for all you atheists out there...

[icecuban]

i see no difference between the two, perhaps that is the thing. i still say, disproove it, and i will take it off my list, till then.....

this is all so funny, at your age, i sang the same tune. not saying u will sing mine one day, your path is yours alone and no one else's but i used to hate religion with a passion. thought it did not nothing but wrong, became one of those "great meloncholy poets" who only focused on the masks of people, and not what was underneath them. but it took some "miraculous moments", in very dark places, moments that i can only express but never show with my hands (well, maybe not never), that derailed whatever track i was heading on.

 

[icecuban]

i mean, i had just turned 19 when i started taking a vessel form, and not full of pride, so i take your words just as much an elder as anyone else, because how i feel today was somewhat present then. not necesarily more knowlege (obviously more), just more practice, and having to analize why i did things, always checking myself and seeing if i did things in accordance to my ideals, never trying to be a hypocrate in any way

 

[icecuban]

(but now im getting off the subject, back to the fun!)

 

[memento_mori]

i see no difference between the two, perhaps that is the thing. i still say, disproove it, and i will take it off my list, till then.....

this is all so funny, at your age, i sang the same tune. not saying u will sing mine one day, your path is yours alone and no one else's but i used to hate religion with a passion. thought it did not nothing but wrong, became one of those "great meloncholy poets" who only focused on the masks of people, and not what was underneath them. but it took some "miraculous moments", in very dark places, moments that i can only express but never show with my hands (well, maybe not never), that derailed whatever track i was heading on.

it's not so much that i hate religion with a passion, i just have some questions and concerns that i think need to be addressed if i'm going to sing your tune someday. otherwise, i want a new marching band to follow.

when you see no difference between the two, you mean intelligent design and evolution? one says we have animal ancestry, the other says we came from God. one has fossils, the other says the world's too beautiful.

 

[icecuban]

yeah, because we never come up with better breaking systems for cars. we're still using the same breaks we used for the model Ts.

there are problems with religion that people exploit that would be less exploitable if we didn't blindly believe in them so much.

but i do not believe blindly, i see just fine, i am always puting things into my system and seeing if it can disrupt things, if it can, then i need to reevaluate my whole system, which is just fine with me.
the blind people u speak of do because they are told, do not get me confused with these people. again, its the blind people that exploit, not the idea.

 

[icecuban]

it's not so much that i hate religion with a passion, i just have some questions and concerns that i think need to be addressed if i'm going to sing your tune someday. otherwise, i want a new marching band to follow.

when you see no difference between the two, you mean intelligent design and evolution? one says we have animal ancestry, the other says we came from God. one has fossils, the other says the world's too beautiful.

yes! dont do anything till u are sure, no doubt! i too looked for a new marching band, i almost thought i would have to start my own, but i put that aside when i read more on jesus and buddah, and saw that it was already started, it was just the band playing the tune couldnt read the music, and no one since the cross has, so that makes it hard to see whether or not its a good band to join, since in all actuality, theres harldy anyone (if at all) that is playing the right notes.
and it was love and god that i find to be equal

 

[memento_mori]

but i do not believe blindly, i see just fine, i am always puting things into my system and seeing if it can disrupt things, if it can, then i need to reevaluate my whole system, which is just fine with me.
the blind people u speak of do because they are told, do not get me confused with these people. again, its the blind people that exploit, not the idea.

i'm not saying you are flawed, i'm saying the practice is flawed. and maybe that this practice of religion encourages more flaws than if we looked more towards other sources of morality.

 

[memento_mori]

the beef with intelligent design is that it's taking prettiness over evidence. and we can't always prove on our rational thinking alone, we need a multitude of things. our rational thinking, others rational thinking, usefulness, testing, predictions, evidence- it's kind of like this thread: #1

it's not that it's an unreasonable thought, it's that it has unreasonable certainty. which is more concerning because it's leaving out other parts of the picture.

 

[memento_mori]

ok maybe this thread:

http://www.offtopicz.net/3393-ethical-decisions-what-would-you-do.html

 

[icecuban]

i'm not saying you are flawed, i'm saying the practice is flawed. and maybe that this practice of religion encourages more flaws than if we looked more towards other sources of morality.

i do agree to a point (because i AM flawless....totally jk!) but yes, the "practice" is flawed. one doesnt really need to look towards another source, per se, its just there are no good leaders. no one to be a good example, they all suck. there is a good book called "practice in christianity" written by keirkegaard, he points out all that is wrong in the religion while showing all that is right. so great, the best existenalist turned religious person ever (outside of myself!) in my eyes. i like to think that if i can master the words of jesus, then someone else in the world, someone is mastering with lovely perfection all the other major moral facets, naturalists, buddists, athiests, all of them, all at once, and we can all come together and squash this whole mess
wouldnt that be grand

 

[All Else Failed]

I'm coming in a little late here, but can't all emotions such as love be broken down to certain chemical reactions due to external and some internal stimuli?

