Is piracy stealing?

[SgtSpike]

I'm a case in point.

I once downloaded an album illegally off the internet. A Tim Buckley album. Within a month I had that artists entire back catalogue on CD (except the two albums not available on CD anymore.)
So yes I stole something, but I don't think Elektra or the Buckley estate will mind too much.

There are always going to be people like me who have to have albums in physical format, be it on CD or vinyl.

I know that doesn't account for everyone in this world who 'steals.' But it's the perfect example that the figures branded about by various music authorities about how many billion $$$ they lose each year is bollocks.

Yes, and lots of people use this argument.

Lots of people also download another 10,000 songs BESIDES the ones they actually go out and buy on CD.

And the figures about how many billions of dollars they lose each year - it's completely valid. Just because you bought a CD after you stole it online doesn't mean that anyone else did the same thing. Even if 1 out of every 10 songs that was stolen online ended up in a resultant sale of the song, they would still be losing billions on the other 9/10 songs.

 

[SgtSpike]

yeah, you're making a copy for yourself, not stealing somebody elses (which would deny them of their copy). Piracy is so easy when things are in digital media. If you could somehow duplicate somebodys tv, would that be stealing? you didn't take their tv, you just made a duplicate. What about when you photocopy something out of a book so that you can have a copy for yourself - is that stealing?

Making a copy of copyrighted material without the owner's permission has always been against the law and considerd stealing. I'm not sure why/how the transition to digital media makes it ok now...

 

[Strauss]

Making a copy of copyrighted material without the owner's permission has always been against the law and considerd stealing. I'm not sure why/how the transition to digital media makes it ok now...

It doesn't, it just changes the object which is being stolen.

 

[Haus]

so is this illegal all over the world??

 

[CaseHD]

Agreed, with digital media its more of an issue of rights and permissions to use. To people producing the media, the concern is that it takes money away from them, but honestly, if it wasn't available free, I probably wouldn't buy it unless I really wanted it. Piracy is so big right now because its more a matter of convenience to have the item rather than actual need. The whole supply and demand aspect is not as clear. Another question that come into play - once you have the item/media, do you distribute it, or do you quietly keep it to yourself (relates to tree falling in the woods predicament). We all know that if you make a presentation you must give proper accreditation to other people ideas that you have used. But this is only if you're presenting it. All in all, back to the point, to me piracy is not stealing, stealing seems more clear cut. Piracy is more like a proliferation of unlicensed material, which as a consequence increases its supply and lowers its demand.

On a related note, it kinda angers me that movies and cd's are priced ridiculously high. If they were around 5 to 10 bucks i'd buy them. Personally I think that the movie industry has way too much money already and are pissed that their billions of dollers is starting to turn into millions, while the average joe gets to save some money in his pocket. (now i sound like obama)

 

[SgtSpike]

so is this illegal all over the world??

Technically, yes. I believe there is an international law about it, but I'm not sure how that all works.

 

[CaseHD]

that reply was for strauss btw

 

[SgtSpike]

On a related note, it kinda angers me that movies and cd's are priced ridiculously high. If they were around 5 to 10 bucks i'd buy them. Personally I think that the movie industry has way too much money already and are pissed that their billions of dollers is starting to turn into millions, while the average joe gets to save some money in his pocket. (now i sound like obama)

I always think it's funny when pirates say this, because it's pretty much because of them that movies/games/music ARE priced that high. They have to price them that high, because otherwise they wouldn't make enough money with all the piracy going on!

And the movie industry does make millions of dollars on some movies, but at the same time, they lose millions on others. Just because their revenues are high doesn't mean their profits are just as high. They've got to pay actors, staff, equipment, etc. It takes millions to make a decent movie, so they have to make millions to pay for it.

 

[CaseHD]

Making a copy of copyrighted material without the owner's permission has always been against the law and considerd stealing. I'm not sure why/how the transition to digital media makes it ok now...

I'm aware of what the law states, I was under the impression that I was being asked what my opinion was, which is a difference between stealing and piracy.

 

[CaseHD]

And the movie industry does make millions of dollars on some movies, but at the same time, they lose millions on others. Just because their revenues are high doesn't mean their profits are just as high. They've got to pay actors, staff, equipment, etc. It takes millions to make a decent movie, so they have to make millions to pay for it.

Maybe its cost millions to produce because everything in the industry is priced so high. Does an actor really need to make millions on one movie?

 

[Strauss]

We all know that if you make a presentation you must give proper accreditation to other people ideas that you have used. But this is only if you're presenting it. All in all, back to the point, to me piracy is not stealing, stealing seems more clear cut. Piracy is more like a proliferation of unlicensed material, which as a consequence increases its supply and lowers its demand.

On a related note, it kinda angers me that movies and cd's are priced ridiculously high. If they were around 5 to 10 bucks i'd buy them. Personally I think that the movie industry has way too much money already and are pissed that their billions of dollers is starting to turn into millions, while the average joe gets to save some money in his pocket. (now i sound like obama)

You are paying for piracy which is one of the factors leading to higher costs. Stealing isn't a difficult concept....taking that which does not belong to you. You can attempt to justify it by redefining what constitutes theft but its still theft. You (that is an editorial you) took what did not belong to you. Its simple, not as hard as people make it out to be.

 

[Ryder]

Simple question - is piracy stealing? As in, if you download a song from the internet illegally, do you consider it to be the same as stealing something that is non-digital?

Many of you already know my position on this, that I believe it 100% to be stealing, but I noticed several of you do not share the same view. Why do you believe piracy is not a form of stealing?

Course it is.

 

[SgtSpike]

Maybe its cost millions to produce because everything in the industry is priced so high. Does an actor really need to make millions on one movie?

It's a free market - if the producers of the movie think an actor is worth millions, then they will pay millions to hire an actor.

