for all you atheists out there...

[All Else Failed]

I'm not overlooking those events. They fit, and cause no conflict within the scripture. Since you've set me straight on your knowledge of the subject, I don't know why you keep asking these question over and over again. :confused



It was the "Old Testament God" (I don't know where this label came from. He's the same guy in both books) that sent His only begotten son to die for us. That seems to me like a fairly powerful tie-in for the New Testament.

Sin is a barrier between us and God. It always has been. God showed us great mercy and forgiveness when he didn't wipe us off the planet the first time we intentionally disobeyed Him.

There are consequences for sin, but the logic of those consequences somehow proving God is unmerciful is like saying a child's parents are mean, cold hearted brutes for grounding their child after he/she got kicked out of school. If those parents acted the way you seem to think God should have acted, how far in life do you think this kid is going to go?

Do you think the kid would be better off if his parents simply decided to let him play outside, and have an extra helping of dessert after dinner?

Dude... That's crazy talk ha-ha!!

An all loving god does not commit mass genocides.


I know the OT and the NT are the same god. That is what I'm getting at...I think it's ridiculous that god in the OT was a S.O.B. and god in the NT was a love filled entity, and Christians just shoo this fact away.

I'm sorry, but leaving a few peasants to float around the globe in an ark while drowning every man, women, child, baby (Also unborn children, hmmm seem like abortion to me) and animal on Earth is not a merciful act. It's genocidal favoritism!


Are you seriously comparing a child being grounded with the murder of humanity? If god wanted to fix humanity's sinning problem, I think he would be smart enough not to kill them off. It's like dropping an atomic bomb to get rid of an ant hill. If god is so all knowing, he could have done something like send an angel or a sign of some sort and show people how to be good. That would be productive problem solving. But no, it seems god is a child who breaks his toys after getting upset with them.

 

[IntruderLS1]

**Sigh**


No point in Copy/Pasteing old posts.

You belive what you believe with great faith my friend.

When I take my last breath, and I'm in that limbo of realization that my life is over, and I'm dead in a few seconds, I know that I will have a peace of knowledge.

I wish the same for you. Good luck, and God-speed brother.

Peace. :cool

 

[All Else Failed]

**Sigh**


No point in Copy/Pasteing old posts.

You belive what you believe with great faith my friend.

When I take my last breath, and I'm in that limbo of realization that my life is over, and I'm dead in a few seconds, I know that I will have a peace of knowledge.

I wish the same for you. Good luck, and God-speed brother.

Peace. :cool

You still have to answer my question: Is a god that commits genocide really a loving god? Don't use a "parenting" analogy either, since it can hardly relate.

 

[icecuban]

i find it funny that we are all so quick to point out the things "god" did, but everything that happens is gods if thats how we want to look at it. who cares about the violence in the ot and nt, what about outside your door, thats god too. but truely, hardly violence, 80 years of pain, if that, per person, compared to an eternity of bliss for all (my ideas, as you all may have read before) would be easy to see as hardly violent

 

[All Else Failed]

i find it funny that we are all so quick to point out the things "god" did, but everything that happens is gods if thats how we want to look at it. who cares about the violence in the ot and nt, what about outside your door, thats god too. but truely, hardly violence, 80 years of pain, if that, per person, compared to an eternity of bliss for all (my ideas, as you all may have read before) would be easy to see as hardly violent

I care because it is a major subject in theology.

 

[icecuban]

I care because it is a major subject in theology.

im sure u do, or else you wouldnt post so much im guessing. i guess i was kind of backing you, in saying that there is no difference between the god of ot or nt (before christ, after christ<---now). that violence is still going on, and its still from gods hand. but i think the best answer to the violence came in the form of a person who cared, a whole lot! the violence continues, but i think the way out was presented, that is, the example of how we should act "humanly", and care about others, even when we ourselves have nothing, was given. but as long as we do not act upright, then karma will continue this wheel of nasty.

 

[pladecalvo]

but isnt it better to anticipate some sort of afterlife rather than total nothingness? think about it...get back to me

Even Pascal admitted that his 'Wager' was seriously flawed!

good point, but that still doesnt give james or anybody for that matter the right to insult other peoples beliefs.

Nobody has the right to have their beliefs "respected". What if james believed that child pornography was a good thing? What if he believed that black people were inferior to whites or women inferior to men...would you give the same "respect" to his beliefs that you demand for yours? You can respect the person...it is not necessary to respect his beliefs. As Mencken said:

"The most curious social convention of the great age in which we live is the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected."

and.....

