I have?
Do you believe the Bible to be fully true?
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Fox Mulder
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No valley DID NOT call dt3 a liar. That's a very serious allegation not to be thrown around lightly. I've read the thread and I didn't see where anyone called you or dt3 a liar.
dt3:
That doesn't change the fact that I was a true believer, and now am not. Unless you're saying I never truly believed?
Valley:
Thats what i'm saying.
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He's saying he was a true believer. But not anymore, and she said that a true believer can't stray away (which, indeed is completely wrong, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE). Hence, she said he wasn't a true believer, therefore, he's a liar.
That doesn't change the fact that I was a true believer, and now am not. Unless you're saying I never truly believed?
Valley:
Thats what i'm saying.
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He's saying he was a true believer. But not anymore, and she said that a true believer can't stray away (which, indeed is completely wrong, ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE). Hence, she said he wasn't a true believer, therefore, he's a liar.
I cant see air, it must be fake.
I cant see whats under the crust of the earth. What cannot be proven beyond belief or logical guesses is a lie. There is some "evidence" of truths to Jesus teachings, the african eve, and a bunch of historical finds that the bible was used to narrow down in location. Jesus Christ, the person, was also 100% for sure a factual figure. That is logical enough to dismiss Abrahamic religion instantly.
As for the Joker, you seriously need to just step back and look at the big picture, and not assume that everything that you read on mainstream tv/bandwangong information is the truth.
First off, your assumptions of prayer are flat out stupid. I have no other way of putting it. Multiple religions believe in prayer for multiple things. For a Catholic, true "prayer" is much more formal, and you do not ask of worldy things. You may say, "Oh, that is stupid then! So God wont do anything unless it cant be proven!" However, if he/she/it (God) were to hear your prayers and grant your wishes soley so that people may believe, he defeats the purpose of wanting people to WANT to go on a whim and have faith. I firstly suggest you just do basic research on prayer, realize there is a distinction in religion on prayer, and realize the intent of prayer itself. It isnt meant to be "Jesus, make the braves win! Because this has nothing to do with you, and will not help me achieve the goal of spiritual salvation!".
I also simply do not understand your rage at Christians. I do not comprehend why it upsets you tha people translate the Bible as it is. I personally, do not translate the Bible literally, as do most Christians. I am also aware (more so than you, id assume) that there are many, many translations. A text of that size is obviously going to have flaws, especially when monks used to hand-copy the bible in their coven. Howeve, ASSUMING jesus is not real, why hate the Bible if it allows people to have light in their life? Why try and stop people from finding answers to questions that haunt their mind, even if untrue or incorrect? Why not allow people to have a passage from the turmoil n their mind? Is there something wrong with this?
No, there isnt. I am sure there are totally false things in your life that you tak comfort to as well. How are you so different from a person believing in the Bible? Because it is based on spiritual salvation? But you dont believe in that anyways, so I fail to see why you mock people for having belief in a text that may or may not be true. You will never be able to prove it false, as they may never be able to prove it true.
All valid, good points.
Except around the 2nd last paragraph.
I haunt their minds because they haunt ours, perhaps this thread is not the greatest example, but Christianity and other Religions are being forced on people all over the world.
It's like vegetarians, they see you eating meet "How can you eat that stuff? Poor animals" The answer is simply "Because I like it". They haunt you. Christians do the same thing:
"How can you not believe in god, are you blind?"
The answer is simply
"I like my life the way it is, so fuck off"
Well, you bring up a good point, because the hypocrisy in the Christian world today is unbelieveable. I'll quote DC Talk on this one...
"The single greatest cause for atheism in the world today are Christians! Who acknowledge Jesus with their lips and then walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle. That is what the unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."
It's very true, and instead of Christians becoming an example for a good way for the world to live, most who profess to be Christians are no different than the world!
Here's another quote, from the Barma Group (a research group).
It's amazing to me that only 8% of protestants (Christians) have a Biblical worldview, but it can certainly be seen in the number of people who claim to be Christian but do not live like one.
By the way, I'm absolutely not trying to say that I am perfect in any way, or better than anyone else. But I certainly believe that the #1 reason that people do not believe in Christianity is that many people claim to be Christian who are not, and the world watches them to find out what Christians are like, and the world sees nothing different about those supposed "Christians" than themselves.
All that being said Joker, I don't blame you for feeling the way you do. I really don't. From an outsiders perspective, I can see how hypocrisy and pushiness can easily push a person away from Christianity or anything to do with it.
