for all you atheists out there...

[Peter Parka]

You too! I take it this means you've given up? Well agreeing to disagree is the best way to go sometimes.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

I wouldn't say he's given up persay, just that he knows the difference between debating and pushing. I've never seen Scott push anything on anyone and he doesn't want to do that.

 

[Magic P]

I guess the matter will never settle. People keep believing in what they want till it's not working out for them. There are more narrow-minded ppl around btw.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

I believed in God once, for a long time. Church, camp, youth - I did it all. But it didn't do much for me and nothing ever works out for me. I have always had bad luck and believing did nothing for me.

 

[OUZBnd]

Oh and by the way, any of you religious types, if you can prove that what most of what I've said is wrong, then maybe you might have a chance of converting me! I thank you!

If any of you non-religious types can prove that God doesn't exist then maybe you will have a chance of converting religious types .

 

[TheOriginalJames]

I'm not one to really try to convert people away from God. I mean, that'd put me in their shoes and I'd be just like them then. I'm happy for people no matter what they decide to believe in.

 

[Boomer]

Yup, whatever floats yer boat or finds yer lost remote.

 

[Charmer]

Oh and by the way, any of you religious types, if you can prove that what most of what I've said is wrong, then maybe you might have a chance of converting me! I thank you!

Great work, Peter. You just proved what I always say about the picking and choosing of what to believe from the Bible and from which version of the Bible to take your beliefs from that people do to justify their actions.

I'm just saying........

 

[Charmer]

If any of you non-religious types can prove that God doesn't exist then maybe you will have a chance of converting religious types .

I personally think it's up to people who say God physically exists to prove it rather than people who say God doesn't exist or is just a feeling inside people to prove that. Because, if something isn't there, it's not there. If God physically exists, than "he/she/it" should be easy enough to produce to everyone.

 

[Charmer]

I'm not one to really try to convert people away from God. I mean, that'd put me in their shoes and I'd be just like them then. I'm happy for people no matter what they decide to believe in.

...but I am with James on what he said. I do not begrudge those who believe, as long as they do not get in my face and preach to me. I will debate people in an intelligent, polite manner as long as it is a two-sided conversation, not just one person preaching and rolling their eyes because I ask for physical proof of God existance and to explain all the science fiction in the Bible; and then saying, "He does exist. He just exists. He's all around. The Bible is the word of God." That does not prove anything.

 

[Peter Parka]

If any of you non-religious types can prove that God doesn't exist then maybe you will have a chance of converting religious types .

I'm not interested in converting anyone, someone asked me why I don't believe and I gave them the reasons why, like I've said before, if going to church works for you then go for it.

 

[IntruderLS1]

If God physically exists, than "he/she/it" should be easy enough to produce to everyone.

Do you believe in black holes?

 

[Charmer]

Do you believe in black holes?

Oooohhh, darn the darn, this comment is sooooo ripe for a response that would be true of experiences I've had, but......then it would have to be in the Underground section!!

 

[IntruderLS1]

lol Okay, but I've made my point.

 

[GameCrazed]

Of course it's nice to believe there's a vacation resort in the sky.

Unfortunately, I've never been satisfied with simple answers.

 

[IntruderLS1]

This good enough for you?

God good to all, or just a few?
PSA 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.
JER 13:14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

If you read PSA 145:9 completely, it says the Lord is slow to anger. Not He never gets angry. But more to the point even than that, is that sin and departure from God's will brings consequences. JER 13 is a chapter about the Lord giving a warning to His people. Turn from your evil ways, or this is coming.... They had been drifting for years away from the truth, so a warning was sent (which was also ignored.) If you continue to read the book of Jeremiah, it provides a history of the collaps of Jerusalem militarily. Like is Psalms, this story shows us that we are still in controll of which road we will travel. The Lord has provided a map and helpful hints along the way, but if we choose to travel the road to destruction, we have that ability.

