Martin/Zimmerman-----Poll

[The Man]

:24: Apparently not according to TM...

Well, The "Man" lives in a fantasy world, so it's not that surprising.

Are you two that fucking ignorant?
You want 12 people to guess who started a fight and base a conviction from such?

 

[Aeval]

So you want 12 people to get together and GUESS how the fight started?
How is this the right course of action?

Now remember..with the American judicial system you are supposed to be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt
If people have to go in and guess..isnt that reasonable doubt alone?...certainly grounds for a new trial.

Besides it wouldnt really matter who started it...it is when it became deadly that counts.
Which is pretty obvious its when the head smashing started.

If you came up and slapped me I cant start smashing your head for example.

I want 12 people to listen to the prosecution and defense unbiasedly. I want them to consider all facts, take direction from the judge and come to a unanimous decision based on the facts as presented.

 

[The Man]

I want 12 people to listen to the prosecution and defense unbiasedly. I want them to consider all facts, take direction from the judge and come to a unanimous decision based on the facts as presented.

And guess who started it?
When it is not the determining factor anyway.


What evidence is there of murder?.....Any evidence at all throw me a bone here

 

[Aeval]

And guess who started it?
When it is not the determining factor anyway.


What evidence is there of murder?.....Any evidence at all throw me a bone here

There are lawyers getting paid good to fight this one out....I'm sure they will eliminate the jury's "guessing". There will be evidence presented by both sides. The jury is to listen to the evidence as presented and to instructions from the judge and make a decision based on such.

 

[The Man]

There are lawyers getting paid good to fight this one out....I'm sure they will eliminate the jury's "guessing". There will be evidence presented by both sides. The jury is to listen to the evidence as presented and to instructions from the judge and make a decision based on such.

What evidence is there of murder?.....Any evidence at all throw me a bone here

 

[Minor Axis]

Yeah, that Marissa Alexander case is really amazing. She FELT her life was in danger and used a WARNING shot which stopped her husband from becoming violent with her ... yet she was convicted with a crime. I'm sure they will argue that she wasn't being physically assaulted at the time she fired the weapon, so she "SHOULDN'T" have used the weapon at all.

This is the problem with self defense ... it is wrapped all around the individual's feelings of whether or not they are in a life threatening situation. How in the Hell can one legislate something like this? It is all about the individual's feelings at that moment???

But it also based on adult responsible behavior. He saw a guy he did not like the looks of. That is all. He reported it to 911. He was told to stay away. If he thought Martin was going to break into a house, why not shadow him and wait for the police to show up? So he drives up to him, jumps out of his vehicle and instigates a confrontation? I'm sorry but this is not responsible by any means. And when he starts to get his ass whooped (my speculation), he pulls out a gun and kills the kid.

Whose fault is this? Based on what I've heard, this sounds like manslaughter to me. Last I heard vigilantly justice especially when no crime has been committed is frowned upon. Under no circumstances should the police have let him walk without an arrest. And as Tim said, this is not someone who has their house being broken into, and it's not someone being assaulted unprovoked. From what I understand, it's someone who instigated a confrontation with a person who was simply headed home from the store and ended up killing him. That stupid Florida law was not ment to allow you to start an in-your-face confrontation and then shoot someone when they fight back.

 

[The Man]

So he drives up to him, jumps out of his vehicle and instigates a confrontation? .

First I have heard of it.

The story goes he called 911 when he saw martin scoping units in the rain.
Martin ran when he saw the watchman Zimmerman
Zimmerman went to see where he went
Zimmerman was savagely beaten....Zimmerman shot the violent young man

 

[Alien Allen]

Sounds exactly like what would happen if you slipped and fell in the wet grass while running down an innocent kid.

tell me you are not serious

have you ever heard of somebody breaking their nose slipping on the grass??

the same goes for abrasions on the back of the head

maybe you got some awful tough grass in PA


speaking of grass. unless I am mistaken the toxicology reports indicate Martin had smoked some weed at some point. Does that have any bearing on the matter? Pot users typically are mild mannered. But I do know for some people that at times it can provide one to experience some degree of paranoia.

