Is it time to legalize pot and reduce the death rate of tobacco and alcohol?

[Stone]

I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm simply stating my opinion, which happens to differ from yours. I realize that you can't understand that concept, much like you can't understand the difference between opinion and fact.

We already have legal drug usage in the US. That is a fact. My opinion that the government should not make any drugs illegal is based on that fact, but it is strictly my opinion and not fact. Hopefully that simplifies things enough so that you're actually able to comprehend the difference.

I'm not trying to prove anything.

That's a relief

I'm simply stating my opinion, which happens to differ from yours.

But as shown....your opinions are illogical, wrong and in one ...almost 2...instance, insane.
Is it genetic?
Cincy public schools haven't been known for that depth of incompetence .
Or did you go to school else where?

......you can't understand the difference between opinion and fact.

Why do hate logic so much?

We already have legal drug usage in the US.

Ah!....now it becomes clearer.....issues of reading comprehension.
This isn't the typical pot thread.
The thread starter has theorized a plan to swap the abuse of harmful drugs used for abuse for less harmful drugs used for abuse.
Can you understand that simple concept?

The thread starter proposes legal medical prescriptions for the purpose of abuse.

Do you get it now?

This thread is all about abusing drugs.

 

[Stone]

Back to the theme of the thread....cigarettes kill and so does booze...lets legalize pot.


Guns kill ...people kill...lets legalize beating the shit out of someone :tooth

Gotta go now.....back later

 

[satinbutterfly]

You can lead a horse to water... *sigh*

First of all, stop putting words in my mouth. I never advocated for the deregulation of prescription medication. Second of all, I'm not defending the OP's position. I'm simply stating my opinion, which is complete legalization of all current illegal drugs (which includes, but isn't limited to, pot).

I've never stated anything but exactly my opinion and I've never said anything about what the OP thinks. Had you actually read my posts or had the intelligence to understand them, you would have seen that.

 

[The Man]

My point is I don't believe it's the government's right to tell me what I can put in my body. They can, however, tell me that I'm not allowed to operate heavy machinery because I then become a danger to others, which is in their right to protect. They cannot, however, protect me from myself, nor should they try. Obviously they really don't have it right anyways since the drug that kills the most people is legal and the one that kills none isn't.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but then again, I don't equate guns being legal with allowing people to beat the crap out of each other either. :24:

Sure they do.
Man is sober...logic tells him to not drink and drive...it is his belief...As long as he is sober his judgement is good
That man gets drunks and loses reasoning..the drunker he gets the less he gives a shit and drinks and drives..endangering a society.

I understand your argument of its your body you will do with it as you wish...The problem is while in an altered state of mind you have become a danger to society with lowered inhibitions of expectations within your placement in society.

And yes protecting one from ones self already exists..its against the law to commit suicide for example..however the prosecution doesnt pursue the case.

People are put in nut houses for instance as it is for their best interest and that of society.

You are also protected at work from those under the influence....as well as laws regarding safety...just because you want to stick your hand in the press doesnt mean you get to operate it without the restraints .

The same arguments goes back to vehicle safety...if your cars suspension is worn and dangerous it is everybody business and it will not pass.

Your argument is based solely upon your preference and disregards society as a whole with the implications it has to society

 

[satinbutterfly]

Are you saying that anyone who gets drunk will drink and drive? Seriously? I can speak from experience when I get drunk I won't drive. Period. So you are completely and utterly wrong to say that EVERYONE who gets drunk will drive. That's not the case. Someone simply being in an altered state of mind does not endanger society. If you had any experience with it you would know that's not the case. Unless of course you're the type of person who uses the 'altered state' excuse to excuse your ridiculous behavior while intoxicated.

I realize the government already tries to protect us from ourselves. I just disagree that they should do so.

And actually my opinion isn't based on my preference. I don't use illegal drugs. I just don't believe in the government's right to tell me I can't.

 

[The Man]

You can lead a horse to water... *sigh*

First of all, stop putting words in my mouth. I never advocated for the deregulation of prescription medication. Second of all, I'm not defending the OP's position. I'm simply stating my opinion, which is complete legalization of all current illegal drugs (which includes, but isn't limited to, pot).

I've never stated anything but exactly my opinion and I've never said anything about what the OP thinks. Had you actually read my posts or had the intelligence to understand them, you would have seen that.

I am not aware of anyone putting words in your mouth.
Your argument is clear.
"its my body I should be able to do what I want"
"We already have legal drugs..lets make them all legal"

Not only does your position defends the OP position..it goes further to make all drugs legal.
Your defense therefore includes the OP with your current argument.

