Good Without Gods

[HK]

Yes, you can go through life not killing or harming anyone, and perhaps give a buck here and there, and perhaps that's doing good, but that's not actually trying to make a difference IMO.

No, what I find funny was even when I was self centered son of a bitch, I did "good deeds" just as you listed. For the most part, they are quick and easy and don't require a lot of time, not that there is anything wrong with that.

Charity walks are nice, but they are quick and easy.

People for the most part take the easy way from my own personal experiences.

Joe, I can't help but notice you seem to be saying that good deeds aren't really worth doing unless you're giving up significant amounts of time and money to help others.

As nice as it would be for everyone to be able to take off to a third world country and feed orphans for three months or whatever, most of us have our own lives that we have to focus on. The fact that people do charity walks or sponsored events, or give what little they can, shouldn't be demeaned as 'quick and easy'. Surely doing a little is better than doing nothing at all?

Some of us have enough to worry about with paying our own bills and putting food on the table, never mind helping others. I give to charity when I can, but I can't afford a monthly contribution because I'm flat broke. I think it's unfair to suggest that people aren't really doing anything worthwhile if it's not to a certain scale.

 

[Joe the meek]

Joe, I can't help but notice you seem to be saying that good deeds aren't really worth doing unless you're giving up significant amounts of time and money to help others.

As nice as it would be for everyone to be able to take off to a third world country and feed orphans for three months or whatever, most of us have our own lives that we have to focus on. The fact that people do charity walks or sponsored events, or give what little they can, shouldn't be demeaned as 'quick and easy'. Surely doing a little is better than doing nothing at all?

Some of us have enough to worry about with paying our own bills and putting food on the table, never mind helping others. I give to charity when I can, but I can't afford a monthly contribution because I'm flat broke. I think it's unfair to suggest that people aren't really doing anything worthwhile if it's not to a certain scale.

Just that I have noticed that those who do take significant amounts of time usually do so due to some kind of faith.

Heck, I use to donate my time at the literacy council during college to pick up chicks. Yeah, don't tell me guys don't go to church to pick up babes LOL

For what it's worth, IMO just because you do "good deeds" doesn't automatically make you a good person, it also doesn't guaranty your way into heaven if you're a Christian

Here is a question for you though and if I offend you, I sincerely apologize. Can't you afford one hour a week going to a nursing home to give comfort to those who have no loved ones? I've found that usually small amounts of time can be made, but it's usually a pain in the ass, particularly if you work or have a family. I can't help but wonder if all those who could actually give ONE hour a week would, and what kind of difference that would make. I figure in my county of 30k people, perhaps 5k people could donate an hour of their time. That's 5,000 hours a week of volunteer time. Think about what kind of difference might be made.

The world is capable of great good or great bad with or without God. I will however give it better chances with faith LOL

Yeah, I know, pipe dream, and as I tell guys I work with, "it's a dog eat dog world out there, and I'm wearing milk bone underware"

 

[HK]

I'm not saying doing small good deeds automatically makes anyone, of faith or not, a good person. But it seems a little mean to say that if someone isn't donating time or money in a way that YOU personally think is worthwhile then it's not really something a person should feel good for doing.

Thousands, maybe even millions of people take part in the charity walks you said were 'quick and easy'. Perhaps this isn't what you meant to insinuate, but it's coming across as though you think unless people are doing charity work to your specifications, it's not really a good deed at all.

All I'm saying is, it's unrealistic to expect everyone to give the same amount of their time and money, but there are those who do a little - surely doing a little is better than saying 'hey, the difference I'm making won't be missed'. If everyone who does do a little thought that, I think a lot of charities would notice.

 

[Niamh]

Dude, most people will give you money for a "charity event" just to get you out of their hair:24:

Giving money in most cases is nothing more than a "quick feel good" fix for some.

I'm talking about actually trying to make a difference.

What have YOU done yourself other than some charity walk to help those less fortunate than yourself?

Ever work in a soup kitchen or homeless shelter? Ever donate time at a nursing home to help those who feel lonely? Ever volunteer more than 40 hours a year of YOUR OWN TIME to an organization? Ever work with the illiterate to help them read and write? Tell me what YOU have done.

I know, who has the time?

No, I'm not looking to see who can do more, but to get an idea of what kind of time people put in to help others that may not believe in any kind of higher power.

I used to volunteer at a local home for severely mentally handicapped people when I was younger and I am not and never have been religious.

 

[Joe the meek]

I'm not saying doing small good deeds automatically makes anyone, of faith or not, a good person. But it seems a little mean to say that if someone isn't donating time or money in a way that YOU personally think is worthwhile then it's not really something a person should feel good for doing.

