for all you atheists out there...

[icecuban]

My question doesn't require you to explain your transformation at all. I just asked if you think god asking millions to blindly bow before him and worship him is an act of humility. If he was humble, he would have no problem saying "You were my creation. Even though I don't agree with the path you've followed, I can respect it and allow you into heaven." But that's not what he says, is it?

i dont think he actually asks to be bowed before. he actually says not to speak his name at all, and just live the peacful life. I feel he does not speak because its like asking for a miracle before your eyes in order to believe in something. when all u need is the beauty around u, that none of us asked for, but recieved anyways, to see the true miracle at work.
as for your last quote though, i think he did say that, just now, through you! that thought is beautiful, and shouldnt offend anyone. saying that, i really think we just had god speak in this forum, lol (no joke though)

 

[Tegan]

I've always been of the mind that heaven and hell are a metaphor that was bastardized by early priests and the early church to keep people in line. Lets face it, the goal of the early Jewish priests and the early Christian church had for more to do with keeping people inline than it did with saving anyones soul. To that end, I've always thought heaven and hell represented something less tangible than eternal paradise and a lake of fire. What of heaven is just the right to pass on peacefully, and hell means you have to be reborn to live another life on earth? I'm not saying that's it, but I've always had a very had time believing in the Biblical concepts of heaven and hell.

That said, it gives me a hard time reconciling my personal faith. If I believe in God, and I believe his Son was sent to die for my sin's, aren't I sort of required to believe in Biblical concept of Heaven and Hell? It's a paradox I've often struggled with. My biggest issue is that the logical side of my brain simply won't let me believe the Bible as literally as some believers. Not when I know that it was written by men, men with an agenda. Not when I know it was mistranslated, misinterpreted and edited for the purposes of a church to control it's members. How do I know that what I am reading is how God meant the message to be conveyed? The simple answer is, I don't. That doesn't diminish my faith that God very much exists and that he cares deeply about his creations. It just leads me to wonder: What if God isn't as vengeful as the clergy would have you believe? It's always been difficult for me to reconcile the thought of a vengeful God with a that of a loving God. Maybe they weren't meant to be reconciled, maybe God's message was perverted over the years. In fact, I doubt it's just a maybe, I am almost sure of it. Go play the telephone game some time and tell me what you get. Even with no ill will, the message changes each time its passed along.

So there you have it. That's my extremely odd take on the whole situation.

 

[dt3]

i dont think he actually asks to be bowed before. he actually says not to speak his name at all, and just live the peacful life. I feel he does not speak because its like asking for a miracle before your eyes in order to believe in something. when all u need is the beauty around u, that none of us asked for, but recieved anyways, to see the true miracle at work.
as for your last quote though, i think he did say that, just now, through you! that thought is beautiful, and shouldnt offend anyone. saying that, i really think we just had god speak in this forum, lol (no joke though)

I thought he kicked us OUT of the true beauty (Eden) he provided?

 

[BreakfastSurreal]

The old testament God was vengeful...if that is even a good word...but the new testament God was a loving and forgiving God...it's because all our sins were paid for by Jesus, so God has no reason to "punish" his people and require burnt offerings and living sacrifices anymore from them. I believe firmly in the word of the bible, and that's because I just do...I have faith...If these men were holy enough to be God's vessels and write HIS book, then I believe that they would only write what God was to have them to write...God wouldn't let his word be twisted...it is HIS message to the future. That's how I feel about it.

 

[dt3]

The old testament God was vengeful...if that is even a good word...but the new testament God was a loving and forgiving God...it's because all our sins were paid for by Jesus, so God has no reason to "punish" his people and require burnt offerings and living sacrifices anymore from them. I believe firmly in the word of the bible, and that's because I just do...I have faith...If these men were holy enough to be God's vessels and write HIS book, then I believe that they would only write what God was to have them to write...God wouldn't let his word be twisted...it is HIS message to the future. That's how I feel about it.

Then why does he send people to hell? If he created all of us and gave us free will, how can he hold how we exercise our free will against us? That doesn't seem very loving.

 

[icecuban]

I thought he kicked us OUT of the true beauty (Eden) he provided?

i think he may have kicked us out mentaly. looking around for it when its right here in front of us. i think our eyes were taken to fully see its beauty. like looking for miracles when theres plenty right in front of our nose, if we only had the eyes to see.

