I consider waterboarding as torture. My role here as far as this topic is concened is not so much defensive but to provide info. If there is any article which supports torture I will include that too.
Were 9/11 detainee's children tortured by insects?
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Accountable
Well-Known Member
uh huh.
Couldn't find any summarization of Chaney's speech, huh?
Couldn't find any summarization of Chaney's speech, huh?
If you hav any pertinent info just share with us pls.
Source: The Huffington Post
Former Senior Interrogator in Iraq Dissects Cheney's Lies and Distortions
As a senior interrogator in Iraq (and a former criminal investigator), there was a lesson I learned that served me well: there's more to be learned from what someone doesn't say than from what they do say. Let me dissect former Vice President Dick Cheney's speech on National Security using this model and my interrogation skills.
First, VP Cheney said, "This recruitment-tool theory has become something of a mantra lately... it excuses the violent and blames America for the evil that others do." He further stated, "It is much closer to the truth that terrorists hate this country precisely because of the values we profess and seek to live by, not by some alleged failure to do so." That is simply untrue. Anyone who served in Iraq, and veterans on both sides of the aisle have made this argument, knows that the foreign fighters did not come to Iraq en masse until after the revelations of torture and abuse at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay. I heard this from captured foreign fighters day in and day out when I was supervising interrogations in Iraq. What the former vice president didn't say is the fact that the dislike of our policies in the Middle East were not enough to make thousands of Muslim men pick up arms against us before these revelations. Torture and abuse became Al Qaida's number one recruiting tool and cost us American lives.
Secondly, the former vice president, in saying that waterboarding is not torture, never mentions the fact that it was the United States and its Allies, during the Tokyo Trials, that helped convict a Japanese soldier for war crimes for waterboarding one of Jimmie Doolittle's Raiders. Have our morals and values changed in fifty years? He also did not mention that George Washington and Abraham Lincoln both prohibited their troops from torturing prisoners of war. Washington specifically used the term "injure" -- no mention of severe mental or physical pain.
Thirdly, the former vice president never mentioned the Senate testimony of Ali Soufan, the FBI interrogator who successfully interrogated Abu Zubaydah and learned the identity of Jose Padilla, the dirty bomber, and the fact that Khalid Sheikh Mohammad (KSM) was the mastermind behind 9/11. We'll never know what more we could have discovered from Abu Zubaydah had not CIA contractors taken over the interrogations and used waterboarding and other harsh techniques. Also, glaringly absent from the former vice president's speech was any mention of the fact that the former administration never brought Osama bin Laden to justice and that our best chance to locate him would have been through KSM or Abu Zubaydah had they not been waterboarded.
In addition, in his continued defense of harsh interrogation techniques (aka torture and abuse), VP Cheney forgets that harsh techniques have ensured that future detainees will be less likely to cooperate because they see us as hypocrites. They are less willing to trust us when we fail to live up to our principles. I experienced this firsthand in Iraq when interrogating high-ranking members of Al Qaida, some of whom decided to cooperate simply because I treated them with respect and civility.
The former vice president is confusing harshness with effectiveness. An effective interrogation is one that yields useful, accurate intelligence, not one that is harsh. It speaks to a fundamental misunderstanding of interrogations, the goal of which is not to coerce information from a prisoner, but to convince a prisoner to cooperate.
Finally, the point that is most absent is that our greatest success in this conflict was achieved without torture or abuse. My interrogation team found Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, the former leader of Al Qaida in Iraq and murderer of tens of thousands. We did this using relationship-building approaches and non-coercive law enforcement techniques. These worked to great effect on the most hardened members of Al Qaida -- spiritual leaders who had been behind the waves of suicide bombers and, hence, the sectarian violence that swept across Iraq. We convinced them to cooperate by applying our intellect. In essence, we worked smarter, not harsher.
Former Senior Interrogator in Iraq Dissects Cheney's Lies and Distortions
As a senior interrogator in Iraq (and a former criminal investigator), there was a lesson I learned that served me well: there's more to be learned from what someone doesn't say than from what they do say. Let me dissect former Vice President Dick Cheney's speech on National Security using this model and my interrogation skills.
First, VP Cheney said, "This recruitment-tool theory has become something of a mantra lately... it excuses the violent and blames America for the evil that others do." He further stated, "It is much closer to the truth that terrorists hate this country precisely because of the values we profess and seek to live by, not by some alleged failure to do so." That is simply untrue. Anyone who served in Iraq, and veterans on both sides of the aisle have made this argument, knows that the foreign fighters did not come to Iraq en masse until after the revelations of torture and abuse at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo Bay. I heard this from captured foreign fighters day in and day out when I was supervising interrogations in Iraq. What the former vice president didn't say is the fact that the dislike of our policies in the Middle East were not enough to make thousands of Muslim men pick up arms against us before these revelations. Torture and abuse became Al Qaida's number one recruiting tool and cost us American lives.
