Divine Hiddenness

[Minor Axis]

Its up to you what you believe but if you're going to come in a debate about god and the only thing you're got is "I have faith" or your reasons are just "complicated" without any attempt to explain them, you're not going to convince any one of anything.

Debating God is mostly a huge waste of time but here we are... When it comes to God and spirituality, faith is all there is, but that does not mean it's not there.

 

[sexysadie]

it's actually impossible to prove that something does not exist. The burden of proof, as Peter said, lies squarely in the hands of the believers.

I beg to differ, I know He exists and I don't need to create little threads arguing with those who don't. If one feels the need to do so then the burden of truth should be in their court.....they should be made to come up with something original instead of spewing the same old bs and merely labelling those who disagree with them as insane or intellectually challenged. If I start a debate about anything I feel it's my duty to do my research and like most intelligent debaters are aware of, there are two sides to every story. Starting a thread that states your total and utter disrespect for those on the opposing side does not a debate make and imo it makes your opinion even weeker. It's the old...*me tinks the man protests too much* argument....lol...c'ya.

 

[anathelia]

And I assume your familiarity with Christ is based on the Bible and a bunch of adults who indoctrinated you as a child? What is the basis for trusting the Bible as an accurate representation and defacto proof of God as described? This is a rhetorical question, as I don't expect you to explain yourself, but you may recognize the dilemma. Just because a bunch of adults believe, have elaborate rituals in a fancy building, is this a reason for you to believe? What if you were born on the opposite side of the World, maybe you would have been exposed to a different religion that does not recognize Jesus as the Son of God? My intent is not to belittle your beliefs but provoke some alternate ideas. I realize my chances are slim. Once the God theory variant has taken root, it is really hard to consider any other possibility because it feels so comforting.

I'm not really the best person to ask that question, though, because as i stated several posts back..I don't think I believe in God in the same sense that most Christians do. I question everything. I go to church because I'm *looking* for what you're asking for. I took a Philosophy of Religion class in school last semester, and I know my professor had a proof for why there has to be "God" in the sense of a divine being. IMO, the only reason I even believe there's something out there anymore is because, as I've said, I've seen miracles happen, and I refuse to believe it was just by random chance.

In other words, I do realize that it's hard to believe in the "bible"...and truth be told...I look at the bible as more of a guider..a book full of parables to help guide your life. I believe most, if not all, of the stories in the bible are *not* to be taken literally.

I'm not really the standard Christian you're looking for in this question.

 

[Peter Parka]

I beg to differ, I know He exists and I don't need to create little threads arguing with those who don't. If one feels the need to do so then the burden of truth should be in their court.....they should be made to come up with something original instead of spewing the same old bs and merely labelling those who disagree with them as insane or intellectually challenged. If I start a debate about anything I feel it's my duty to do my research and like most intelligent debaters are aware of, there are two sides to every story. Starting a thread that states your total and utter disrespect for those on the opposing side does not a debate make and imo it makes your opinion even weeker. It's the old...*me tinks the man protests too much* argument....lol...c'ya.

Interesting, the OP has pointed out likely reason for his point of view, the only thing you can counter it with is "I believe so therefore it is" and yet he's talking bull shit because you dont like it.:24::24::24:

 

[edgray]

I beg to differ, I know He exists and I don't need to create little threads arguing with those who don't. If one feels the need to do so then the burden of truth should be in their court.....they should be made to come up with something original instead of spewing the same old bs and merely labelling those who disagree with them as insane or intellectually challenged. If I start a debate about anything I feel it's my duty to do my research and like most intelligent debaters are aware of, there are two sides to every story. Starting a thread that states your total and utter disrespect for those on the opposing side does not a debate make and imo it makes your opinion even weeker. It's the old...*me tinks the man protests too much* argument....lol...c'ya.

woah ok, I don't know how any of that at all relates to what I said. I understand that you believe, all I said was that it is impossible to prove something does not exist. It's just not possible. That's all.

I'll tell you why. If I took on the challenge to prove 100% that God does not exist, what would I have to do to convince you? I'd have to scour every inch of the universe for starters, look behind every planet, and every atom.