 

[icecuban]

Then why does he send people to hell? If he created all of us and gave us free will, how can he hold how we exercise our free will against us? That doesn't seem very loving.

id love to answer this, and you deserve a good answer, please refer to the hell thread, i think u'd agree with that more then anything else u may hear.
in short, i agree, never would that happen

 

[Reaver]

If these men were holy enough to be God's vessels and write HIS book, then I believe that they would only write what God was to have them to write...God wouldn't let his word be twisted...it is HIS message to the future. That's how I feel about it.

So by this logic, you should believe in all religions that worship God, since according to those religions, God handed down their specific book.

Like, do you agree with all the stuff in the book of Mormon? The Koran?

just food for thought...

 

[GraceAbounds]

My question doesn't require you to explain your transformation at all. I just asked if you think god asking millions to blindly bow before him and worship him is an act of humility. If he was humble, he would have no problem saying "You were my creation. Even though I don't agree with the path you've followed, I can respect it and allow you into heaven." But that's not what he says, is it?

That would be like me telling my child that I respect a path they have chosen when I don't because I know the path they have chosen will lead them to pain and suffering. Therefore it would be a lie for me to say I respect the path they have chosen. God is not going to respect a path that he knows will lead to our own demise.

 

[Tim]

That would be like me telling my child that I respect a path they have chosen when I don't because I know the path they have chosen will lead them to pain and suffering. Therefore it would be a lie for me to say I respect the path they have chosen. God is not going to respect a path that he knows will lead to our own demise.

But he has created this path and paved it with gold while he was at it. If only 1 of 32,422 will make it onto the right path as you video says, then he has failed us.

A God that can do anything, creates us, gives an ancient civilization his "son" to die for them, asks them to hand down this information to future civilization, punishes people who do not follow or understand with eternal damnation and suffering beyond comprehension. If anyone can believe this, then they truly have no comprehension of what eternity is...

Even if you were to torture someone for every second of every day, and I'm talking about burning, cutting, beating, mutilation, demoralizing, every single sick and twisted thing you can imagine, since the day of their birth to their death, you still would not even come close to what God has in store for you for not believing in something for which there is no proof... or even signs of...
That is a hateful God

 

[GraceAbounds]

No He has not failed us. We have failed ourselves.

 

[dt3]

That would be like me telling my child that I respect a path they have chosen when I don't because I know the path they have chosen will lead them to pain and suffering. Therefore it would be a lie for me to say I respect the path they have chosen. God is not going to respect a path that he knows will lead to our own demise.

But he's the one who made it lead to pain and suffering. Would you want your child to rot in hell for eternity? If your child totally disowned you and never spoke to you again, would you wish on him what god wishes on us?

 

[All Else Failed]

The old testament God was vengeful...if that is even a good word...but the new testament God was a loving and forgiving God...it's because all our sins were paid for by Jesus, so God has no reason to "punish" his people and require burnt offerings and living sacrifices anymore from them. I believe firmly in the word of the bible, and that's because I just do...I have faith...If these men were holy enough to be God's vessels and write HIS book, then I believe that they would only write what God was to have them to write...God wouldn't let his word be twisted...it is HIS message to the future. That's how I feel about it.

The old and new testament god is the same god. Do you think that jesus just popped in one day, saved us all, and then the OT god was like "Oops sorry dudes, I didn't mean to committed mass murder on humanity when I supposedly flooded the entire planet, we're cool now!"

If you think that the word of god is 100% correct and true, why are you not stoning harlots? I mean, he wouldn't let his word get twisted, not even by Jesus.

 

[All Else Failed]

That would be like me telling my child that I respect a path they have chosen when I don't because I know the path they have chosen will lead them to pain and suffering. Therefore it would be a lie for me to say I respect the path they have chosen. God is not going to respect a path that he knows will lead to our own demise.

How am I being an atheist make me suffer in life? I'm perfectly happy.


So then, god is a control freak who wants us to bow to him only and doesn't respect the way people want to live, ok.

 

[icecuban]

How am I being an atheist make me suffer in life? I'm perfectly happy.


