them. IMO when it comes to my countries saftey (the USA) the ends will always justify the means. Therefore if that means torture, then by all means have at it. Now how's that patrism for ya?

Now that I'm sure I've just come across as extermist and dug a giant hole for myself, I'll stop here.

 

[Accountable]

Source: rawstory.com

Bush memos parallel claim 9/11 mastermind’s children were tortured with insects

Bush Administration memos released by the White House on Thursday provide new insight into claims that American agents used insects to torture the young children of alleged 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.*snip*

9-year-old Ahmehkhakhapetui abu Zippidydoodah alleged that she was mercilessly tortured countless times by CIA operatives dropping vicious trained frogs down the back of her dress. This continued day after day despite her pleas for them to stop. When notified, the teacher didn't even seem to care.

 

[sofia76]

I have not gone anywhere. I never left

What is going on her is not relevant to what happened over there and why we went. IMO

If you are going to use the argument that the money could be spent here then one could also say that all of the other money wasted given to foreign countries could support ourselves.

I think coverts should have taken him out. But then you would have had a couple of sons to also take out. How many Kurds and others needed to get slaughtered before it made sense to take Sadaam out?

An Iraq that is stable and not run by extremists is in everybodys benefit.

We are not there yet. But then the patience the left wants for us to live with Obamas bullshit suddenly is not part of the program when it comes to Iraq.

Getting late and trying to watch baseball so I gotta go but I will respond tomorrow.

Well, it's good to talk to you again then.

I do use the argument that money wasted or given to other foreign countries could be better spent here. I think that there are many things that need to be fixed inside our house before we go redecorating other's houses.

Yes, an Iraq that is stable and not run by extremists is in everyone's benefit.

But what about our children's averages on math scores? What about OUR economy, which doesn't seem to be doing so well, last I checked? What about our health care system, or our social secuirity system, or any one of a million different things?

Anyway, that's all irrelivant now. I don't tihnk we should have ever invaded, but now that we have invaded, I don't think we should leave until it's stable.

I have a funny feeling we could go back and forth on this all day and not change anybody's views on this.

It's early in the morning, but I have today and tomorrow off at least.

We'll see.

 

[sofia76]

9-year-old Ahmehkhakhapetui abu Zippidydoodah alleged that she was mercilessly tortured countless times by CIA operatives dropping vicious trained frogs down the back of her dress. This continued day after day despite her pleas for them to stop. When notified, the teacher didn't even seem to care.

Almost got me on that one.....

 

[MoonOwl]

I have a funny feeling we could go back and forth on this all day and not change anybody's views on this.

Hello Sofia76,

Politicians count on that fact. We distract ourselves w/Left vs Right, Right vs Wrong et al while all the while the sold out mess (BOTH sides of the Aisle) that is our government continues to gain more & more power.

It will continue until WePeeps realize this fact and work together. Which I doubt will happen. Heck, Republicans couldn't even get it together to vote for the smartest man in the room (Ron Paul). The one candidate who would have tried to put the needs of WePeeps first, second & third above all other nations or multi-national corporations. Instead he was labled a kook & a coward by the GOP establishment. That should have been everyone's clue to vote for him. But no...... ssdd.....

:horse:horse:horse

MO