Martin/Zimmerman-----Poll

[Johnfromokc]

would that give martin the right to try and kill the watchman?{if he followed him}
Simple yes or no will suffice

TM - I'm not going to dignify your idiotic question with an answer because you have chosen to ignore all EVIDENCE and have insisted on continuing with your moronic conclusions that cannot be based in anything other than outright bigotry - because your arguments have zero basis in fact.

 

[The Man]

TM - I'm not going to dignify your idiotic question with an answer because you have chosen to ignore all EVIDENCE and have insisted on continuing with your moronic conclusions that cannot be based in anything other than outright bigotry - because your arguments have zero basis in fact.

Lets say he followed him John if it makes you feel better

would that give martin the right to try and kill the watchman?
Simple yes or no will suffice.

 

[The Man]

Is it to difficult a question for you John?

 

[Tangerine]

You are a perfect example of why the jury system is flawed John

You are a perfect example of why abortion should be unrestricted, and in some cases, encouraged.

 

[The Man]

You are a perfect example of why abortion should be unrestricted, and in some cases, encouraged.

The best part of you ran down your fathers leg

 

[All Else Failed]

You are a perfect example of why abortion should be unrestricted, and in some cases, encouraged.

Is this necessary or even civil?

This quote shows how fucking stupid the Zimmerbigot position has become.

Totally innocent? Are you really that fucking dense that you have convinced yourself that Zimmerman bears zero responsibility for the death of Trayvon Martin - an unarmed teenager - who Zimmerman followed after having been told at leat TWICE to never follow a suspect?

One more time, I'll repost this for the low IQ fuckwits among us who cannot grasp reality:

All you have is insults, it seems.

Person A doesn't agree with your argument = fallback to ad hominems.

The one possibility (which is still very possible) that you REFUSE to look at is that Zimmerman, like he has said, was walking back to his SUV AFTER he said "okay" to the 9/11 operator who told him that he shouldn't follow. If Martin reengaged Zimmerman (Zimmerman was recorded as to have lost him when he was following Martin) and caused a physical confrontation and Zimmerman had the belief that his bodily well-being was in danger, Zimmerman can be pretty damn innocent for shooting Martin out of defense.

Quiet literally, the fact that Zimmerman started to follow Martin before the shooting DOESN'T MATTER.

7:13 Zimmerman told to STOP FOLLOWING MARTIN.

7:15 Zimmerman hangs up with 911 operator.

7:16 Martin's phone line goes dead.

7:17 cops arrive on scene and find Martin dead.

Yet you have no god damn clue as to what happened after martin AGREED to stop following martin and after Zimmerman told the operator that he lost him and that he was returning to his SUV.


Man, this whole thing must seem 110% cut-and-dry to someone like you who absolutely refuses to even think about what happened between those events. You're so dripping with bias that it reeks.

 

[clancy]

It looks like the "let's lynch the latino" mob is in full swing. It is like this, when the lead investigator on this case admits, under oath, there is no evidence to prove their case then there is no evidence to prove their case. Zimmerman was arrested to prevent riots and so some politicians careers wouldn't be hurt, namely Angela Corey and the Gov. of Florida.

 

[mclovin1]

So the timeline is like this:
7:11 PM: Zimmerman calls 911.

7:12 Phone records show Martins girlfriend is talking to him.

7:13 Zimmerman told to STOP FOLLOWING MARTIN.

7:15 Zimmerman hangs up with 911 operator.

7:16 Martin's phone line goes dead.

7:17 cops arrive on scene and find Martin dead.


Let's fill in the blanks:

7:11 PM: Zimmerman calls 911.
To report a suspicious person in his neighborhood as is normal with neighborhood watch. This particular neighborhood had a recent history of crime committed by criminals matching Martin's description.

7:12 Phone records show Martins girlfriend is talking to him.
During which his girlfriend said he should run but he refuses. Sounds more angry than scared about being watched.

7:13 Zimmerman told to STOP FOLLOWING MARTIN.

It was a SUGGESTION made by a 911 operator. No proof whatsoever has been offered to show Zimmerman didn't follow the ADVICE.

7:15 Zimmerman hangs up with 911 operator.

While on his way back to his truck. Nothing has been shown to prove otherwise.

7:16 Martin's phone line goes dead.