This is one unusual case despite the initial press reporting that made it look like a slam drunk racist cowboy attacking for no reason a black kid

 

[Aeval]

tell me you are not serious

have you ever heard of somebody breaking their nose slipping on the grass??

the same goes for abrasions on the back of the head

maybe you got some awful tough grass in PA


speaking of grass. unless I am mistaken the toxicology reports indicate Martin had smoked some weed at some point. Does that have any bearing on the matter? Pot users typically are mild mannered. But I do know for some people that at times it can provide one to experience some degree of paranoia.

This is one unusual case despite the initial press reporting that made it look like a slam drunk racist cowboy attacking for no reason a black kid

First I heard of the toxicology report, but I haven't paid much attention lately.

The initial press reporting was disgusting and I really don't think there's anyone here basing their opinion on those reports, or at least, I hope not.

I see what you mean about the injuries/slipping and falling...but I agree with Tim in the fact that the injuries are not life threatening and by no means indicate a severe enough beating to justify lethal force.

 

[Aeval]

What evidence is there of murder?.....Any evidence at all throw me a bone here

Show me evidence that Martin repeatedly slammed Zimmerman's head into the ground.

Show me evidence that Martin instigated the fight.

Show me evidence that Martin was "scoping units".

 

[Tim]

tell me you are not serious

have you ever heard of somebody breaking their nose slipping on the grass??

the same goes for abrasions on the back of the head

maybe you got some awful tough grass in PA


speaking of grass. unless I am mistaken the toxicology reports indicate Martin had smoked some weed at some point. Does that have any bearing on the matter? Pot users typically are mild mannered. But I do know for some people that at times it can provide one to experience some degree of paranoia.

This is one unusual case despite the initial press reporting that made it look like a slam drunk racist cowboy attacking for no reason a black kid

Please follow along...

I am simply pointing out that the injuries can be from a numerous manner of means. Slipping on the wet grass and falling onto the paved walkway is one possible way that you can get those lacerations on the back of the head. Whether I believe that's what happened or not wasn't relevant, it was the fact that injuries can happen from many different scenarios and TM is only considering one.


And for the record, I have always believed that the injuries were from a fight where Martin was hitting Zimmerman. Maybe not all of the wounds, but possibly... But I do not believe that Martin was savagely smashing his head into the pavement like TM wants us to believe. There would be much more damage from such a beating. Not just two little cuts.

 

[Aeval]

Please follow along...

I am simply pointing out that the injuries can be from a numerous manner of means. Slipping on the wet grass and falling onto the paved walkway is one possible way that you can get those lacerations on the back of the head. Whether I believe that's what happened or not wasn't relevant, it was the fact that injuries can happen from many different scenarios and TM is only considering one.


And for the record, I have always believed that the injuries were from a fight where Martin was hitting Zimmerman. Maybe not all of the wounds, but possibly... But I do not believe that Martin was savagely smashing his head into the pavement like TM wants us to believe. There would be much more damage from such a beating. Not just two little cuts.

Seconded.

 

[The Man]

Show me evidence that Martin repeatedly slammed Zimmerman's head into the ground.

Show me evidence that Martin instigated the fight.

Show me evidence that Martin was "scoping units".

Show me evidence that Martin repeatedly slammed Zimmerman's head into the ground.

The gashes to his head...as well as all the red areas on the back of his head that isnt blood.

Show me evidence that Martin instigated the fight.

It goes the other way around...innocent until proven guilty..so show me that Zimmerman started the fight.
And even if George started the fight..that doesnt give martin a right to start slamming his head...just like if you came up and slapped me I dont have the right to start smashing your head into the cement...I have explained this to you before

Show me evidence that Martin was "scoping units"

He was observed by the watchman.

 

[The Man]

Please follow along...

