Is it time to legalize pot and reduce the death rate of tobacco and alcohol?

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The Man

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She has 2, but one is an ignorant uneducated blind accepter of everything religious and swallows the southern gospel evangelican mantra with a dash of "I heard it on TV".
Her other sister is an inhuman bitch, who believes that her slightly upper middle class standing gives her superiority over everyone in her family, and tried to get my wife to quit college and work in fast food because she was "abusing the welfare system" and "harming her children" by being in school. She is a right wing nut with no reason to be!

but you can have at either of them!!! :yuk:willy_nilly:

I will take em both
 

Greatest I am

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That you refuse to comment and continue an argument for drug abuse and addiction is telling of your intentions.

That is because I have read the best of government's and inteligentia's reports and agree with them.
Still too lazy to read the L'Edain Royal Commission report I see.

Regards
DL
 

Greatest I am

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I don't think people can get addicted to pot and they certainly don't go out and committ crime to get money for it.....maybe lay in bed and forget to work, but committ crime for it....naaaa. Alcohol effect people in more unpredictable ways.

I agree except for saying that pot is not addictive.
It is.
A lower level of addiction than the more damaging ones for sure but addiction nevertheless.

Experts place tobacco as the greatest killer, alcohol as second worse and these two do more damage than all the other illegal drugs put together.

Rather insane to legalize the worse and leave the less damaging drugs illegal.

Regards
DL
 

Greatest I am

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Thanks.

Could you imagine the extra burden the inflated medical costs from the social impact of legalizing drug abuse and addiction, would impose on the tax payers in the up and coming Obamacare?
Innocent taxpayers essentially become the financial slaves to an expanding culture of drug abuse and addiction.

Imagine putting all the tax $$$ we now waste on a failed prohibition system and give it to the medical system that most intelligent reports say is better equipped to deal with addiction than the police.

A smart move to any intelligent person.

Regards
DL
 

Greatest I am

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Legalizing marijuana is a much different discussion then legalizing all drugs correct? The position for the legalization of marijuana has heaps of research done to support their cause, despite the slightly less research done against it. The effects of marijuana are less lethal in it's current form than ciggarrettes and despite the effect of the high, it causes less problems then alcohol(I.E. you can't die while in DT for weed)
That being said, the argument to legalize ALL drugs(cocaine, heroin, Meth, etc..) has much less weight due to the much more harmful effects of those "harder drugs".
Right? :naughty

Wrong according to experts.

You will note if you have read any government reports, that they usually extend the conversation to multi-drug use, which is quite common, and point to the fact that part of their legalization program must include all drugs if the pusher problem is to go away. That problem is key if we are to do what we want and cut access to our children.

Regards
DL
 

Greatest I am

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while I agree with your sentiments about drug use/abuse and it's detrimental effects on society, I have to argue with your semantics on this particular quote. The escape of Slaves from southern USA, pre-emancipation, was detrimental to society as it stood at that time and you don't here anyone arguing here that said emancipation and previous escapes should be considered criminal. Labor camps, Sweatshops, etc. could be considered beneficial to a society as they bring in a large amount of labor to build capital, as well as providing jobs to those who may not have them otherwise(in terms of sweatshops). Nobody would argue their criminalization.

Drug abuse and it's illegalization should be considered soley for the benefit of the harmful properties to those affected by the drug use, including consideration for the vicitms of crimes commited by those under the influence of said drugs. Societies are adaptable to most any given circumstances and will fundamentally react and adjust to problems caused by drug abuse, however the individual who suffer should be given protection.

Under our medical system and not our legal one, I agree.

Regards
DL
 

Stone

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That is because I have read the best of government's and inteligentia's reports and agree with them.
Still too lazy to read the L'Edain Royal Commission report I see.

Regards
DL


I see you're still too lazy to read the links to Portugal's success with decriminalization......or perhaps you figure you can deny it enough times someone starts to believe you ( me shudders at the thought of that :D )


Anyway....I've already commented in the past to the Canadian articles you posted and as I remember, decriminalization was inferred.
 

Greatest I am

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I see you're still too lazy to read the links to Portugal's success with decriminalization......or perhaps you figure you can deny it enough times someone starts to believe you ( me shudders at the thought of that :D )


Anyway....I've already commented in the past to the Canadian articles you posted and as I remember, decriminalization was inferred.

I do not deny that decriminalization will benefit us.

I just also recognize that full legalization is required and would be our admission that prohibition has never worked and that that whole system of social manipulation and control should be scrapped as we only hurt ourselves with trying to implement prohibitions that do not have public support. Prohibition is a government tool to put control of the black market in their hidden hands.

Who are the greatest drug pushers if not governments?

Regards
DL
 

Stone

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I agree except for saying that pot is not addictive.
It is.
A lower level of addiction than the more damaging ones for sure but addiction nevertheless.

Experts place tobacco as the greatest killer, alcohol as second worse and these two do more damage than all the other illegal drugs put together.

Rather insane to legalize the worse and leave the less damaging drugs illegal.