When he sees Zimmerman and decides to confront him. His phone falls to the ground as he attacks Zimmerman.

7:17 cops arrive on scene and find Martin dead.

And to find a bloody and beaten Zimmerman who didn't flee the scene. Why should he if he was defending himself. If he had "hunted" Martin down and killed him he would have fled the scene as killers do.

 

[Tangerine]

So the timeline is like this:
7:11 PM: Zimmerman calls 911.

7:12 Phone records show Martins girlfriend is talking to him.

7:13 Zimmerman told to STOP FOLLOWING MARTIN.

7:15 Zimmerman hangs up with 911 operator.

7:16 Martin's phone line goes dead.

7:17 cops arrive on scene and find Martin dead.


Let's fill in the blanks:

7:11 PM: Zimmerman calls 911.
To report a suspicious person in his neighborhood as is normal with neighborhood watch. This particular neighborhood had a recent history of crime committed by criminals matching Martin's description.

7:12 Phone records show Martins girlfriend is talking to him.
During which his girlfriend said he should run but he refuses. Sounds more angry than scared about being watched.

7:13 Zimmerman told to STOP FOLLOWING MARTIN.

It was a SUGGESTION made by a 911 operator. No proof whatsoever has been offered to show Zimmerman didn't follow the ADVICE.

7:15 Zimmerman hangs up with 911 operator.

While on his way back to his truck. Nothing has been shown to prove otherwise.

7:16 Martin's phone line goes dead.

When he sees Zimmerman and decides to confront him. His phone falls to the ground as he attacks Zimmerman.

7:17 cops arrive on scene and find Martin dead.

And to find a bloody and beaten Zimmerman who didn't flee the scene. Why should he if he was defending himself. If he had "hunted" Martin down and killed him he would have fled the scene as killers do.

7:12 - Is it a crime to be angry that a stranger is following you for no reason?

7:13 - If you really want to split hairs, it wasn't a suggestion either. The word "suggest" was never used. It was an instruction. "We don't need you to do that." The word "don't" is pretty definitive. Especially when you are the leader of a neighborhood watch group and have been specifically trained and had it reinforced to NEVER follow someone. Of course, those same guideline are also pretty clear that firearms are not part of the code of neighborhood watch, but GZ has never much shown that he was one for following protocol anyway.

7:15 - Do where know exactly where GZ was when he placed the call? Wasn't he already AT his truck? How and when did he get from his truck to the spot where TM was shot and killed?


7:17 - Interesting how you expect Martin to "flee the scene" but not Zimmerman. So Stand Your Ground only applies to certain people?

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

So the timeline is like this:
7:11 PM: Zimmerman calls 911.

7:12 Phone records show Martins girlfriend is talking to him.

7:13 Zimmerman told to STOP FOLLOWING MARTIN.

7:15 Zimmerman hangs up with 911 operator.

7:16 Martin's phone line goes dead.

7:17 cops arrive on scene and find Martin dead.


Let's fill in the blanks:

I thought the whole point of the pro- Zimmerman camp was that they DIDN'T WANT people filling in the blanks?

Or is filling in the blanks OK as long as the dead guy ends up as the bad guy, and the gunman ends up a hero?

 

[JR33]

So the timeline is like this:
7:11 PM: Zimmerman calls 911.

7:12 Phone records show Martins girlfriend is talking to him.

7:13 Zimmerman told to STOP FOLLOWING MARTIN.

7:15 Zimmerman hangs up with 911 operator.

7:16 Martin's phone line goes dead.

7:17 cops arrive on scene and find Martin dead.


Let's fill in the blanks:

7:11 PM: Zimmerman calls 911.
To report a suspicious person in his neighborhood as is normal with neighborhood watch. This particular neighborhood had a recent history of crime committed by criminals matching Martin's description.

7:12 Phone records show Martins girlfriend is talking to him.
During which his girlfriend said he should run but he refuses. Sounds more angry than scared about being watched.

7:13 Zimmerman told to STOP FOLLOWING MARTIN.

It was a SUGGESTION made by a 911 operator. No proof whatsoever has been offered to show Zimmerman didn't follow the ADVICE.

7:15 Zimmerman hangs up with 911 operator.

While on his way back to his truck. Nothing has been shown to prove otherwise.

7:16 Martin's phone line goes dead.