Also, many top-end actors will receive many offers to act in many different movies. How do they pick? Sometimes, just because they like the movie itself, but most of the time, they base it on the cash paid for the job. So, if a producer wants to have a known name in their film, they don't have a choice but to pay millions for that actor, or else that actor will go act in a different movie.

It's wierd I even have to explain this stuff. I mean, it's seriously elementary economics. Doesn't get much simpler than supply and demand, and its effect on prices.

 

[Peter Parka]

It's wierd I even have to explain this stuff. I mean, it's seriously elementary economics. Doesn't get much simpler than supply and demand, and its effect on prices.

I agree, something which rip off PPV and Sky hads yet to understand. They cant beat it but refuse to join it.

 

[CaseHD]

It's wierd I even have to explain this stuff. I mean, it's seriously elementary economics. Doesn't get much simpler than supply and demand, and its effect on prices.

You dont have to explain it actually, i'm perfectly aware of economics, although if it makes you feel like you're points are more compelling be my guest. All I'm saying is that its absurd how much they make. I dont think its fair to charge 20 bucks for a movie, and I'm glad piracy is around so that ordinary people can save a buck on a movie thats most likely a waste of time to watch, or a cd that has only 3 songs that are good and a whole bunch of others put on there to fill the album. Online music stores are a step in the right direction, because you can purchase what you want for less.

 

[SgtSpike]

You dont have to explain it actually, i'm perfectly aware of economics, although if it makes you feel like you're points are more compelling be my guest. All I'm saying is that its absurd how much they make. I dont think its fair to charge 20 bucks for a movie, and I'm glad piracy is around so that ordinary people can save a buck on a movie thats most likely a waste of time to watch, or a cd that has only 3 songs that are good and a whole bunch of others put on there to fill the album. Online music stores are a step in the right direction, because you can purchase what you want for less.

Wow, you really just don't get it do you?

Price has nothing to do with "fairness". If enough people are willing to pay a particular price for a particular good, then the good will be priced at that price. You aren't being forced to buy the goods, and if you think it is overpriced - fine, don't buy it.

Heck, I don't think that $50/mo for internet is a fair price, but that is what the cable company chooses to price it at. They could price it at $500/mo if they wanted, or $1/mo. But they choose $50/mo because that is what the market will pay. If people stop paying that much, then they will lower the price until they get customers back.

You can't say that you understand free-market economics while also saying that prices for a particular good should be lower because of "fairness". It's moronic, at best.

 

[CaseHD]

Wow you think youre the shit dont you. I get why things are priced, and i'm not arguing against the principles of economics. I'm doing exactly what you suggested I do, I'm NOT BUYING it. And a lot of people aren't, which should lower the price of the commodities like movies and cd's, (yet thats not happening). I never argued things should be priced on fairness, I said that I DONT THINK its fair, so i'm not buying it, so thank god for an option like piracy.

 

[SgtSpike]

Wow you think youre the shit dont you. I get why things are priced, and i'm not arguing against the principles of economics. I'm doing exactly what you suggested I do, I'm NOT BUYING it. And a lot of people aren't, which should lower the price of the commodities like movies and cd's, (yet thats not happening). I never argued things should be priced on fairness, I said that I DONT THINK its fair, so i'm not buying it, so thank god for an option like piracy.

Lots of people ARE buying movies and games and CD's at their current prices. You don't know what you're talking about. There's still a good portion of people in this world with some sense of morality who refuse to steal media online, and they go out and purchase them instead.

And piracy shouldn't be an option - that's the whole point. If you aren't willing to pay the cash to buy it, you shouldn't be willing to pirate it either. It's stealing, and it should be wrong in the mind of anyone but a criminal. And yes, I (and the good ol' USA) consider you a criminal.

 

[Fox Mulder]

You dont have to explain it actually, i'm perfectly aware of economics, although if it makes you feel like you're points are more compelling be my guest. All I'm saying is that its absurd how much they make. I dont think its fair to charge 20 bucks for a movie, and I'm glad piracy is around so that ordinary people can save a buck on a movie thats most likely a waste of time to watch, or a cd that has only 3 songs that are good and a whole bunch of others put on there to fill the album. Online music stores are a step in the right direction, because you can purchase what you want for less.

So because you don't think its fair to charge $20, that means it OK to steal it? I don't think its fair to be charged for many things I am charged for. I don't think its fair what I am charged in taxes--doesn't give me the right to cheat on my taxes and pay what I think it fair. And BTW--anyone who pays $20 for a movie is an idiot. They can be had for $4 or $5 if you wait long enough after its released and most can be had for $10 very soon after the movie is released so I don't know where you're getting this $20 from.

What you don't realize is the piracy is costing ordinary people more not less. The only one benefitting from the piracy is the crook that's doing it. Sort of like calling a guy who knocks off a liquor store an "ordinary" guy!

 

[CaseHD]

Lots of people ARE buying movies and games and CD's at their current prices. You don't know what you're talking about. There's still a good portion of people in this world with some sense of morality who refuse to steal media online, and they go out and purchase them instead.

And piracy shouldn't be an option - that's the whole point. If you aren't willing to pay the cash to buy it, you shouldn't be willing to pirate it either. It's stealing, and it should be wrong in the mind of anyone but a criminal. And yes, I (and the good ol' USA) consider you a criminal.

Fine call me a criminal, i'll call you a tool. If I had extra money lying around I would by the album that I want. I mean its not like I dont like owning an original copy of something, case and booklet and all. But just because I dont have the cash doesn't mean I should be deprived of listening to the album. The artists, and huge production cooperation behind him wouldn't have gotten my money anyways. I'm not gonna lose sleep over it, and I'm sorry that you have such large moral obligations to coorperation that probably could care less about you.