Regards
DL


The issue remains.....the issue is largely psychological ....I'll refer to that Rand report again.....the decision to use pot for recreation is, in general, one of entering into and experiencing a culture of drug abuse with out the intense risks associated with cocaine and like hard drugs.
As such....your arguments are in support of creating a destructive element to legally create a society influenced by drug abuse and addiction.
IMO...it goes hand in hand with the radical religious beliefs you promote in bizarre fashion.

Let me ask you 'the question'. Do you support a culture of drug abuse and addiction as a means to expand your religious beliefs, or are your religious beliefs a means to legalize drug abuse and addiction? Or.......?


Rather insane to legalize the worse and leave the less damaging drugs illegal.
Perhaps you forgot your post to Accountable in another thread where you stated hard drugs should be legalized?
There's a term for for the manner in which you post.......'disingenuous'.
Here's insanity......dealing poorly on a societal level with one addiction ( alcohol as I recently posted ) and adding more drug abuse to the 'legal list'.
 

Greatest I am

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In your world, there is no psychotropic drug use. Just drug abuse.

You think all drug use is evil and only want to decriminalize to save your foolish position.

Regards
DL
 

Stone

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Like they did with alcohol. Right?

Wrong.

Regards
DL

The black market issue in regards to recreational pot was addressed in the last Rand report.......it will continue and I've made no claims to tax avoidance with alcohol .
In the Appalachian states and parts of the midwest....much of the tax avoidance is through the distilling of what is called moonshine and it's still illegal and still big business in Appalachia. Mostly family operations :D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonshine_by_country#United_States

And tax avoidance of legally manufactured tobacco products is still going on in the US:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_market#Alcohol_and_tobacco
excerpts:
It has been reported that smuggling one truckload of cigarettes from a low-tax US state to a high-tax state can lead to a profit of up to $2 million.
In the UK it has been reported that "27% of cigarettes and 68% of roll your own tobacco [is] purchased on the black market


A few world stats:
http://www.havocscope.com/alcohol-smuggling/


I could obviously google more ........but what the hell, you aren't reading this info any way.
IMO, you just make up stuff to suit your argument.
 
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Stone

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Imagine putting all the tax $$$ we now waste on a failed prohibition system and give it to the medical system that most intelligent reports say is better equipped to deal with addiction than the police.

A smart move to any intelligent person.

Regards
DL


Have you even bothered to read how the Portuguese addressed their drug problems with decriminalization?

It's reduced the cases of drug abuse by about 50% in the last decade while also reducing general crime.......it's just not logical to disrupt a society by turning it into a culture of acceptable drug abuse and drug addiction.
 

Stone

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Wrong according to experts.

You will note if you have read any government reports, that they usually extend the conversation to multi-drug use, which is quite common, and point to the fact that part of their legalization program must include all drugs if the pusher problem is to go away. That problem is key if we are to do what we want and cut access to our children.

Regards
DL


How come you never post linkage to such wild and crazy claims? :D....:p
 

Stone

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I do not deny that decriminalization will benefit us.

I just also recognize that full legalization is required and would be our admission that prohibition has never worked and that that whole system of social manipulation and control should be scrapped as we only hurt ourselves with trying to implement prohibitions that do not have public support. Prohibition is a government tool to put control of the black market in their hidden hands.

Who are the greatest drug pushers if not governments?

Regards
DL

I do not deny that decriminalization will benefit us.
Yes....you have.


I just also recognize that full legalization is required and would be our admission that prohibition has never worked and that that whole system of social manipulation and control should be scrapped as we only hurt ourselves with trying to implement prohibitions that do not have public support.

What you recognize and what reality happens to be, are obviously two different concepts :D
Decriminalization is not prohibition nor is it legalization. It literally takes the use of the product to a misdemeanor as a means to discourage use. But in Portugal, it does not legalize the sale of the product in question.
Prohibition in the US was a failure of society to protect itself. Laws were too draconian and the concept of zero tolerance not practical.

BTW.....Prohibition was not repealed because of Constitutionality.
Control was grated to the States.

Prohibition in US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition
Decriminalization of marijuana in Portugal: http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

GIA.......read and learn.


Prohibition is a government tool to put control of the black market in their hidden hands.
If you're going to make claims like that.......prove it



Who are the greatest drug pushers if not governments?
Vociferous rhetoric :D
 

Stone

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Wrong according to experts.

You will note if you have read any government reports, that they usually extend the conversation to multi-drug use, which is quite common, and point to the fact that part of their legalization program must include all drugs if the pusher problem is to go away. That problem is key if we are to do what we want and cut access to our children.

Regards
DL


This is a perfect example of your incredibly flawed logic that I've been commenting on........legalizing the abuse ....and in your example, legal access to multiple addictive/harmful drugs will not cut or in anyway diminish children's access to these drugs.

and point to the fact that part of their legalization program must include all drugs if the pusher problem is to go away
Ah hah! :D
When you post comments like that, you aren't fooling anyone.
That's admitting your arguments are for the creation of a culture of legalized drug abuse and addiction.


What really pisses me off is that you propose to expose innocent children to these vices as a argument to construct your drug society......:thumbdown
 

Greatest I am

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Thanks for thinking that little old me had the power to create what we have here and now.

You worry about children while promoting a system that keeps pushers at them while speaking against a system that has proven to be better than prohibition.

Regards
DL
 
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