When he sees Zimmerman and decides to confront him. His phone falls to the ground as he attacks Zimmerman.

7:17 cops arrive on scene and find Martin dead.

And to find a bloody and beaten Zimmerman who didn't flee the scene. Why should he if he was defending himself. If he had "hunted" Martin down and killed him he would have fled the scene as killers do.

I would say this is true. Trayvon Martin was a troubled teen who got angry and attacked someone. Too bad he lost his life but GZ's wounds show he was attacked and would have suffered worse consequences if he hadn't have defended himself.

 

[clancy]

The media has led a slanted campaign against Zimmerman. Too many things don't add up if Zimmerman acted as the media would have you believe.

1) Who calls 911 to report a suspicious person they are "hunting down" to kill?
2) Who hangs around and waits for police after killing someone intentionally?
3) Who tells a witness to call police after they kill someone intentionally?

Those questions alone prove the prosecution's case isn't logical. Not to mention the eyewitnesses accounts, wounds on Zimmerman's head and grass stains on his back that support Zimmerman's account of what happened.

If you listen to the 911 call it sounds like Zimmerman stops running to follow Martin. But it really doesn't matter if Zimmerman was following Martin or not. That doesn't prove Zimmerman "hunted" Martin down and killed him and doesn't justify Martin's attack on Zimmerman.

 

[Aeval]

The media has led a slanted campaign against Zimmerman. Too many things don't add up if Zimmerman acted as the media would have you believe.

1) Who calls 911 to report a suspicious person they are "hunting down" to kill?
2) Who hangs around and waits for police after killing someone intentionally?
3) Who tells a witness to call police after they kill someone intentionally?

Those questions alone prove the prosecution's case isn't logical. Not to mention the eyewitnesses accounts, wounds on Zimmerman's head and grass stains on his back that support Zimmerman's account of what happened.

If you listen to the 911 call it sounds like Zimmerman stops running to follow Martin. But it really doesn't matter if Zimmerman was following Martin or not. That doesn't prove Zimmerman "hunted" Martin down and killed him and doesn't justify Martin's attack on Zimmerman.

That's the thing...we don't know if Martin "attacked" Zimmerman and we don't know if the physical altercation warranted Zimmerman shooting Martin.

Deadly force:

"776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if: (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.
History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27."

(Florida statute)

It has to be proven that Zimmerman feared for his life, basically.

There are no publically known facts to confirm that one way or the other.

 

[All Else Failed]

I thought the whole point of the pro- Zimmerman camp was that they DIDN'T WANT people filling in the blanks?

I'm not pro-Zimmerman or pro-Martin.

I'm pro-truth.


Anyways, filling in the blanks actually helps Zimmerman if anything. He will never get charged with murder 2 anyways.

 

[Tim]

I'm not pro-Zimmerman or pro-Martin.

I'm pro-truth.


Anyways, filling in the blanks actually helps Zimmerman if anything. He will never get charged with murder 2 anyways.

I don't see how it helps him.

He said he was heading back to his SUV when Martin attacked him. I don't see that working out with the very short timeline and the distance from his vehicle. It doesn't add up
Just play it out minute by minute, look at the distances traveled by each of them and where the altercation happened.

These are the things that don't add up for me... but we will need to wait until all of the facts come out and let a jury decide if it was a justified shooting. I wouldn't be surprised if he was found guilty of a lesser charge.

 

[clancy]

It has to be proven that Zimmerman feared for his life, basically.

There are no publically known facts to confirm that one way or the other.

I'd say the wounds on his head and nose along with the eyewitness who says Zimmerman getting beaten is proof enough. Nothing else really matters.

 

[The Man]

I don't see how it helps him.

He said he was heading back to his SUV when Martin attacked him. I don't see that working out with the very short timeline and the distance from his vehicle. It doesn't add up
Just play it out minute by minute, look at the distances traveled by each of them and where the altercation happened.

These are the things that don't add up for me... but we will need to wait until all of the facts come out and let a jury decide if it was a justified shooting. I wouldn't be surprised if he was found guilty of a lesser charge.

