Occupy Oakland Raids

[Codrus]

Again, more denial of reality....don't you get tired of being a dumb ass?

ok,...again , ..this is my job. Am i going to have to get an attorney involved here?

my denial of reality as well as my dumbassness are patented :trustme,...go find your own niche and crawl in it

 

[Johnfromokc]

ok,...again , ..this is my job. Am i going to have to get an attorney involved here?

my denial of reality as well as my dumbassness are patented :trustme,...go find your own niche and crawl in it

Sorry Cod...you're gonna have to play second dumbass fiddle to ole Stone. Hell, he has ya beat so bad we are demoting you to mandolin.

 

[Codrus]

Sorry Cod...you're gonna have to play second dumbass fiddle to ole Stone. Hell, he has ya beat so bad we are demoting you to mandolin.

your obviously possessed ,...i refute you

 

[Alien Allen]

John who was the founder of the OWS movement?

It did not just happen by accident.

 

[Stone]

OK - I editied out the 90% of your post that was nonsensical rambling and came up with this flawed, but semi-coherent portion:



1. There was never any leftist intent in OWS - unless you are making up your own defintion of leftist.

2. Lasn was not an early "founder". Was he an early supporter - yes -founder? No. Just because you keep repeating it wont make it eventually become true. Yes, he has some involvement as do thousands of others.

3. If there is some support from fringe groups like Anarchists and Communists, so the fuck what? They have no control or sway over OWS whatsoever. OWS has made that clear repeatedly.

4. Unions support OWS - again, so the fuck what? Unions are at their weakest in 100 years in America - all unions combined cannot compare to even one Fortune 500 corporation as a lobby power. Further, unions represent labor, and the corporations represent the top 1%, so of course the unions will fall on the side of OWS.

So tell me Stone - what is Socialism and what does it mean to you?

I editied out the 90% of your post that was nonsensical rambling and came up with this flawed

Of course you did, you had to because you have nothing logical in way of a response.

There was never any leftist intent in OWS - unless you are making up your own defintion of leftist.

Lasn has already commented to the intent of OWS being a tool to enhance leftist politics.
And Adbusters was the initiator and initial organizer of the movement.

Lasn was not an early "founder". Was he an early supporter - yes -founder? No.

Lasn is a cofounfer of Adbusters and it's already a known Adbusters initiated the movement.

If there is some support from fringe groups like Anarchists and Communists, so the fuck what

Some? And how do you define 'some'?
So the fuck what? You are supporting those radical elements when you argue to limit reform in the US to only enhance a socialist position.
That's 'what the fuck'.

Unions support OWS - again, so the fuck what?

Slick....you only make my argument when you support corruption in a sphere that supports your politics......

Unions are at their weakest in 100 years in America

That would apply to the private sector, not the public sector.
Pension fund issues that are bankrupting states are public union driven.

So tell me Stone - what is Socialism and what does it mean to you?

It means the government has a greater influence in all aspects of our lives, from controlling how much can be earned, controlling production and price of commodities to social entitlements on a greater scale than what we are currently seeing.
But socialism is also influenced by corruption.....an issue you seem to reject.
And scenarios like the Soviet Union and especially Yugoslavia end badly when their own systems become bankrupt from corruption.

You argue for socialism but avoid certain aspects of corruption.
You obviously aren't looking for solutions to a failing economy and the hardships that go along with it. Like the OWS, you're looking for political change.

 

[Johnfromokc]

John who was the founder of the OWS movement?

It did not just happen by accident.

It evolved over a 2 year period Allen, and it is still evolving - If you truly desire to know, read this and watch the associated videos:

http://ampedstatus.org/a-report-fro...allstreet-and-the-origins-of-the-99-movement/

It's been posted before, right in this very thread, so here it is again. If you had to put a name on a major influence, it would have to be David DeGraw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNkLBSsFnxY&feature=player_embedded

 

[Alien Allen]

Thanks John

I never heard of the guy before

Knowing Stone I will expect he will come up with some background. He is more dogged than I but from what little I could glean it appears he is an investigative journalist and I don't see anything predating Adbusters involvement yet. Everything I have seen leans towards Adbusters being the main driving force behind this. Even if not then would you agree Adbusters is not a good partner to be dancing with? Whether invited or not? And nothing has been shown where OWS has tried to distance themselves from any of the groups that Stone has cited. Not a good sign IMO

And I will check out the earlier link on the fair wage you posted.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Lasn has already commented to the intent of OWS being a tool to enhance leftist politics.
And Adbusters was the initiator and initial organizer of the movement.

You said it yet again. Here, read this if you want to know how it started:

http://ampedstatus.org/a-report-fro...allstreet-and-the-origins-of-the-99-movement/

That would apply to the private sector, not the public sector.
Pension fund issues that are bankrupting states are public union driven.

