Divine Hiddenness

[edgray]

Well, obviously there are circumstances that you can't change. And yeah, the RNG of life fucks some people over while letting others get away with everything. But it's still not "luck" that put me where I am in life. I was born a specific way to a specific set of people for a reason. The millions and millions of steps that took place in my mother's womb to bring me here. It wasn't an accident. It sucks that there are people in the world who are starving. And believe me, if I was one of those rich fat cats, you'd bet your ass I'd be sending them money and food. Anything *I* could do to help change their circumstances..to give them a chance to even try and attain what I could. But just because they can't bring themselves to a first world country and live an "awesome" life or whatever here..doesn't mean that they can't bring SOME good things to themselves.

And I don't think there's anything mystical about it, either. I just think that if you try, you can bring good things to yourself. I've lived at, or just above, poverty level before. So, I'm not a spoiled kid who always had it easy saying these things..just so we're clear on that.

I don't think a starving infant in Ethiopia can bring anything about for themselves. Remember, over 30,000 children starve to death every single day. What you're essentially saying is that those kids were born simply to starve to death. That sounds pretty harsh to me.

 

[sexysadie]

it's worth pointing out that there are plenty of historical records from biblical times, none of which mention any of the supposed miracles that happened, let alone Jesus's existence...

Have you read the New Testiment? the Epistles of Paul to be exact?

 

[darkcgi]

the answer is that we don't know what the answer is
and no one on earth does

you can either believe it or not
I have found that believing it is better than not when it comes to peace in mind and sanity

 

[sexysadie]

billions of years since the creation of the universe. 13.7 to be a little more precise.

I'm not saying it's not possible. Like I've said many times, there is room for a creator, at the beginning of the universe. After that, there's just a whole bunch of natural, explainable forces.

I tend to look deeper, at the smaller, not so obvious signs of God, the ones we take for granted.

 

[edgray]

Have you read the New Testiment? the Epistles of Paul to be exact?

That's not a valid historical document. None of the scriptures are.

 

[edgray]

I tend to look deeper, at the smaller, not so obvious signs of God, the ones we take for granted.

such as?

 

[sexysadie]

I don't think a starving infant in Ethiopia can bring anything about for themselves. Remember, over 30,000 children starve to death every single day. What you're essentially saying is that those kids were born simply to starve to death. That sounds pretty harsh to me.

Do you plan on having children one day?

 

[anathelia]

I don't think a starving infant in Ethiopia can bring anything about for themselves. Remember, over 30,000 children starve to death every single day. What you're essentially saying is that those kids were born simply to starve to death. That sounds pretty harsh to me.

That's not what I said at all. I said I was born the way I was and where I was for a reason. That reason being the millions and millions of steps that it took to make me into a person in my mother's womb. Nothing more and nothing less. I'm really not a harsh human being, and you should probably read what I said a little more carefully before you assume otherwise.

 

[TommyTooter]

there is at least one sentience, and apparently quite a few, that seem to be separate from the entity that i know as myself who communicate with me telepathically. they send very clear messages, particularly when i'm in the presence of something profoundly good or profoundly evil.

some of them identify themselves as friends and relatives that have passed from this world. i felt the presence of john lennon, janis joplin, jimi hendrix and jim morrison very clearly at a grateful dead show once but i was very high at the time from the music with a chemical assist, so that one gets racked up as a really good hallucination.

yes, i even hear the demons. i remember one when i was much younger that was raging at me to kill my grandmother. but that one main voice, the one that some authors call 'the teacher' or 'the master' is always there through the din with pure love and proper guidance.

i survived an abusive father and life in the inner city without killing anybody because the master was always with me when situations got violent.

is that god? or is it just me deluding myself? does it really matter if the guidance i get is good and keeps me from harm or causing it?

 

[Peter Parka]

I don't NEED evidence to back up my beliefs...that's what it means to believe....GET IT?...lol

:24: So why are you getting so sensitive when I point out the lack of evidence and reliance on blind faith in your beliefs when that's exactly what you are saying?
Oh, and if you're trying to have a debate about religion and you're trying to prove your beliefs by saying you dont need any evidence, you just need to believe - you lose and arn't going to convince anyone but the extremely gullible.

 

[retro]

it's worth pointing out that there are plenty of historical records from biblical times, none of which mention any of the supposed miracles that happened, let alone Jesus's existence...

Tacticus and Josephus both mention Jesus.

 

[sexysadie]

That's not a valid historical document. None of the scriptures are.

Why not, because you say so? ...... the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) have been recognized as being actual documents which were written by Paul in the middle of the first century..... less than 40 years after Jesus' death. In terms of ancient manuscript evidence, this is extraordinarily strong proof of the existence of a man named Jesus living in Israel in the early first century A.D.