Secondly, the former vice president, in saying that waterboarding is not torture, never mentions the fact that it was the United States and its Allies, during the Tokyo Trials, that helped convict a Japanese soldier for war crimes for waterboarding one of Jimmie Doolittle's Raiders. Have our morals and values changed in fifty years? He also did not mention that George Washington and Abraham Lincoln both prohibited their troops from torturing prisoners of war. Washington specifically used the term "injure" -- no mention of severe mental or physical pain.
Thirdly, the former vice president never mentioned the Senate testimony of Ali Soufan, the FBI interrogator who successfully interrogated Abu Zubaydah and learned the identity of Jose Padilla, the dirty bomber, and the fact that Khalid Sheikh Mohammad (KSM) was the mastermind behind 9/11. We'll never know what more we could have discovered from Abu Zubaydah had not CIA contractors taken over the interrogations and used waterboarding and other harsh techniques. Also, glaringly absent from the former vice president's speech was any mention of the fact that the former administration never brought Osama bin Laden to justice and that our best chance to locate him would have been through KSM or Abu Zubaydah had they not been waterboarded.
In addition, in his continued defense of harsh interrogation techniques (aka torture and abuse), VP Cheney forgets that harsh techniques have ensured that future detainees will be less likely to cooperate because they see us as hypocrites. They are less willing to trust us when we fail to live up to our principles. I experienced this firsthand in Iraq when interrogating high-ranking members of Al Qaida, some of whom decided to cooperate simply because I treated them with respect and civility.
The former vice president is confusing harshness with effectiveness. An effective interrogation is one that yields useful, accurate intelligence, not one that is harsh. It speaks to a fundamental misunderstanding of interrogations, the goal of which is not to coerce information from a prisoner, but to convince a prisoner to cooperate.
Finally, the point that is most absent is that our greatest success in this conflict was achieved without torture or abuse. My interrogation team found Abu Musab Al Zarqawi, the former leader of Al Qaida in Iraq and murderer of tens of thousands. We did this using relationship-building approaches and non-coercive law enforcement techniques. These worked to great effect on the most hardened members of Al Qaida -- spiritual leaders who had been behind the waves of suicide bombers and, hence, the sectarian violence that swept across Iraq. We convinced them to cooperate by applying our intellect. In essence, we worked smarter, not harsher.
Accountable
Well-Known Member
Waiting for the same from you, sir.
Cheney knows nuts abt interrogation. Just leave it to the experts. Cheney ought to be taught some basic management skills which can be applied to interrogation - the carrot and stick approach. All Cheney knows is the stick approach with his so called enhanced interrogation techniques. The carrot approach can produce more effective results as proven by the former senior interrogator in Iraq.
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
Another bleeding heart liberal 
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
Outstanding video, Tim.
Source: Telegraph.co.uk
New outrage over Iraq prison abuse photographs
The shocking images of inmates in Iraq and Afghanistan were published just a day after the US president announced plans for a legal battle to stop them ever being seen
They risked provoking renewed hostility in the Middle East as Mr Obama attempts to build bridges with the Islamic world
One picture showed a prisoner hung up upside down
Another showed naked prisoners handcuffed together
New outrage over Iraq prison abuse photographs
The shocking images of inmates in Iraq and Afghanistan were published just a day after the US president announced plans for a legal battle to stop them ever being seen
They risked provoking renewed hostility in the Middle East as Mr Obama attempts to build bridges with the Islamic world
One picture showed a prisoner hung up upside down
Another showed naked prisoners handcuffed together
Accountable
Well-Known Member
I don't get your point, Kelvin. Are you showing these as examples of torture? Are you saying they were being interrogated as the pictures were taken? Perhaps they were children tortured by insects??
Do you have a fucking point, or are you just throwing whatever shit you can find hoping someone will like you more?
Do you have a fucking point, or are you just throwing whatever shit you can find hoping someone will like you more?
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
The left apparently has some perverse enjoyment displaying more of what is already known. Exactly what they expect to accomplish seems to be political. I have to wonder if they would be happy until every single picture is published in a magazine. Perhaps they could just make it a weekly and drag it out for the next 4 years to make their point.
All at the expense of making us look worse when it only damages us. All to make a political point.
The following is not intended for any particular person.
All at the expense of making us look worse when it only damages us. All to make a political point.
The following is not intended for any particular person.
Read my posts on this topic. Its self-explainatory. Its relevent, consistent and no deviation. (BTW make use of the iggy button if you think I am typing a load of rubbish).
Hoping someone will like me more? For you info 99% here already hate me like poison.
Accountable
Well-Known Member
Irrelevant, inconsistent, and complete inflammatory. Those pics have nothing to do with insects, torture, interrogation, or Cheney. They're not recent or from Gitmo. They're from a case that's been exposed and handled.
Most probably just write you off as an ignorant asshole teenager without the first clue of the impact or ramifications of the bullshit you spew.kelvin070 said:
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