Thousands, maybe even millions of people take part in the charity walks you said were 'quick and easy'. Perhaps this isn't what you meant to insinuate, but it's coming across as though you think unless people are doing charity work to your specifications, it's not really a good deed at all.

All I'm saying is, it's unrealistic to expect everyone to give the same amount of their time and money, but there are those who do a little - surely doing a little is better than saying 'hey, the difference I'm making won't be missed'. If everyone who does do a little thought that, I think a lot of charities would notice.

I agree with you.

My only point is that most of the people I do know who go out of their way and make the time are those who have some kind of faith, be it the God of Abraham or a higher power.

There's nothing wrong with a charity walk, but anytime I give to one, I just tell the person they don't need to walk I can't help but think that perhaps the organization could utilize the time better by having the people do something other than walk.

 

[Joe the meek]

I used to volunteer at a local home for severely mentally handicapped people when I was younger and I am not and never have been religious.

And may I ask why did you do it (don't tell me it was a part of your court order)? Why did you stop? Are you doing something else with your time?

I ask these questions because I'm sincerely curious.

 

[Niamh]

I agree with you.

My only point is that most of the people I do know who go out of their way and make the time are those who have some kind of faith, be it the God of Abraham or a higher power.

There's nothing wrong with a charity walk, but anytime I give to one, I just tell the person they don't need to walk I can't help but think that perhaps the organization could utilize the time better by having the people do something other than walk.

also, a friend of mine went to Africa for a year, helping out there and another girl who went to Belarus to work in an orphanage. Neither of them were religious.

 

[Niamh]

And may I ask why did you do it? Why did you stop? Are you doing something else with your time?

I ask these questions because I'm sincerely curious.

I did it because I wanted to help out in some way, I stopped because I was moving abroad for a while and I don't do it now because I have a full time job and kids to look after (I was single and childless at the time)

 

[Peter Parka]

I don't want you to talk about your "good deeds", but I'd like to know what you have done.

Erm ok then, please get back to me when you decide which part of this contradiction you want to hear.:wtf:

 

[Joe the meek]

Erm ok then, please get back to me when you decide which part of this contradiction you want to hear.:wtf:

There is a difference between stating what you currently are doing, and talking about it.

I'll explain the differences to you tomorrow when I get home.

 

[Panacea]

No, what I find funny was even when I was self centered son of a bitch, I did "good deeds" just as you listed. For the most part, they are quick and easy and don't require a lot of time, not that there is anything wrong with that. :

That was the most passive aggressive fucking statement I've ever read. :24:

 

[Joe the meek]

That was the most passive aggressive fucking statement I've ever read. :24:

You're welcome. Hopefully you get my point.

Along the same lines as a mob boss doing good by giving money to charity.

 

[Niamh]

You're welcome. Hopefully you get my point.

Along the same lines as a mob boss doing good by giving money to charity.

I don't see where you're going with that statement? Are you saying that people who only give money to charity and not their time aren't really doing any good?

I think it's fair to say that some religious people help the poor and needy out of the goodness of their hearts as do some non-religious people.

 

[Panacea]

You're welcome. Hopefully you get my point.

Along the same lines as a mob boss doing good by giving money to charity.

:fing27

 

[CityGirl]

I don't see where you're going with that statement? Are you saying that people who only give money to charity and not their time aren't really doing any good?

I think it's fair to say that some religious people help the poor and needy out of the goodness of their hearts as do some non-religious people.

I think it all boils down to the goodness of their hearts and not their religion. If religion were the driving force, every religious person would be volunteering an hour a week to some worthwhile cause. I don't think we can factually say that more christians/religious persons volunteer time for altruistic purposes than non christians. If it appears that way to some, it may be more due to demographics and their social settings than it has to do with fact. There are numerous organizations that are not religiously affiliated who provide charitable services. Their volunteers are a potluck of believers and non believers. Even atheist organizations have community service programs i.e Rational Responders. I have a good heart but at this time, I'm not compelled to donate my time outside of my home and my family. I guess you can say, "I gave at the office". I am in a profession that allows me to answer my call to serve others and earn a living at it.

I am mindful of others when I am out and about. I establish eye contact with strangers, smile and say "hello". You never know when someone is thinking the worst of humankind because of some slight or mistreatment and then a smile from a stranger can have the power to restore their faith that all humanity is not unkind. I've picked up the tab at the checkout for a person who seemed less well off than I. A little boy picked up an item that fell from my grocery cart and handed it to me without being prompted by an adult to do so. I gave him 4 quarters and told him thank you. I also told him that even though not every good thing he does will result in a reward, every now and then it happens so keep up the good work. (I should have asked him if he went to Sunday School ...) There are opportunities all around us to make a difference in someones life and those opportunities don't necessitate an hours worth of time. Those opportunities, however, do necessitate being aware of those around us. Everyone deserves a smile.