That being said, it doesn't surprise me that little evidence of Jesus' existance remains. Jerusalem was literally destroyed, most of it's people slaughtered. Entire cities were literally burned to the ground. We should not be surprised, then, if much evidence of Jesus' existence was destroyed.

 

[sexysadie]

:24: So why are you getting so sensitive when I point out the lack of evidence and reliance on blind faith in your beliefs when that's exactly what you are saying?
Oh, and if you're trying to have a debate about religion and you're trying to prove your beliefs by saying you dont need any evidence, you just need to believe - you lose and arn't going to convince anyone but the extremely gullible.

So in one breath you accuse me of being too sensitve, blind and gullible....gotcha!

You can say that I'm wrong because it's insanely impossible but I can't say it's so because I believe it to be so? Is this your idea of a proper debate tactic?

 

[Peter Parka]

So in one breath you accuse me of being too sensitve, blind and gullible....gotcha!

You can say that I'm wrong because it's insanely impossible but I can't say it's so because I believe it to be so? Is this your idea of a proper debate tactic?

You can believe what you like, love but when you come into a debate trying to convince people of your beliefs with no evidence of your beliefs to back your point up, whatsoever, you're not going to get very far!

 

[sexysadie]

such as?

Like our ability to love, to think, to question and last but not least, to merely exist. I can go all blonde on you and talk about how wise God was to give us arms so that our hands wouldn't dangle from our shoulders but I won't.....

 

[darkcgi]

sure people would like evidence
but truth is we can prove or disapprove that a non God created our evidence
or vice versa
so why argue
just choose to believe or dont
but be aware that people who do not believe
die with a bad feeling of accomplishment and or regrets
and this is a way to become intune and abolish that feeling
and makes this person more hormonious in the social group know as mankind
this is in no way a slight against God. It is meirely that we know we exist and we really dont know why but we
are learning and we want to be happy and these are things that help us reach our goal of being happy and alive and when we die still remain happy.

 

[sexysadie]

You can believe what you like, love but when you come into a debate trying to convince people of your beliefs with no evidence of your beliefs to back your point up, whatsoever, you're not going to get very far!

I suppose I could say the same thing about you.....love.

 

[Springsteen]

I suppose I could say the same thing about you.....love.

Nice comeback, but he's right. If you are trying to get people to believe this story you choose to believe then you are failing and will always fail because there is no evidence whatsoever to prove it's truthfulness.

 

[sexysadie]

Nice comeback, but he's right. If you are trying to get people to believe this story you choose to believe then you are failing and will always fail because there is no evidence whatsoever to prove it's truthfulness.

Like I said before, I'm not here to convince anybody of anything, I'm merely stating what I believe.....as far as I'm concerned it's the responsibliity of the thread owner to prove his or her point.

 

[edgray]

Do you plan on having children one day?

one day sure. It's no miracle tho, it's fully understood how life is created.

That's not what I said at all. I said I was born the way I was and where I was for a reason. That reason being the millions and millions of steps that it took to make me into a person in my mother's womb. Nothing more and nothing less. I'm really not a harsh human being, and you should probably read what I said a little more carefully before you assume otherwise.

I read what you said, and understood perfectly. So YOU were born where you were for a reason, yet the starving kids weren't? That is what you're saying now.

Tacticus and Josephus both mention Jesus.

Yes there are some mentions of Jesus, though not any of the miracles he performed. Tacitus wasn't alive at the time, so he was basing a lot of his work on second hand material of questionable origins.

You'd have thought that the miracles surrounding Jesus would have been recorded, no? Kind of weird they were overlooked, don't you think? Not to mention the whole son of God thing...

The account in Tacitus points to Jesus being something of a violent revolutionary if anything.

Why not, because you say so? ...... the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) have been recognized as being actual documents which were written by Paul in the middle of the first century..... less than 40 years after Jesus' death. In terms of ancient manuscript evidence, this is extraordinarily strong proof of the existence of a man named Jesus living in Israel in the early first century A.D.

Lol yeah its only extraordinary proof for religious believers. Secular history doesn't see it the same way.

That being said, it doesn't surprise me that little evidence of Jesus' existance remains. Jerusalem was literally destroyed, most of it's people slaughtered. Entire cities were literally burned to the ground. We should not be surprised, then, if much evidence of Jesus' existence was destroyed.

So the question is, on what do you base your belief that he was the son of God, fed 5000 people with a couple of bits of fish, rose from the grave, healed the sick etc etc?

The question of Jesus existing is still highly debatable, let alone the far-fetched descriptions in the religious texts.