Were 9/11 detainee's children tortured by insects?

[Goat Whisperer]

Lol, epic truth. What ever happened to people trying to kill us being our enemies?

So people who are trying to kill us's children are fine to be tortured too...

Torture isn't a useful technique anyways. People are more likely to lie to stop the torture then to tell the truth, and get info you actually want.

 

[Alien Allen]

You've been listening to too many right wing sources. Waterboarding has been categorized as torture since at least WWII when the U.S. prosecuted individuals for waterboarding U.S. military people. And it is categorized by international law as torture.

Did you read any of the legal memos on waterboarding? They are not the smoke and mirrors being portrayed.

Waterboarding if done as indicated in those memos is not torture. Like anything when taken to extremes sure it is torture.

 

[kelvin070]

Did you read any of the legal memos on waterboarding? They are not the smoke and mirrors being portrayed.

Waterboarding if done as indicated in those memos is not torture. Like anything when taken to extremes sure it is torture.

I did some reading abt this topic. The Military Commissions Act bars, under all circumstances, treatment of prisoners that inflicts serious physical or mental pain or suffering.
Two of the chief sponsors of the legislation, senators John McCain and John Warner - both senior Republicans - say it outlaws waterboarding. The US army also revised its field manual to specifically ban waterboarding and other techniques as "cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" that is banned by the Geneva accords.

As early as 1901, a US court martial sentenced Major Edwin Glenn to 10 years hard labour for subjecting a suspected insurgent in the Philippines to the "water cure".
After the second world war, US military commissions successfully prosecuted as war criminals several Japanese soldiers who subjected US prisoners to waterboarding. In 1968, a US army officer was court martialled for helping to waterboard a prisoner in Vietnam.
So? Contradiction?

 

[Alien Allen]

I did some reading abt this topic. The Military Commissions Act bars, under all circumstances, treatment of prisoners that inflicts serious physical or mental pain or suffering.
Two of the chief sponsors of the legislation, senators John McCain and John Warner - both senior Republicans - say it outlaws waterboarding. The US army also revised its field manual to specifically ban waterboarding and other techniques as "cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment" that is banned by the Geneva accords.

As early as 1901, a US court martial sentenced Major Edwin Glenn to 10 years hard labour for subjecting a suspected insurgent in the Philippines to the "water cure".
After the second world war, US military commissions successfully prosecuted as war criminals several Japanese soldiers who subjected US prisoners to waterboarding. In 1968, a US army officer was court martialled for helping to waterboard a prisoner in Vietnam.
So? Contradiction?

did you read the actual written legal opinion?

forget reading about the topic. Read the actual opinions.

 

[kelvin070]

I read the memos and also abt the author.

 

[kelvin070]

Dick Cheney trying to protect his ass

 

[SgtSpike]

I just don't get you guys. You actually think torture is a smart policy because your logic tells you it is or your political masters have endorsed it?

Logic. If I can torture one guy to potentially save 1000's of lives of my fellow Americans, I would do it in a heartbeat. Similarly, if I can kill one guy to potentially save 1000's of lives of my fellow Americans, I would do it in a heartbeat. I am not one to lie down and do nothing while people who have actually proclaimed that they'd like nothing better than to kill us all plot to do just that.

I love the fact that those who are the first to wrap themselves in the flag and point the finger at "unpatriotic" Americans are the same ones who hardheartedly support torture.

A true patriot of this country will follow the rule of law whether it's easy to do so, or hard. You don't just throw out our laws to achieve your objectives, you follow them even when it hurts. That's what makes us a great nation.

And that pathetic argument justifying torture because we are dealing with people who would have no problem beheading our citizens completely lacks merit. Our laws do not contain caveats that pertain only to certain people... it protects all. And once again, this is what makes us a great nation.

Good point, actually. And I completely respect the laws we have in place. I do not believe we should go outside of the law, BUT there are always exceptions. For instance, the technical top speed a police officer should travel in the US, even when in an emergency, is 15MPH above the speed limit. But, if there's some maniac bent on destruction going 100MPH down the freeway and shooting out the window, you can bet the cops will go 30MPH over to keep up with him.