Your posts are very clear on the matter..if you deny such I will copy and paste them here ...but IMO this shouldn't be necessary.

Denial seems to be your strategy here but has no gain in a debate setting as shown by your current exhibition of said posts

 

[satinbutterfly]

I am not aware of anyone putting words in your mouth.
Your argument is clear.
"its my body I should be able to do what I want"
"We already have legal drugs..lets make them all legal"

Not only does your position defends the OP position..it goes further to make all drugs legal.
Your defense therefore includes the OP with your current argument.

Your posts are very clear on the matter..if you deny such I will copy and paste them here ...but IMO this shouldn't be necessary.

Denial seems to be your strategy here but has no gain in a debate setting as shown by your current exhibition of said posts

My opinion is completely different than that of the OP and doesn't even come close to defending the OP's position. He wants to make only POT legal, and everything else illegal, because POT doesn't cause harm like legal drugs like alcohol and cigarettes. I don't think ANY DRUG should be illegal because I don't believe the government should have the power to make them illegal. Very very different things for very different reasons and very clearly stated. However, considering your complete lack of intelligence, I can see why you'd be confused.

Denial of what, exactly?

 

[The Man]

Are you saying that anyone who gets drunk will drink and drive? Seriously? I can speak from experience when I get drunk I won't drive. Period. So you are completely and utterly wrong to say that EVERYONE who gets drunk will drive. That's not the case. Someone simply being in an altered state of mind does not endanger society. If you had any experience with it you would know that's not the case. Unless of course you're the type of person who uses the 'altered state' excuse to excuse your ridiculous behavior while intoxicated.

I realize the government already tries to protect us from ourselves. I just disagree that they should do so.

And actually my opinion isn't based on my preference. I don't use illegal drugs. I just don't believe in the government's right to tell me I can't.

Are you saying that anyone who gets drunk will drink and drive? Seriously? I can speak from experience when I get drunk I won't drive. Period.

Whether drive or not doesnt negate the fact that many do...as that is who the law is aimed at
None the less if you dont drink and drive then should have no issues with the law.

So you are completely and utterly wrong to say that EVERYONE who gets drunk will drive.

I have not stated such..the law is designed for those that do...if people didnt drink and drive we wouldnt need the law would we?

Someone simply being in an altered state of mind does not endanger society.

True
However an altered state of mind clouds reasoning that can cause one to be a danger to society

If you had any experience with it you would know that's not the case.

History has shown that if you cant walk or talk straight..ones driving will be similar..personal experience wouldn't negate the norm,regardless.

Unless of course you're the type of person who uses the 'altered state' excuse to excuse your ridiculous behavior while intoxicated.

I have,
Thus know from experience that an altered state of mind does alter behavior

 

[The Doc]

Been reading some posts, missed out on a couple pages... but you all are aware the pushers are already at your children? Im all for the decriminalization of marijuana as long as all that "Medical Marijuana" bullshit is done and over with. Its an insult to the healthcare industry

 

[Jaybird]

If you are looking for perfection, I suggest you try building your own society.
As many mistakes that are currently made, your argument is a call for the end of a democratic society with a representative form of government....and has more faults than what exists.



That I can agree with.


Currently, the voter has been choosing differently.

Why should I need to build my own society? We have a pretty good one. Its not perfect, and I never said I wanted nor was demanding perfection. What I would like to see is our government to get out of my bedroom, my backyard, my body, and my life as much as possible. The Constitution was not designed to be used to control its subjects. The Constitution was meant to control the government. That needs to be remembered. For when citizens fail to remember that, and allow the government to run rampant, then they turn themselves into subjects.

But the bottom line is.....Marijuana is no more 'dangerous' than many other things that are currently legal....not 'decriminalized'....LEGAL.

There really is only one reason MJ was made illegal. The government took advantage of the racism of the day, fueled by Hearst's control over the media at the time.

But none of that should even matter. If I want to juggle flaming gasoline soaked knives in my backyard....I should be able to. If I want to grow a plant and smoke its parts in my backyard....I should be able to.

If it is not effecting you, than get out of my business.

 

[The Man]

My opinion is completely different than that of the OP and doesn't even come close to defending the OP's position. He wants to make only POT legal, and everything else illegal, because POT doesn't cause harm like legal drugs like alcohol and cigarettes. I don't think ANY DRUG should be illegal because I don't believe the government should have the power to make them illegal. Very very different things for very different reasons and very clearly stated. However, considering your complete lack of intelligence, I can see why you'd be confused.