War or Peace?
EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

We talked about this a little in our previous discussion. All great leaders are required to fill more than one hat. There is no dublicity in being a man of peace who will stand and fight when required to protect his family. I personally consider myself a peaceful person, and feel compelled to get along with my fellow man. But I've also served in the military and am willing and able to defend our great nation and my family against those who would do them harm. The Exodus quote is taken after God saved the Isrealites from the attacking Egyptian army. The Romans verse you quoted is the end of a greating to a friendly church. Are you a man of peace? Would you fight to defend your family? Is there a disconnect there?

Who is the father of Joseph?
MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

I'm just going to copy what my index notes say here in my Bible. "Some say Matthew gave Joseph's line, while Luke gave Mary's. Others think the difference was between a royal line (that of Joseph) and a physical line (that of Mary). Still others see the variation as the result of at least two levirate marriages (where a man without sones was included in the list because his widow had children in his name by his brother). Probably a combination of factors is at work. The unique thing about Luke's list is that it goes back to Adam, showing that Jesus came for all humanity."

Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it:
MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

I don't really see why this was included on this list. This is three verses from three different authors, that all say exactly the same thing. ???

Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

At the end of the statement Jesus started in your first quote, He said: "Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father.” John 10:38. This tells us that Jesus and the Father are a single family unit. The idea of the Trinity can be confusing, and quite frankly takes some time to figure out, which is why I try to put it in worldly form when I explain it to people. Remember to government part of my earlier post? This is the same thing. You have the Queen, the PM, and parlament, yet you have a single government. This is how I view the relationship.

Which first--beasts or man?
GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

My Bible show a very similar list as the items you quoted, with one very important difference. In 2:19, the last verse on your list, my Bible reads "Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground...." Had being past tense.
I'm looking in another translation, and the word "had" is not in there. The English / Hebrew / Greek translations have enough play in them that can sometimes lead to confusion. If you like, we can go into the exact Hebrew syntax and find out exactly how it is phrased.

The number of beasts in the ark
GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.

When you read it, it makes sense. This is exactly what I was talking about. I am going to copy past vs 2-10:
Take with you seven pairs—male and female—of each animal I have approved for eating and for sacrifice,[a] and take one pair of each of the others. 3 Also take seven pairs of every kind of bird. There must be a male and a female in each pair to ensure that all life will survive on the earth after the flood. 4 Seven days from now I will make the rains pour down on the earth. And it will rain for forty days and forty nights, until I have wiped from the earth all the living things I have created.”

5 So Noah did everything as the Lord commanded him. 6 Noah was 600 years old when the flood covered the earth. 7 He went on board the boat to escape the flood—he and his wife and his sons and their wives. 8 With them were all the various kinds of animals—those approved for eating and for sacrifice and those that were not—along with all the birds and the small animals that scurry along the ground. 9 They entered the boat in pairs, male and female, just as God had commanded Noah. 10 After seven days, the waters of the flood came and covered the earth.

Some minor points of interest concerning this flood: Every culture, including Native Americans have a great flood story that has been passed down through word of mouth. Also, a great flood would explain many of the arguments evolutionsists us against creationists.

 

[IntruderLS1]

How many stalls and horsemen?
KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

Sorry friend, this is translation again. Notes from my index from 1 Kings 4:26 item flagged the word 'forty' in English: "Some Septuagint manuscripts (see also 2 Chron. 9:25); Hebrew forty.

Is it folly to be wise or not?
PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
1 Cor.1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and wil bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."

Proverbs: Wisdom is of major importance to seek. Life will be easier, and more successful if you heed the wisdom of your parents, and make good choices. Ecclesiates: Here the king is speaking of "ignorance is bliss." He is commenting on how the unwise can live life with joy and blindness to the bitter end, but the wise man sees that he cannot escape the inevitable. He is speaking of the importance of wisdom, but also as a reminder that it must be used in life, and not placed on a mantle for occasional viewing. 1st Corinthians: This verse is speaking of scholors of the time were would argue against the logic of what Christ did for mankind. It is very similar to the dialog with modern intellectuals. The verse listed here is talking about how God chooses his methods based on His will and knowledge, and we may not understand the why, but that doesn't negate the truth, nor does the argument against bring anybody into the fold.
Do you see now what we were talking about when we kept saying context? It is critical. Do you see any lack of logic in these verses when you see them like this?