So then, god is a control freak who wants us to bow to him only and doesn't respect the way people want to live, ok.

if you are perfectly happy, then that is good, if you stive to make others perfectly happy, that is great! if this is what you do, and you do it all, awake and asleep, with a sound heart and mind, then who cares if u call out god or not, i dont, and i find myself to be one of the "only" christians. if there is no god, then good, this is good, if there is one, then he is happy with u, its all good either way. personally, when it comes to atheism, does that mean you dont believe in god? or does it mean you dont have proof either way, so its still up for discusion? forgive me for being nieve, there are so many schools of thought these days, and im too lazy right now to google or wiki anything

 

[Reaver]

atheism is belief that there is NO God. Atheists believe this to be the truth. Agnostics, on the other hand, believe that there is no proof for either conclusion just yet, so they do not believe solidly in one practice versus the other. They sit on the fence, waiting to see the outcome before they choose.

 

[icecuban]

so they have faith (since there is no proof) that there is no god, am i getting this right?

 

[IntruderLS1]

The old and new testament god is the same god. Do you think that jesus just popped in one day, saved us all, and then the OT god was like "Oops sorry dudes, I didn't mean to committed mass murder on humanity when I supposedly flooded the entire planet, we're cool now!"

If you think that the word of god is 100% correct and true, why are you not stoning harlots? I mean, he wouldn't let his word get twisted, not even by Jesus.

It's not my intention to continue on too much in this discussion, but what you've said up here, I don't understand from somebody who grew up in the church.

This is basic, 1st grade, fundamental Christianity, but you're talking about it like you've never seen it before.

Did you really grow up in a Catholic school system, or are you guys just on some sort of missionary quest to disprove God to as many Christians as you can, and find that a Catholic upbringing gives you an extra level of cover?

 

[IntruderLS1]

But he's the one who made it lead to pain and suffering. Would you want your child to rot in hell for eternity? If your child totally disowned you and never spoke to you again, would you wish on him what god wishes on us?

I understand how you've come under this impression, but it isn't accurate according to the Christian faith (as it is in the Bible, not organized religion). God does not wish harm or suffering on us.

In Christianity, we believe that our souls are eternal creations, and there are only two destinations that we have open to us when we die.

God put down a rebellion, and created a .... "prison" for Lucifer and his fallen angels. The Bible is very clear that we have two choices in front of us, and God asks us to choose life.

In the end (in Christian faith), it is a personal choice. God has given us the information, and asked us to choose the positive, but He will not make us love or listen. To me, this implies a great deal of respect being given from The Creator, to the creation. How many of us would allow free will to that which we have created?

It is a shame Christianity has been so tarnished by man made institutions (church). Not all churches are bad, and I would venture to bet that most (99%) have nothing but the best intentions, but Jesus taught that sectarianism is a destructive force, and we're all seeing that here in the arguments being used against the church.

We Christians dig our own holes with our legalism, and absolutism, and our judgments. Do none of us remember that this is the very thing that Jesus spent his life arguing against with the Pharisees of His day? The Bible has precious few absolutes. Believe in God, accept His forgiveness, and be saved. In everything else, God is teaching us how to live better lives, but when did we start to tell people they were going to hell because they had a nose piercing, or tattoo, or drank, or etc etc etc....??? God works on us all as individuals, in His own perfect time for us. To one He is working on language, to the other, he is working on relationships, to the next, He works on honesty, etc... We cannot judge because another isn't being taught the same lesson at the same time.

Jesus told us to love our neighbors. He lived his life surrounded by sinners and tax collectors (lol that tax collector image hasn't changed much in 2000 years)

(oops, gotta go. I'll try to finish this thought later. Sorry I'm getting caught in the middle. This is going somewhere. LOL)

 

[All Else Failed]

It's not my intention to continue on too much in this discussion, but what you've said up here, I don't understand from somebody who grew up in the church.

This is basic, 1st grade, fundamental Christianity, but you're talking about it like you've never seen it before.

Did you really grow up in a Catholic school system, or are you guys just on some sort of missionary quest to disprove God to as many Christians as you can, and find that a Catholic upbringing gives you an extra level of cover?

No, I really was born and raised a Roman Catholic, went to church every Sunday, went to catholic school from 7th-12th, took Sunday classes, was confirmed (against my will) and all of that.


What is so disagreeable about what I said? The OT god was a murderer, it doesn't matter if the "sinners deserved it".