Denial of what, exactly?

My opinion is completely different than that of the OP and doesn't even come close to defending the OP's position. He wants to make only POT legal,

And you want to make it all legal...which would include pot..thus your argument not only supports his argument but yet expands on it to make it all legal.

Let me break it down for you.

Little leroy{OP} says "I support shooting at the park {make pot legal}"
You say "I support shooting any damn where I want"{make all drugs legal}

As we can see that would also support shooting at the park...thats a fact as well and not an opinion.

I don't think ANY DRUG should be illegal because I don't believe the government should have the power to make them illegal.

Great you propose a free for all with drugs...I do hope you do understand why people go to med school.
In addition to all the dangers listed the last couple pages there is also drug interactions to worry about as well.
One should not be trying to self diagnose and treat.

Denial of what, exactly?

More denial

Very very different things for very different reasons and very clearly stated. However, considering your complete lack of intelligence, I can see why you'd be confused.

You appear to have a clouded observation of what has transpired..you may want to reread what you post

 

[The Man]

You appear distraught and frustrated as your fallacious arguments didnt hold water.

Remember if you are going to throw rocks at a cave man....he is going to use that big stuck and knock em out of the park

Does anyone see why I should receive negative rep with this post?

It is my second red rep since I have been here,,the first one was a few days after I joined and was due to a misunderstanding in personal nature.

Does the above post have any dangerous advice?
Is it a troll post?

No it is merely a response to a character attack..but since I didnt take the bait...I get red rep?
Perhaps I should go smoke one then re evaluate the post as I just am not seeing it.

 

[retro]

Been reading some posts, missed out on a couple pages... but you all are aware the pushers are already at your children? Im all for the decriminalization of marijuana as long as all that "Medical Marijuana" bullshit is done and over with. Its an insult to the healthcare industry

Tell that to the numerous physicians and actual health care professionals that disagree with you.

There's one very obvious "insult" to the health care industry in this thread... and it isn't medical marijuana.

 

[Stone]

A good point ... moderation is important with anything.

Indeed.......if our society treated drugs with wise moderation, concerning prescription, over the counter and even illegal drugs, there wouldn't be necessary drug legislation to begin with.

But humans are often irrational, as this thread so well proves.

 

[Stone]

Actually I'm not. I just know when to stop beating a dead horse. If you don't understand the difference between proving something (like, with facts and stuff) and stating your opinion you're not worth my time.

And cavemen don't play baseball.

Distraught, confused, ignorant of the thread topic, irrational about rejecting logic, full of opinions shown to be flawed ( wrong, wrong and wrong again )

and you think others are beating a dead horse?

Get a mirror :24:

 

[Stone]

You didn't prove anything. You simply stated your opinions differed from me and why. At least I'm intelligent enough to know the difference. I actually do feel sorry for you.

Your are merely in denial of being shown up for the flit head that you are.

At least I'm intelligent enough to know the difference.

LOL....you don't even know what this thread is about

 

[Stone]

My point is I don't believe it's the government's right to tell me what I can put in my body. They can, however, tell me that I'm not allowed to operate heavy machinery because I then become a danger to others, which is in their right to protect. They cannot, however, protect me from myself, nor should they try. Obviously they really don't have it right anyways since the drug that kills the most people is legal and the one that kills none isn't.

Doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but then again, I don't equate guns being legal with allowing people to beat the crap out of each other either. :24:

My point is I don't believe it's the government's right to tell me what I can put in my body.

Again....your opinion is wrong.
The Federal and State governments have the right to intercede under certain circumstances and it is constitutional.
See...I again prove you WRONG.

They can, however, tell me that I'm not allowed to operate heavy machinery because I then become a danger to others, which is in their right to protect.

That would be mostly the State position and yes, they can do that too....... it's irrelevant to the first part of your argument but a reason why the Feds and the State don't want a drugged out 'satinbutterfly' mingling with society......you're be an unacceptable risk to society and obviously reneging on your responsibilities to that society that you so dearly depend upon.

There....I just showed you libertarian logic of why drug abuse can be regulated.
Of course, it conflicts with most of other dumb ass libertarian values at the same time.

Libertarian philosophy is illogical.

Wouldn't that make you a dumb ass follower?

Obviously they really don't have it right anyways since the drug that kills the most people is legal and the one that kills none isn't.

Wanker logic
Have you ever considered critical thinking as a means to better understand reality and the association of events and causation?

I forgot.....you don't do logic

LOL!