I am simply pointing out that the injuries can be from a numerous manner of means. Slipping on the wet grass and falling onto the paved walkway is one possible way that you can get those lacerations on the back of the head. Whether I believe that's what happened or not wasn't relevant, it was the fact that injuries can happen from many different scenarios and TM is only considering one.


And for the record, I have always believed that the injuries were from a fight where Martin was hitting Zimmerman. Maybe not all of the wounds, but possibly... But I do not believe that Martin was savagely smashing his head into the pavement like TM wants us to believe. There would be much more damage from such a beating. Not just two little cuts.

And how many fucking times would he have fallen on his head...Jesus Christ think before you post Tim.

And one more fucking time....go find a concrete wall and slowly hit your head on it tim...its gonna hurt like fucking hell.
Now imagine it being hard enough to start cutting your head open....Please Tim think before you post you are upsetting the flow of the thread.

 

[The Man]

Seconded.

You can do better than cheer lead for Tim...come on...think about what he has been posting

 

[Minor Axis]

Let me get this straight, if two "packing" idiots get into a fist fight in Florida, because of the "Stand Your Ground" law, they can both rightfully shoot each other with no ramifications? Both of them can say "I feared for my life" and it makes no difference who started it. A bunch of fucking idiots passed this law. Let's see what the findings are in court. And then lets see how many more people try to use this defense to cover their stupidity.

Read about Florida's version of the law here.

I believe this is applicable:

776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

Would you take your kid to the hospital...or go to prison.
Wait a minute..you are from NZ...it may be different there

Certainly is. This whole crock of shit would never happen here. Our police force would discourage armed vigilantes.

But never mind. We can go round in circles, ridiculing the excesses of the Zimmerbots until the cows come home.
There's been no new information for days, the only thing that changes is the wishful scenario-building of those who subconsciously or otherwise applaud Zimmerman for ridding the world of one more person who fits a criminal profile, and would rather not see the ill-considered laws surrounding this execution put to the test.

 

[Mercury]

But it also based on adult responsible behavior. He saw a guy he did not like the looks of. That is all. He reported it to 911. He was told to stay away. If he thought Martin was going to break into a house, why not shadow him and wait for the police to show up? So he drives up to him, jumps out of his vehicle and instigates a confrontation? I'm sorry but this is not responsible by any means. And when he starts to get his ass whooped (my speculation), he pulls out a gun and kills the kid.

Whose fault is this? Based on what I've heard, this sounds like manslaughter to me. Last I heard vigilantly justice especially when no crime has been committed is frowned upon. Under no circumstances should the police have let him walk without an arrest. And as Tim said, this is not someone who has their house being broken into, and it's not someone being assaulted unprovoked. From what I understand, it's someone who instigated a confrontation with a person who was simply headed home from the store and ended up killing him. That stupid Florida law was not ment to allow you to start an in-your-face confrontation and then shoot someone when they fight back.

Oh, I agree! I don't think Zimmerman should have followed him on foot at all. The report to police was the extent of his responsibilities.

The problem here is at which point did either individual break a law? Legally speaking, this is a MESS of a case and it will be a difficult one to prosecute. I just hope justice comes out of this thing ... for whoever truly deserves it!

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

Oh, I agree! I don't think Zimmerman should have followed him on foot at all. The report to police was the extent of his responsibilities.

The problem here is at which point did either individual break a law? Legally speaking, this is a MESS of a case and it will be a difficult one to prosecute. I just hope justice comes out of this thing ... for whoever truly deserves it!

Fully agree. Best I can see, the root cause of the problem is that the state of Florida has abandoned its responsibility to protect its citizens and is leaving it up to amateurs to try and keep the peace.

 

[Mercury]

Fully agree. Best I can see, the root cause of the problem is that the state of Florida has abandoned its responsibility to protect its citizens and is leaving it up to amateurs to try and keep the peace.

It is rather a "wild west" kind of law ... I think the intent was probably good, but like many laws, the unintended consequences can be very damaging.