 

[All Else Failed]

i do agree to a point (because i AM flawless....totally jk!) but yes, the "practice" is flawed. one doesnt really need to look towards another source, per se, its just there are no good leaders. no one to be a good example, they all suck. there is a good book called "practice in christianity" written by keirkegaard, he points out all that is wrong in the religion while showing all that is right. so great, the best existenalist turned religious person ever (outside of myself!) in my eyes. i like to think that if i can master the words of jesus, then someone else in the world, someone is mastering with lovely perfection all the other major moral facets, naturalists, buddists, athiests, all of them, all at once, and we can all come together and squash this whole mess
wouldnt that be grand

It would, but I think our ideologies are too opposed to each other. It would be like cramming communists and capitalists in the same room. :jk

But I would like it to be that way, when everyone gets along.

 

[Tim]

What I find interesting with the whole debate when it comes to teaching evolution vs creationism (ie. Intellegent design) is that we include evolution because it is science, but we include creationism because the majority of the nation is Christian. So where does that leave the rest of the religions? What about the 1.3 billion people that follow Islam? What about the 1.1 billion secular/athiest/agnostic's? What about the billion who believe in Hinduism? And all the rest of the religions that don't use the Old Testiment as thier guide to the universe.

It also amazes me that EVERYthing that is know about creationism comes from a few short vague chapters in a book (the Bible) that is filled with parables anyway.

 

[All Else Failed]

What I find interesting with the whole debate when it comes to teaching evolution vs creationism (ie. Intellegent design) is that we include evolution because it is science, but we include creationism because the majority of the nation is Christian. So where does that leave the rest of the religions? What about the 1.3 billion people that follow Islam? What about the 1.1 billion secular/athiest/agnostic's? What about the billion who believe in Hinduism? And all the rest of the religions that don't use the Old Testiment as thier guide to the universe.

It also amazes me that EVERYthing that is know about creationism comes from a few short vague chapters in a book (the Bible) that is filled with parables anyway.

Exactly.

Someone could look at something and go, "HEY! That looks like some evidence for the Japanese creation story!" "No no no, that vaguely looks like something credible for the Norse creation story! Hail Odin!" "You both are stupid, it CLEARLY supports Mormonism!" its a good point though, and I think this point alone cancels out much of creationism's credibility. It takes a personal opinion of what is true based on little to no evidence and says it's a science. What about everyone else?

 

[Tim]

I think there is an inherant flaw in everyone coming together... that would mean that everyone must compromise their religous beliefs. Are you willing to throw away some of what you believe to be true because it conflicts with what another religion teaches? How far would you be willing to go?

Every religion is taught as the true one... they all can't be right.

 

[memento_mori]

I think there is an inherant flaw in everyone coming together... that would mean that everyone must compromise their religous beliefs. Are you willing to throw away some of what you believe to be true because it conflicts with what another religion teaches? How far would you be willing to go?

Every religion is taught as the true one... they all can't be right.

coming together doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with everyone.

what intelligent design is doing is saying the world must have a creator, and then that gives fuel for people to say what that creator wanted us to do.

which i don't agree with.

 

[All Else Failed]

Wow, this rock is very smooth, yet its in my back yard away from any body of water! HAIL YAHWEH

 

[memento_mori]

the sky is so beautiful! how is it that there's just the right number of clouds in the sky to make me happy? obviously there's a creator.

 

[Tim]

coming together doesn't necessarily mean agreeing with everyone.

what intelligent design is doing is saying the world must have a creator, and then that gives fuel for people to say what that creator wanted us to do.

which i don't agree with.

But intelligent design was created by Christian's that needed a way to get creationism taught alongside evolution, since it was a violation of the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution to teach creationism in public schools. So it wasn't brought about to show that there was "some" higher intelligence that created us, it was to show that we were created by God. Intelligent design is nothing more than a play on words to undermine the constitution.

 

[All Else Failed]

Damn it I need to spread some rep before I give you some.


Nicely put.