 

[Stone]

Are you saying that anyone who gets drunk will drink and drive? Seriously? I can speak from experience when I get drunk I won't drive. Period. So you are completely and utterly wrong to say that EVERYONE who gets drunk will drive. That's not the case. Someone simply being in an altered state of mind does not endanger society. If you had any experience with it you would know that's not the case. Unless of course you're the type of person who uses the 'altered state' excuse to excuse your ridiculous behavior while intoxicated.

I realize the government already tries to protect us from ourselves. I just disagree that they should do so.

And actually my opinion isn't based on my preference. I don't use illegal drugs. I just don't believe in the government's right to tell me I can't.

? I can speak from experience when I get drunk I won't drive.

Well....that explains for a lot of your posts

Someone simply being in an altered state of mind does not endanger society.

Just look at how much you are attempting right now.
Come clean.....you're smoking right now, aren't you?

 

[Stone]

Been reading some posts, missed out on a couple pages... but you all are aware the pushers are already at your children? Im all for the decriminalization of marijuana as long as all that "Medical Marijuana" bullshit is done and over with. Its an insult to the healthcare industry

That pisses me off , too.
They take advantage of a situation where real people are really suffering and bend it to address their desire to abuse it for recreation.

 

[Stone]

Why should I need to build my own society? We have a pretty good one. Its not perfect, and I never said I wanted nor was demanding perfection. What I would like to see is our government to get out of my bedroom, my backyard, my body, and my life as much as possible. The Constitution was not designed to be used to control its subjects. The Constitution was meant to control the government. That needs to be remembered. For when citizens fail to remember that, and allow the government to run rampant, then they turn themselves into subjects.

But the bottom line is.....Marijuana is no more 'dangerous' than many other things that are currently legal....not 'decriminalized'....LEGAL.

There really is only one reason MJ was made illegal. The government took advantage of the racism of the day, fueled by Hearst's control over the media at the time.

But none of that should even matter. If I want to juggle flaming gasoline soaked knives in my backyard....I should be able to. If I want to grow a plant and smoke its parts in my backyard....I should be able to.

If it is not effecting you, than get out of my business.

Why should I need to build my own society?

It's all about the concept of a democratic society.
We presently have one ( not to be confused with our representative form of government )

If you don't want to abide by that concept, you are certainly free to leave and join one of your needs or leave and create your own.

What I would like to see is our government to get out of my bedroom, my backyard, my body, and my life as much as possible.

I can respect that.....but on the issue of drug abuse, it's also an issue that affects a society.
So it's necessary to view the impact of the individual versus the impact on all individuals that comprise that society.
That's where voting and representation come in. Activities seen as unhealthy/destructive to the society are generally restricted by a consensus of that society.

And that why coffee isn't on the restricted list, but highly caffeinated sweet drinks are likely to be controlled in the near future. Not so mush the issue to the individual, more what presents health risks to a class of citizens....in this case the youth .

The Constitution was not designed to be used to control its subjects.

Not as an absolute, agreed.
But there is language there to protect a society, also.
While the Supreme Court has decided drug controls through interstate trade, if I remember correctly......


......the First Amendment Article 1 Section 8 starts out:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;........................

provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States is all about protecting our society.
And that includes issues of allowing the establishment of a culture of drug abuse.

But the bottom line is.....Marijuana is no more 'dangerous' than many other things that are currently legal....not 'decriminalized'....LEGAL.

You are repeating yourself.
And as replied....the my argument goes not so much to the individual, it's about the impact on society.
In that regard, an example would be.... recreational pot abuse is much more dangerous to a society ( remember the Rand report I referred to ) than one person consuming too much coffee.....even more dangerous than a society of coffee drinkers would be to them selves.
So....it's a relative issue on the level of a society.

There really is only one reason MJ was made illegal. The government took advantage of the racism of the day, fueled by Hearst's control over the media at the time.

That's an old argument.
Fitting then as the nation didn't have the modern day drug problem.
But all it is today is history, not a representation of why we need to legalize recreational pot.

If I want to juggle flaming gasoline soaked knives in my backyard....I should be able to.

Let me know how that works.
Send me a letter.
I'll know it's from you because the return address will be of a mental institution

But I do agree that the government has become too intrusive.

If it is not effecting you, than get out of my business.

You can leave this society anytime you please or try to change it's decisions about regulating drug abuse......but anytime you...YOU.... promote, induce any concept that that is hazardous to the society I live in.....it is my business. I assure you, I won't leave on your logic. It's horribly flawed.