I definitely respect the laws, but I also respect the decisions of leaders who recognize that sometimes the laws need to be broken to accomplish a task for our own safety. Of course, this is a dangerous area to give ground, and leaders need to always be kept in check on stuff like this, else power can lead them in the wrong direction.

So people who are trying to kill us's children are fine to be tortured too...

Torture isn't a useful technique anyways. People are more likely to lie to stop the torture then to tell the truth, and get info you actually want.

Proof please. And no, I wouldn't torture children. That would be silly and fruitless.

 

[kelvin070]

Americans are concerned abt human rights abuses in other countries but first put your own house in order pls.

 

[kelvin070]

 

[skyblue]

so tell me...if you have a loved one serving in afganistan and he's been captured by the insurgents,would anyone condone torture to get the loved one back in one piece?

 

[Minor Axis]

Logic. If I can torture one guy to potentially save 1000's of lives of my fellow Americans, I would do it in a heartbeat. Similarly, if I can kill one guy to potentially save 1000's of lives of my fellow Americans, I would do it in a heartbeat. I am not one to lie down and do nothing while people who have actually proclaimed that they'd like nothing better than to kill us all plot to do just that.

It's sounds so simple, but it's so destructive to traditional values associated with this Countrie's historical ideals. If you're willing to kill people based on potential, it's not much of a leap to kill them based on rumor and innuendo. You'd make a great 3rd world dictator.

 

[kelvin070]

Bush and his cronies are into damage control now. Waterboarding is not a torture. So far no fatalities with waterboarding. You got to wait till there is a fatality before considering waterboarding as a torture. Just like you have to wait for 9/11 to happen before setting up a department called Homeland Security.

 

[Meirionnydd]

Bush and his cronies are into damage control now. Waterboarding is not a torture. So far no fatalities with waterboarding. You got to wait till there is a fatality before considering waterboarding as a torture. Just like you have to wait for 9/11 to happen before setting up a department called Homeland Security.

Huh?

I lol'd

 

[Minor Axis]

Bush and his cronies are into damage control now. Waterboarding is not a torture. So far no fatalities with waterboarding. You got to wait till there is a fatality before considering waterboarding as a torture. Just like you have to wait for 9/11 to happen before setting up a department called Homeland Security.

There is it folks. :nod: Just like Cheney on Meet the Press talking about 9/11, Alqeda, and Iraq like he is some kind of legitimate respected authority. I really don't think he's that stupid, just sinister and conniving. As if 9/11+ Alqeda= Irag. Try as hard as he may, it never did add up, just a good reflection of how gullible a sizable % of the American public was continues to be.

 

[dasb00T]

minoraxis making some good points on this thread.

 

[SgtSpike]

so tell me...if you have a loved one serving in afganistan and he's been captured by the insurgents,would anyone condone torture to get the loved one back in one piece?

Possibly, depending on the likelyhood that usable information would be obtained from the torture. It'd certainly need to be monitored on a case by case basis.

It's sounds so simple, but it's so destructive to traditional values associated with this Countrie's historical ideals. If you're willing to kill people based on potential, it's not much of a leap to kill them based on rumor and innuendo. You'd make a great 3rd world dictator.

I completely agree that it is a slipperly slope. But then pretty much anything to do with someone in a position of power could be viewed in the same manner. Pretty much any law or situational plan can be abused, so you just have to make sure you have the right people in the right places of power.

Does the potential of abuse mean we shouldn't have laws? I don't think so... I mean, the police have a lot of power that is easily abused, and we see abuse of it all the time in various situations scattered around the world, but does that mean we decide to not have police? No. It means we're careful about who we let be the policemen.

 

[sofia76]

According to the May 30, 2005 Bradbury memo, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times in March 2003 and Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded 83 times in August 2002.

May I ask where you got that? Do you believe it's veracity?

Just curious, haven't really given it any thought, but I was reading that, and it didn't sound real to me.

 

[kelvin070]

May I ask where you got that? Do you believe it's veracity?

Just curious, haven't really given it any thought, but I was reading that, and it didn't sound real to me.

Do your own reserarch and come up with your own conclusions.

 

[sofia76]

Do your own reserarch and come up with your own conclusions.

But I have......

Which is why I asked.

 

[kelvin070]

But I have......

Which is why I asked.

State explicitly your conclusions - share it with us