"The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame. True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge. Did Darrow, in the course of his dreadful bombardment of Bryan, drop a few shells, incidentally, into measurably cleaner camps? Then let the garrisons of those camps look to their defenses. They are free to shoot back. But they can't disarm their enemy."
-- H L Mencken

If any of you non-religious types can prove that God doesn't exist then maybe you will have a chance of converting religious types.

[FONT=&quot]: [/FONT]Prove Zeus doesn't exist. A failure to prove he doesn't will be taken as a reason to suppose he does. The burden of proof is on them to produce the evidence that their god exists...not for us to prove he doesn't.

....and what's this nonsense about Him knowing whether you are going to heaven or hell before hand?

"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]

God knows all ------> He knows how we will act.


Since he knows all, he will know how we will act ------> He makes us that way

A god that knows all, and makes beings that he already knows the outcome of their lives, is predestination. Since he knows how we will act, when we will sin and such, he already knows who will go to hell or not. Your actions in this life are meaningless.

Precisely! If the Christian god is omniscient as alleged.....predestination is the only outcome. Free-will and omniscience can't co-exist.

Believing in something that cannot be proven, documented, tested, recorded, or be provided with physical evidence usually falls into the "delusional" category. I'm sure you would call someone who claims to be in contact with a alien mothership delusional. But, the term delusional isnt an insulting thing really. .

Every day of their lives, theists use reason, logic and critical thinking to dismiss thousands of examples of primitive, superstitious, imaginary deities. Now why don’t they use that very same logic and critical thinking with which they dismiss leprechauns, unicorns, mermaids and other superstitious nonsense....to dismiss their own superstitious beliefs.Strange isn't it?

 

[Sparkey Duck]

I prefer the newer locals.. wait.. Oh Sorry

Sorry, I thought it was a thread for anaesthetists.. I'll be moving along

 

[Mase]

I'm half agnostic and half someone who doesn't give a crap.

 

[All Else Failed]

Even Pascal admitted that his 'Wager' was seriously flawed!

Nobody has the right to have their beliefs "respected". What if james believed that child pornography was a good thing? What if he believed that black people were inferior to whites or women inferior to men...would you give the same "respect" to his beliefs that you demand for yours? You can respect the person...it is not necessary to respect his beliefs. As Mencken said:

"The most curious social convention of the great age in which we live is the one to the effect that religious opinions should be respected."

and.....

"The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame. True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred. He has no right to preach them without challenge. Did Darrow, in the course of his dreadful bombardment of Bryan, drop a few shells, incidentally, into measurably cleaner camps? Then let the garrisons of those camps look to their defenses. They are free to shoot back. But they can't disarm their enemy."
-- H L Mencken

[FONT=&quot]: [/FONT]Prove Zeus doesn't exist. A failure to prove he doesn't will be taken as a reason to suppose he does. The burden of proof is on them to produce the evidence that their god exists...not for us to prove he doesn't.

"You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]


Precisely! If the Christian god is omniscient as alleged.....predestination is the only outcome. Free-will and omniscience can't co-exist.


Every day of their lives, theists use reason, logic and critical thinking to dismiss thousands of examples of primitive, superstitious, imaginary deities. Now why don’t they use that very same logic and critical thinking with which they dismiss leprechauns, unicorns, mermaids and other superstitious nonsense....to dismiss their own superstitious beliefs.Strange isn't it?

Yes, free will is simply silly.

 

[Cajun Fox]

if im not mistaken, you all believe that there are no godlike beings, thus no afterlife. when you die, you die, end of discussion.

but i have a question...normally when you cannot remember something, its as if that never happened (like infant years). so when you die, your brain ceases to function, so you cant remember ANYTHING. therefore, from your perspective, you never existed.

(im going to hell for this statement) i am aware that organized religion seems to be similar to a cult...

(dont reply yet)

We exist. You only get one life to live...that's it. After that there is no afterlife or anything...you're literally screwed by then.

 

[Minor Axis]

Let me ask you this; if there is an after life which is eternal, what is the point of this life?

If thinking in philosophical terms life on earth is like the ultimate simulation, you experience it, learn something from it, become a better person/entity for it, and hopefully take these lessons with you for your next life on Earth (or wherever, heaven if you prefer). I don't mean to say you actually remember events from a former life, but it's something at your core that makes you better or maybe you fall down and become worse and come back as a bug, who knows. BTW I'm open to the possibility of reincarnation, but I'm not sold on it.