You are so full of right wing shit. You are no fucking centrist, lol. It is not the unions that are bankrupting states. States and cities without unions are going bankrupt and some states and cities with unions are not. Why do you think that is Einstein?

It means the government has a greater influence in all aspects of our lives, from controlling how much can be earned, controlling production and price of commodities to social entitlements on a greater scale than what we are currently seeing.
But socialism is also influenced by corruption.....an issue you seem to reject.

Really? You mean like the Corporate Socialism type of government we have now that you seem so intent on defending?

And scenarios like the Soviet Union and especially Yugoslavia end badly when their own systems become bankrupt from corruption.

How old are you Stone? You sound like a Cold War Mccarthyism throwback the way you go on and on about Communism and Socialism.

You argue for socialism but avoid certain aspects of corruption.
You obviously aren't looking for solutions to a failing economy and the hardships that go along with it. Like the OWS, you're looking for political change.

You keep repeating this asshat line too. Our Capitalist system is corrupt to the core if you have not noticed. Corporations have suckled up to the government tit for subsidies and legislation in their favor. I and OWS are for changing that. If you would extract your head from your ass you could easily see that.

No, you're no centrist - you're just another right wing conservobot that is embarrassed to claim the conservative title, so you call yourself centrist - just like the current batch of alleged libertarians today - you're all still right wing FOX bots no matter how much you deny it.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Thanks John

I never heard of the guy before

He and ampedstatus.com was the catylist of the movement if anyone could claim such. All this information has been made available before. It takes time to go to the individual sources and educate yourself.

Knowing Stone I will expect he will come up with some background. He is more dogged than I but from what little I could glean it appears he is an investigative journalist and I don't see anything predating Adbusters involvement yet. Everything I have seen leans towards Adbusters being the main driving force behind this.

I'm not impressed with Stone's research abilities. It thus far has been limited to the anti-OWS media outlets and as such bears little resemblence to reality.

Even if not then would you agree Adbusters is not a good partner to be dancing with? Whether invited or not? And nothing has been shown where OWS has tried to distance themselves from any of the groups that Stone has cited. Not a good sign IMO

I have no problem with Adbusters. All this commie-anarchist stuff you guys keep coming up with is baseless. Adbusters is anti-commercialism, not anti-capitalism. Take some time and learn about them first hand as opposed to accepting Stones uninformed opinions.

And I will check out the earlier link on the fair wage you posted.

Fair enough. Best to get the information straight from the source rather than from either pro or con spin machines.

 

[Alien Allen]

John you should give a person more time before judging.

I can assure you that Stone is NOT a right winger. He is a pain in the ass at times though

I was known as an IPN (Insane Pesky Nitpicker) at another site and he puts me to shame

But he is one of the best at digging thru bullshit as far as sources.

 

[Stone]

You said it yet again. Here, read this if you want to know how it started:

http://ampedstatus.org/a-report-fro...allstreet-and-the-origins-of-the-99-movement/



You are so full of right wing shit. You are no fucking centrist, lol. It is not the unions that are bankrupting states. States and cities without unions are going bankrupt and some states and cities with unions are not. Why do you think that is Einstein?



Really? You mean like the Corporate Socialism type of government we have now that you seem so intent on defending?



How old are you Stone? You sound like a Cold War Mccarthyism throwback they way you go on and on about Communism and Socialism.



You keep repeating this asshat line too. Our Capitalist system is corrupt to the core if you have not noticed. Corporations have suckled up to the government tit for subsidies and legislation in their favor. I and OWS are for changing that. If you would extract your head from your ass you could easily see that.

No, you're no centrist - you're just another right wing conservobot that is embarrassed to claim the conservative title, so you call yourself centrist - just like the current batch of alleged libertarians today - you're all still right wing FOX bots no matter how much you deny it.

You said it yet again. Here, read this if you want to know how it started:

Read this.....it's Adbusters initiating the actual Occupy Wall Street protests.
http://www.adbusters.org/blogs/adbusters-blog/occupywallstreet.html

You are so full of right wing shit.

Damn, you are funny

It is not the unions that are bankrupting states. States and cities without unions are going bankrupt and some states and cities with unions are not. Why do you think that is Einstein?

It is pension plans that are pushing many states into bankruptcy.
Your denial does not change reality.
And you've chosen a position that's not defensible.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-declare-bankruptcy-reduce-pension-bills.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/14/us-usa-states-bankruptcy-idUSTRE71D75X20110214

You are incredibly ignorant.

Really? You mean like the Corporate Socialism type of government we have now that you seem so intent on defending?

I'm not defending anyone's corruption.....I'm pointing out that you and OWS are.
And sometimes you seem too ignorant to realize you do.
Hell....I've even talked you into admitting you'd participate in business corruption if you could get away with it.
That was seriously not bright of you.