Human vs. ghostly impregnation
ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

This one is blatent. The Act's verse is speaking of King David, an ancestor of Jesus's earthy father. It had been prophesyed that the Messiah would come from the line of David, and that is all that is being stated here. In this case, the "fruit of his loins" is generations removed. We are all fruit of our great great great great great grandparents. I can copy / past this chapter if you like, but it'd be easier if you just went and read it for yourself. Let me know if you want me to link it or paste it.

The sins of the father
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Isaiah is speaking poetically here about the destruction of the northen kingdom. The Assyrians had over run them and 'carried them away' into slavery. He is speaking of the suffering of children because of the sins of the father, NOT the suffering of the children because God is punishing them (as is made clear in the second verse you posted)
When we destroy our lives, spirituality aside even, our children suffer. There is a reason statistics show us that criminal and abusive families breed criminals and abusive individuals. If you raise your child around drugs, thugs, and jail time, what kind of life do you think they'll live? Will they be happy and successful?
When that child grows up, and commits his or her own infractions, they will be punished according to what they have done. They won't go to jail because of a crime their parents commited.
This seems more like common sense than discrepancy.

The bat is not a bird
LEV 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
LEV 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
LEV 11:15 Every raven after his kind;
LEV 11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
LEV 11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
LEV 11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
LEV 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
DEU 14:12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
DEU 14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
DEU 14:14 And every raven after his kind,
DEU 14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
DEU 14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
DEU 14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
DEU 14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

LOL The bat is not a bird by our definitions. But how should they have discribed it to the Israelites back in the day? They didn't have the same category system we have today. It had wings, and flew. It must have been a bird. Would you have prefered they first created the 19th century breakdown of critters before they told them to not eat the things? Of all the above arguments, this one is by far the silliest. ha-ha.

 

[IntruderLS1]

Okay Peter. This took me a few hours of digging through my Bible, but I'm very happy to say that there honestly was a good answer for everything in your post. I've tried to shed some light on them as briefly as I could.

I still had to break it down into two seperate posts though. I never knew there was a character limit. LOL (Which is surprising with how long winded I can be!!)

It's WAY past my bedtime now, so I can't finish the other sections you posted (or even proof read this one. Sorry for any spelling / typo's), but hopefully you'll see that the entire first section was gone through with ease, and that'll be enough.

Let me know what you think man.

 

[Peter Parka]

Well thanks for those intelligent, well thought out answers. To be honest the biggest problem I have is the difference between what the Bible thinks is evil and what I believe is. I'm of the opinion that if what you do dosen't hurt innocent people then there is no harm in it but the Bible disagrees with that given what it says about homosexuality ect. Anyway, thanks for the response and I guess we can both just be happy believing different things, what a boring world it would be if everyone thought the same.

 

[IntruderLS1]

Okay, well it was a shot in the dark, but well worth the effort. I'm willing to let the conversation end here if that's what you want, but there is one more thing you said that I would like to clear up.

To be honest the biggest problem I have is the difference between what the Bible thinks is evil and what I believe is. I'm of the opinion that if what you do dosen't hurt innocent people then there is no harm in it but the Bible disagrees with that given what it says about homosexuality ect.

It's a common missconception that even Christians fall into a lot of times. The difference between the Old and New Testaments (which is just a fancy way of saying before or after Jesus came). The Old Testament contained the "rules" that people so often associate with Christianity, but when Jesus came, he completed what was called the law, and taught only two. They were "Love God," and "Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you." This to me falls into what you're saying about not hurting others.

He teaches that all men sin, so nobody has the right to be self righteous and judge others. (Another problem Christians on the news seem to have) He even warns us that if we do judge others, we ourselves will be judged by the same standard. Homosexuality specifically is not preached against because it's "evil." It's preached against because in the Bible, your body is the temple (not these massive churches people build), and homosexuality destroys that temple. A fact which science has confirmed for us.

I'm sorry so many imature believers have left such a bad impression. If you want some advice for dealing with them though, reminding them of what I just told you should shut them down pretty quick. LOL If they had half a brain, they'll just stop talking, and walk away. :jk