 

[Niamh]

I think it all boils down to the goodness of their hearts and not their religion. If religion were the driving force, every religious person would be volunteering an hour a week to some worthwhile cause. I don't think we can factually say that more christians/religious persons volunteer time for altruistic purposes than non christians. If it appears that way to some, it may be more due to demographics and their social settings than it has to do with fact. There are numerous organizations that are not religiously affiliated who provide charitable services. Their volunteers are a potluck of believers and non believers. Even atheist organizations have community service programs i.e Rational Responders. I have a good heart but at this time, I'm not compelled to donate my time outside of my home and my family. I guess you can say, "I gave at the office". I am in a profession that allows me to answer my call to serve others and earn a living at it.

I am mindful of others when I am out and about. I establish eye contact with strangers, smile and say "hello". You never know when someone is thinking the worst of humankind because of some slight or mistreatment and then a smile from a stranger can have the power to restore their faith that all humanity is not unkind. I've picked up the tab at the checkout for a person who seemed less well off than I. A little boy picked up an item that fell from my grocery cart and handed it to me without being prompted by an adult to do so. I gave him 4 quarters and told him thank you. I also told him that even though not every good thing he does will result in a reward, every now and then it happens so keep up the good work. (I should have asked him if he went to Sunday School ...) There are opportunities all around us to make a difference in someones life and those opportunities don't necessitate an hours worth of time. Those opportunities, however, do necessitate being aware of those around us. Everyone deserves a smile.

I think you're absolutely spot on.

 

[Panacea]

I think it all boils down to the goodness of their hearts and not their religion. If religion were the driving force, every religious person would be volunteering an hour a week to some worthwhile cause. I don't think we can factually say that more christians/religious persons volunteer time for altruistic purposes than non christians. If it appears that way to some, it may be more due to demographics and their social settings than it has to do with fact. There are numerous organizations that are not religiously affiliated who provide charitable services. Their volunteers are a potluck of believers and non believers. Even atheist organizations have community service programs i.e Rational Responders. I have a good heart but at this time, I'm not compelled to donate my time outside of my home and my family. I guess you can say, "I gave at the office". I am in a profession that allows me to answer my call to serve others and earn a living at it.

I am mindful of others when I am out and about. I establish eye contact with strangers, smile and say "hello". You never know when someone is thinking the worst of humankind because of some slight or mistreatment and then a smile from a stranger can have the power to restore their faith that all humanity is not unkind. I've picked up the tab at the checkout for a person who seemed less well off than I. A little boy picked up an item that fell from my grocery cart and handed it to me without being prompted by an adult to do so. I gave him 4 quarters and told him thank you. I also told him that even though not every good thing he does will result in a reward, every now and then it happens so keep up the good work. (I should have asked him if he went to Sunday School ...) There are opportunities all around us to make a difference in someones life and those opportunities don't necessitate an hours worth of time. Those opportunities, however, do necessitate being aware of those around us. Everyone deserves a smile.

Well said, CG, and how nice of you to take time away from your criminal organization to reward a little boy with dirty money!

Joking aside, I agree. The best kind of charitable person is one with an organic desire to see good in the world, and that desire transcends religious ideology of all kinds.

 

[Niamh]

well said, cg, and how nice of you to take time away from your criminal organization to reward a little boy with dirty money!

joking aside, i agree. The best kind of charitable person is one with an organic desire to see good in the world, and that desire transcends religious ideology of all kinds.

:24::24:

 

[Diggin Deep]

CG...well said! :thumbup

 

[Pet Sounds]

The whole video is trite garbage and I' ll explain why. It is another effot by atheists to turn science into a religion with fallacies they might have heard of if they had actually dug deeper into philosophy or science than Youtube videos.

The entire argument is based on the premise that you can get an"ought" from an "is". What is, tells us what ought to be. But science only deals with what is, and what ought to be is totally nonsensical.

For example, the universe is 14 billion years old. That's what its age is. But what age ought it be? A religious person might say it ought to be 6,000 years old, even though it isn't 6,000 years old. There is no way to turn that ought into an is. The universe is what it is, regardless of what we want it to be.

Don't mix it with oughts. It is exactly what religious people do. "even if that isn't how it is, that is how it should be". Don;t equate the is and the ought. The it should always take precedent over the ought. Otherwise, people simply not wanting evolution to be true, would hold as much weight as it actually being true. Evolution may be true, but it ought not be. It is totally nonsensical to say, scientifically, that something should be another way. Science deals with how nature is, not how it ought to be. If I let go of my phone it will hit the ground. That's what is. But what ought? What should my phone do instead? Transform in a brunette hooker? Cure cancer? What should your phone do when you drop it? Answer that question.