It was written many years ago...that's a fact. And all throughout this time...we've had people that've lived their lifes as lies.
Some people wish to spread their faith, its up to you to listen. However, you are simply being a hypocrit. If you want to be the better man by your standards, you should just ignore them and continue on. For Christians, they want to spread their word in an attempt to save peoples souls. Even if you do not believe in a God, atleast their intentions were originally good ones. Even if you have no interest in hearing them, you dont have to be a dick. Simply say you are not interested, walk away, and live your own life. You counter-preaching is just the yin of their yang.
No one is perfect, therefore no one is going to follow the rules ever. Unless you are divine, and I am not sure a purely divine figure has ever existed in an Abrahamic religion. Mohammed was not divine at all, and Jesus is believed to be half divine, half man.
He wants his rules followed of course. However, no human is or ever will be perfect. Its in our nature to be flawed. I think he wants us to live a respectable life that would make him proud, like any son to a father. Lord knows I am flawed in many ways, but that wont stop me from trying my best to look like his child.
I never said teh bible was flawed or perfect, infact I said its 100% impossible for the "bible" to be perfect.
some words cannot be translated into other languages. I learned a latin word that meant to force someone to have oral sex on you (crude example, sorry
). This word cannot be translated into english by itself, it had to be phrased with 5-6 words for it to make sense. More and more of these un-translateable words will arise as it is translated into more and more languages. Also, the bible is loooonngg, and it used to be hand copied before Guttenbergs (sp?) printing press was invented, usually by monks. I highly doubt ANY of those bibles didnt have ANY flaws. Its simply too long.
At the same time, I am also 99% certain that ALL of the MAJOR bible translations are for the most part aimed/contain the same message. Its not important to be hung up on the words, because in the end, all that matter is that you follow what Jesus/God wants us to do, which is very easy/human.
some words cannot be translated into other languages. I learned a latin word that meant to force someone to have oral sex on you (crude example, sorry
). This word cannot be translated into english by itself, it had to be phrased with 5-6 words for it to make sense. More and more of these un-translateable words will arise as it is translated into more and more languages. Also, the bible is loooonngg, and it used to be hand copied before Guttenbergs (sp?) printing press was invented, usually by monks. I highly doubt ANY of those bibles didnt have ANY flaws. Its simply too long.At the same time, I am also 99% certain that ALL of the MAJOR bible translations are for the most part aimed/contain the same message. Its not important to be hung up on the words, because in the end, all that matter is that you follow what Jesus/God wants us to do, which is very easy/human.
Sorry never meant to imply that you thought the Bible was perfect. However I bet there are people who think it is perfect.
Talking about mistranslations, I find it kind of interesting to note that in the original text it does not explicitly say that Jesus was born a virgin, but rather an "almah", which means young girl. Just always found that interesting.
Talking about mistranslations, I find it kind of interesting to note that in the original text it does not explicitly say that Jesus was born a virgin, but rather an "almah", which means young girl. Just always found that interesting.
I didn't mean preach to me, it's insult me directly and not my faith for not believing what they do.
I've been called "Bloody Atheist" "Moron" "Blind idiot" and more, by various "Christians"
Peter Parka
Well-Known Member
There are parts of the Bible which have been proved to be true but these are overshadowed by the glaring inacuracies. Of course people who believe it will give you the same old tired arguement about taking it out of context which makes you wonder what the point of it at all is if you can twist it to whatever you want to believe.
Correction: Jesus is 100% man and 100% God (or 100% divine and sinless). At least that's the way I and many others I know believe it.
The Bible was inspired by God. What this means is, He was "there" telling those who were writing the Bible what to write.
Also, regarding the reliability of it being copied down by hand for generations... there were so many copies of the same text that we can compare to find discrepancies and take them out. I believe that the text we have now (in Hebrew and Greek) is VERY close to the original. I'd also say that because God is divine and ruler over everything, he could make sure there were no mistakes in it as it was copied down, or at least that mistakes would be caught and eliminated down the road.
I also remember hearing (don't have a source for this though) that various passages of the Bible were copied by many scribes at the same time to ensure there would be no mistakes, and that the quality of scribes was so highly sought after during their day that one mistake would cost them their job. So basically, they would always be dang sure they made every copy perfectly.
BTW, here's a link explaining more about the reliability of the Bible.
Is the Bible Reliable?
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