How old are you Stone? You sound like a Cold War Mccarthyism throwback they way you go on and on about Communism and Socialism.

Our Capitalist system is corrupt to the core if you have not noticed.

No shit, you just noticed?

Corporations have suckled up to the government tit for subsidies and legislation in their favor.

Indeed....and public sector unions and legislators have had working agreements that are bankrupting the majority of states.
The issue is ....you don't want reform, you want political change of a leftist nature.

I and OWS are for changing that.

I know you are, lefty

If you would extract your head from your ass you could easily see that.

Just more of your dumbass denial

No, you're no centrist - you're just another right wing conservobot that is embarrassed to claim the conservative title, so you call yourself centrist - just like the current batch of alleged libertarians today - you're all still right wing FOX bots no matter how much you deny it

You're a hoot

 

[Accountable]

Change for the sake of change does not usually work. Look at the 2008 election for president.

And yet that's exactly what's happening on the repub side this time around.

 

[The Man]

John you should give a person more time before judging.

I can assure you that Stone is NOT a right winger. He is a pain in the ass at times though

I was known as an IPN (Insane Pesky Nitpicker) at another site and he puts me to shame

But he is one of the best at digging thru bullshit as far as sources.

I can vouch for that as well...neither right or left
He takes each issue as it is without bias.
Pain in the ass?
Only if you are posting bullshit to fill an agenda...you will be exposed

 

[Stone]

He and ampedstatus.com was the catylist of the movement if anyone could claim such. All this information has been made available before. It takes time to go to the individual sources and educate yourself.



I'm not impressed with Stone's research abilities. It thus far has been limited to the anti-OWS media outlets and as such bears little resemblence to reality.



I have no problem with Adbusters. All this commie-anarchist stuff you guys keep coming up with is baseless. Adbusters is anti-commercialism, not anti-capitalism. Take some time and learn about them first hand as opposed to accepting Stones uninformed opinions.



Fair enough. Best to get the information straight from the source rather than from either pro or con spin machines.

He and ampedstatus.com was the catylist of the movement if anyone could claim such. All this information has been made available before. It takes time to go to the individual sources and educate yourself.

Ahh....now he's a catalyst.
You could probably say that about many leftist advocates.
Doesn't mean he or the 'others' started/organized the OWS protests.
He's obviously a factor in the movement.

I'm not impressed with Stone's research abilities.

So far, you've only used circular logic. It 'is' because you say so.

It thus far has been limited to the anti-OWS media outlets

Yeah....the Communist Party, Lasn, Schultz and a lot of scumbags on the street.....you mean that kind of anti-OWS?

I have no problem with Adbusters. All this commie-anarchist stuff you guys keep coming up with is baseless.

It's there.
Your attempt at perfect imagery is flawed by their support and influence.

Adbusters is anti-commercialism, not anti-capitalism.

It's doubtful a magazine would initiate the anti-capitalistic atmosphere seen in the OWS with out being anti capitalist.

Take some time and learn about them first hand as opposed to accepting Stones uninformed opinions.

First hand with a grain of salt.

Best to get the information straight from the source rather than from either pro or con spin machines

Even better to fact check those claims after reading them.

 

[Stone]

Time to put the economic conditions in perspective.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news...p-drop-in-number-of-millionaires-1277179.html

While no one can deny the vast gap between rich and poor in this country, the Great Recession spread the economic pain across all income groups, including the so-called 1-percenters in Ohio, based on a Dayton Daily News analysis of state income tax returns.

 

[Johnfromokc]

John you should give a person more time before judging.

How much more time does he need to cut and paste information from the anti-OWS blogosphere before I judge him as the parrot he is?

I can assure you that Stone is NOT a right winger. He is a pain in the ass at times though

Why then all the right wing anti-OWS "Socialist", "Communist", "Anarchist" talking points over and over and over again? He parrots the same shit the TEA Party parrots. And we are supposed to believe he is a centrist?

I was known as an IPN (Insane Pesky Nitpicker) at another site and he puts me to shame

That I will agree on. At least you engage in reasonable discussion at times as opposed to the continual propaganda repetition of Stone.

But he is one of the best at digging thru bullshit as far as sources.

He may dig through bullshit, but all he posts is bullshit. Thats not dgging through anything - that's just shoveling shit from one anti-OWS site and pasting it here.

Sorry - not impressed.

 

[Johnfromokc]

And yet that's exactly what's happening on the repub side this time around.

Exactly. And the anti-OWS parrots are achieving nothing other than parroting the TEA Party and other right wing talking points.

The anti-OWS crowd has no answers for our current economic crisis. All I see is the samer old garbage regurgitated.