In contrast if the purpose of your life is to live on Earth for a number of years, raise a family, go to work, etc, then you die and it's all over, what's the point of that? I'm not saying it could not be that way, but I prefer to believe the former.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

What matters to me is that here and now, with this life, I am concious of myself, surroundings, and others. This is all I know, and I'm not going to worry about what goes on with me after this is over. That would make this absolutely unnecessary.

 

[DavyBoy]

hmm I'm going to do my whole those-28-pages-don't-exist thing and reply to the first post.

Randomguy. The idea of an afterlife is far, far more appealing than eternal nothingness. Eternal nothingness scares the shit out of me.

So what? It is also the far, far more logical outcome. This is obviously the case, so what you are saying is that we should believe something simply because we want to. I'd like to believe that I'm going to somehow stumble upon 1,000,000 dollars tomorrow, but that's not going to happen either.

 

[DaveM]

I don't beleive in god, but I beleive in an afterlife, not the traditional heaven/hell thing though

 

[Trancebound]

I don't belive in the so called 'God' Figure that everyone thinks is there,My honest opion not trying to offend anyone.
I belive that theres a higher being but nothing to the nature of what God is cracked up to be.
And when you die?
You die.
Humans are animals to, when you smash a fly, does it go to heaven? What about a cat? A dog? See my point?

 

[Minor Axis]

I don't beleive in god, but I beleive in an afterlife, not the traditional heaven/hell thing though

On what basis don't you believe in God? What if God was not the God described by most of the religious-leaning human race, but something abstract, some spiritual force that is in all of us? Something we really don't understand, because we can only guess about?

I don't belive in the so called 'God' Figure that everyone thinks is there,My honest opion not trying to offend anyone.
I belive that theres a higher being but nothing to the nature of what God is cracked up to be.
And when you die?
You die.
Humans are animals to, when you smash a fly, does it go to heaven? What about a cat? A dog? See my point?

I'm gonna help you out. In your life, you sit in a metaphorical physical room with no windows. On the other side of the wall you have no idea what is there but it represents possibly, the spiritual plane. Every so often you imagine you hear something.

So what is out there? Could be nothing, or your imagination, or it could be something. This is how we live our lives. You are assuming there is no God, and when I say God I'm speaking of an abstract spiritual force that might be in a different plane of existence or a different dimension, which most likely is nothing like described in any religious handbook written by man. We live in a physical plane. We could be surrounded by a spiritual plane. What do we know about it? ZIP. Because we are in our windowless room, how are we qualified to know what is on the other side of the wall? We might suspect, but we have no real idea. Therefore, assumptions like "there is no God", "there is a God with these qualities" is just a guess based on nothing substantial.

As far as living things going to "heaven", that might be hard to fathom if you are a follower of Christianity, who has decided people are really special, above all the other animals, but what are we? Just more advanced animals. IF there is a spiritual afterlife, why could not all living things somehow share in that experience? Something to ponder...

 

[ssl]

Topics concerning religion become a difficult topic to discuss|debate because we have precious few facts from which to form logically-sound presentations with; therefore, talks deriving from the interpretations of the basic beliefs and the evolution of said beliefs can and will be difficult to settle|finish.

That being said, I do not identify with any religion, nor do I side myself any type of non-religious label (such as atheist). I think it is firstly unfair, and secondly creating another religion, which has too many psychological implications, I'd rather not delve into at this moment, since I just woke up.

However, I would like to point out that what I do believe in. One does not need to believe in anything to live one's life. How could this be possible? Take a look around you: Wars are still fought, diseases are still rampaging. "Oh, but there are good things occurring as well, ssl." I don't doubt it, as my mother being one of them; she's been battling cancer for some time, and she's winning (currently). But the dark side exists as well, since I have not had a fatherly influence since the age of six. Probably would not have shaped up to be the person I am today without such an environment, and I doubt I am the *only* one, so no pity parties over here (I rather liked the situation, to be honest).

Perception is the devious sibling to reality; by that I mean an individual's perception of reality (events going on around them) can be seen in many lights, most of the time dominated by what the media reports. Sure, death sucks, but what about how it brings a family closer together, even if for a few months? I don't see it as a bad thing, especially since I've been through it.

If there is a superior entity, it was pulling some strings, I think; but I'm not going to alter my values based on what I spend my life on trying to find about this superior entity; if it decides I should stand before it and have a little chat about how I lived my life, I do my research then. While I am here on this plane of existence, I shall do what I think I should do.

If there is an after life, guess what? I deal with it... after this life.

 

[Codrus]

:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup

 

[JanieDough]

too much for 2:22 AM