He should have been charged with a lesser crime to begin with.
There is nothing to show that he is a murderer.
It comes down to did he use excessive force during the fight {self defense}
This following shit makes no difference ..the fact he was a watchman makes no difference...the fact that martin was 17 makes no difference
The fact that the police told him we dont need you do do that makes no difference.
What martins GF makes no difference.
Who started it makes a little difference but doesnt solely determine the outcome.
You guys really need to accept this

If they had arrested him for manslaughter he would had a better chance of a fair trial...Over charging leads to sympathetic convictions of lesser crimes whether guilty or not.

So tim..in your opinion did he use excessive force given the situation.
You have to accept that he was getting his head beat as there is nothing to show otherwise.
Broken nose,fat lip and minor facial abrasions to go along with the head gashes.
The funeral parlor has already stated that martin didnt have a mark on him.
This would put george on the losing end from start to finish
Should he have kept fighting and hoped for the best...or was shooting him excessive.{it comes down the the head and sidewalk tim}

 

[Tim]

He should have been charged with a lesser crime to begin with.
There is nothing to show that he is a murderer.

I think you are hung up on the murder 2 charge. As others have pointed out, it's different in each state. Here in PA it may be called manslaughter while in FL it's called murder 2, both carrying the same sentence.

It comes down to did he use excessive force during the fight {self defense}
This following shit makes no difference ..the fact he was a watchman makes no difference...the fact that martin was 17 makes no difference
The fact that the police told him we dont need you do do that makes no difference.
What martins GF makes no difference.
Who started it makes a little difference but doesnt solely determine the outcome.
You guys really need to accept this

Absolutely it makes a difference. Everything is considered when determining the chain of events that lead to the shooting.

So tim..in your opinion did he use excessive force given the situation.

I can't answer that.

That's something that needs to be determined by the jury.

I don't know if Zimmerman's story is true and I don't put a lot of weight behind it since we can ONLY hear his side and not Martin's.
I don't think that Zimmerman was beat up as bad as you guys make it out. There is nothing life threatening from the wounds he received. I have seen my share of fights/bumps/bruises and those were pretty pale in comparison.
A broken nose isn't life threatening and neither are cuts on the head. He didn't have a skull fracture or concussion, so his head wasn't hit that hard.

So do I think he used excessive force......? Maybe

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

The one possibility (which is still very possible) that you REFUSE to look at is that Zimmerman, like he has said, was walking back to his SUV AFTER he said "okay" to the 9/11 operator who told him that he shouldn't follow. If Martin reengaged Zimmerman (Zimmerman was recorded as to have lost him when he was following Martin) and caused a physical confrontation and Zimmerman had the belief that his bodily well-being was in danger, Zimmerman can be pretty damn innocent for shooting Martin out of defense.

Quiet literally, the fact that Zimmerman started to follow Martin before the shooting DOESN'T MATTER.




Yet you have no god damn clue as to what happened after martin AGREED to stop following martin and after Zimmerman told the operator that he lost him and that he was returning to his SUV.

Ahem......remember this?

See this is where your argument fails along with everyone else's. You're assuming you know Zimmerman's personal thoughts. You assume you know what he would have done.

Why is it okay for you to second-guess Zimmerman in order to defend him?

You claim to be pro-truth, but nowhere in the multiple posts you have made in this thread do you consider for a second the possibility that Zimmerman exceeded his legal rights, nor do you have the balls to question whether the law as it stands is adequate.

 

[clancy]

He should have been charged with a lesser crime to begin with.
There is nothing to show that he is a murderer.
It comes down to did he use excessive force during the fight {self defense}
This following shit makes no difference ..the fact he was a watchman makes no difference...the fact that martin was 17 makes no difference
The fact that the police told him we dont need you do do that makes no difference.
What martins GF makes no difference.
Who started it makes a little difference but doesnt solely determine the outcome.
You guys really need to accept this

If they had arrested him for manslaughter he would had a better chance of a fair trial...Over charging leads to sympathetic convictions of lesser crimes whether guilty or not.

So tim..in your opinion did he use excessive force given the situation.
You have to accept that he was getting his head beat as there is nothing to show otherwise.
Broken nose,fat lip and minor facial abrasions to go along with the head gashes.
The funeral parlor has already stated that martin didnt have a mark on him.
This would put george on the losing end from start to finish
Should he have kept fighting and hoped for the best...or was shooting him excessive.{it comes down the the head and sidewalk tim}

You are correct. It makes no difference because it doesn't prove the prosecution's case.