It is complete fucktardery to attempt to call yoruself a centrist, libertarian, or whatever right wing denial flavor of the day - yet keep repeating the same shit about Communism et al from the Mccarthy era.

Keep doing the same old shit you've been doing, and you'll keep getting the same results. None of these anti-OWS parroting fuckwits offer up a solution of their own - they just try to tear down the people who have the courage of their convictions to get up off their asses and work to make something happen.

 

[MoonOwl]

I came across this article on a news blog I like to read:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/12/st-pauls-canon-occupy-protest

With this response to the article that I thought sums it all up nicely:

Dear Guardian.

The Occupy movement are not "anti-Capitalist". Indeed, they seek a return to capitalism.

First, some definitions.

Capitalism is a system where if you make money you keep it, and if you lose money, you are stuck with that debt for life. You, yourself; nobody obligated to help you with it.

Socialism, or communism (take notes, there will be a quiz next class) is where if you make money, it is taxed away from you to serve society and if you lose money, society is taxed to cover the losses.

Fascism is a system where if you make money you keep it, but if you lose money, the losses are transferred to the society as a whole. As trillions in taxpayer bailouts to the bankers to cover the losses from the mortgage-backed securities fraud prove, the US and UK have long ago abandoned capitalism and operate as fully-formed fascist economies where financial game-players pocket billions in bonuses while the losses form their scams are paid by the general population.

The propagandists trying to derail the occupy movement betray their cold-war roots by hurling phrases like "Commies", and "Marxists" at us as if we were still indoctrinated by the public school system to wet ourselves upon hearing those words. But with the collapse of the USSR, that particular piece of brainwashing was dropped from the curriculum. As a result, today's youth are not scared away from an honest and objective analysis of what the private central bankers are up to by the word "commie", no more than they are scared away from an honest and objective analysis of what Israel is up to by the word "Anti-Semite."

The Occupy movement are not, as you put it, "anti-Capitalist. They are anti-Fascist, and it is a mark of how out of touch and clueless the corporate media is that you cannot comprehend the difference.

:ninja

As you were..........

 

[Stone]

How much more time does he need to cut and paste information from the anti-OWS blogosphere before I judge him as the parrot he is?




Why then all the right wing anti-OWS "Socialist", "Communist", "Anarchist" talking points over and over and over again? He parrots the same shit the TEA Party parrots. And we are supposed to believe he is a centrist?



That I will agree on. At least you engage in reasonable discussion at times as opposed to the continual propaganda repetition of Stone.



He may dig through bullshit, but all he posts is bullshit. Thats not dgging through anything - that's just shoveling shit from one anti-OWS site and pasting it here.

Sorry - not impressed.

You sound oh so bitter and yet nothing you've posted has been anything other than verbal diarrhea.
Face it, you support the OWS for it's socialist stance and being called out on it pains you.
You obviously support the over throw of our government, but lack the intellectual honesty to admit it.
You only accept the propaganda from left wing sources, mostly OWS derived.
You support one sided corruption because it's aligned with your politics.

I'm not impressed with your performance as a debater at all

 

[Stone]

I came across this article on a news blog I like to read:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/12/st-pauls-canon-occupy-protest

With this response to the article that I thought sums it all up nicely:

Dear Guardian.

The Occupy movement are not "anti-Capitalist". Indeed, they seek a return to capitalism.

First, some definitions.

Capitalism is a system where if you make money you keep it, and if you lose money, you are stuck with that debt for life. You, yourself; nobody obligated to help you with it.

Socialism, or communism (take notes, there will be a quiz next class) is where if you make money, it is taxed away from you to serve society and if you lose money, society is taxed to cover the losses.

Fascism is a system where if you make money you keep it, but if you lose money, the losses are transferred to the society as a whole. As trillions in taxpayer bailouts to the bankers to cover the losses from the mortgage-backed securities fraud prove, the US and UK have long ago abandoned capitalism and operate as fully-formed fascist economies where financial game-players pocket billions in bonuses while the losses form their scams are paid by the general population.

The propagandists trying to derail the occupy movement betray their cold-war roots by hurling phrases like "Commies", and "Marxists" at us as if we were still indoctrinated by the public school system to wet ourselves upon hearing those words. But with the collapse of the USSR, that particular piece of brainwashing was dropped from the curriculum. As a result, today's youth are not scared away from an honest and objective analysis of what the private central bankers are up to by the word "commie", no more than they are scared away from an honest and objective analysis of what Israel is up to by the word "Anti-Semite."

The Occupy movement are not, as you put it, "anti-Capitalist. They are anti-Fascist, and it is a mark of how out of touch and clueless the corporate media is that you cannot comprehend the difference.

:ninja

As you were..........

The Occupy movement are not "anti-Capitalist". Indeed, they seek a return to capitalism.

Sophistry