Now, does that sound possible to you? Any ideas how big the universe is?

 

[sexysadie]

Its up to you what you believe but if you're going to come in a debate about god and the only thing you're got is "I have faith" or your reasons are just "complicated" without any attempt to explain them, you're not going to convince any one of anything.

These threads and this topic is soooo old...lol..it's frustrating to say the least to come into the same old nonsense but I do it, not to convince you or anybody else that there's a God, but to encourage you to keep the topic alive....as long as people are discussing His existence, imo, that means that He's impacted your lives in one way or another....and it's a great way to get others to read...reading leads to thought and thought leads to all sorts of new ideas. If he didn't exist then the mere mention of His existence would be old news by now...lol..so....keep up the good work. gotta go....laters

 

[anathelia]

Here's the professor I spoke of. And the book he wrote..and the basic steps to reach the existence of God by reason. You may not agree, but it's a decent book and it'll at least make you think.


http://wikibin.org/articles/surrendra-gangadean.html

 

[sexysadie]

woah ok, I don't know how any of that at all relates to what I said. I understand that you believe, all I said was that it is impossible to prove something does not exist. It's just not possible. That's all.

I'll tell you why. If I took on the challenge to prove 100% that God does not exist, what would I have to do to convince you? I'd have to scour every inch of the universe for starters, look behind every planet, and every atom.

Now, does that sound possible to you? Any ideas how big the universe is?

Exactly!!

 

[edgray]

Exactly!!

I would never like to say 100% He doesn't exist for this very reason.

 

[sexysadie]

Since this thread was created by somebody who doesn't believe in God....and since that side has totally admitted that there is no way on God's green earth of proving that He doesn't...lol...then I guess we believers win this debate. Cut/ tape/ go to commercial...lol

 

[Peter Parka]

Since this thread was created by somebody who doesn't believe in God....and since that side has totally admitted that there is no way on God's green earth of proving that He doesn't...lol...then I guess we believers win this debate. Cut/ tape/ go to commercial...lol

The reasoning or lack of it amonst certain Christians is hilarious.:24::24::24::24::24::24::24::24::24:

 

[edgray]

Since this thread was created by somebody who doesn't believe in God....and since that side has totally admitted that there is no way on God's green earth of proving that He doesn't...lol...then I guess we believers win this debate. Cut/ tape/ go to commercial...lol

nice try but as said before, the burden of proof lies with the believers because it is impossible to prove something does not exist. Non believers don't have to do anything because of this reason.

 

[Peter Parka]

I think I'm going to believe in a god who hates all Christians and is going to strike them down for their wrong beliefs. Seeing they cant prove he dosent exist, I win the debate! :24::24::24::24::24::24:

 

[Springsteen]

nice try but as said before, the burden of proof lies with the believers because it is impossible to prove something does not exist. Non believers don't have to do anything because of this reason.

Yeah true, I mean I myself am a non believer. When asked why I just say "I just don't". Whereas if you asked a believer they would have to show proof, whether it be with yarns from the Bible or experiences they have had. But then the problem is the conversation becomes a lot longer because there might be a lot of if's and buts.

 

[Minor Axis]

Starting a thread that states your total and utter disrespect for those on the opposing side does not a debate make and imo it makes your opinion even weeker.

I hope you not letting your emotions carry you away. I don't beleive the starter of this thread feels that way. Disagreement is not disrespect.

I'm not really the best person to ask that question, though, because as i stated several posts back..I don't think I believe in God in the same sense that most Christians do. I question everything. I go to church because I'm *looking* for what you're asking for. I took a Philosophy of Religion class in school last semester, and I know my professor had a proof for why there has to be "God" in the sense of a divine being. IMO, the only reason I even believe there's something out there anymore is because, as I've said, I've seen miracles happen, and I refuse to believe it was just by random chance.

In other words, I do realize that it's hard to believe in the "bible"...and truth be told...I look at the bible as more of a guider..a book full of parables to help guide your life. I believe most, if not all, of the stories in the bible are *not* to be taken literally.

I'm not really the standard Christian you're looking for in this question.

Actually I was asking you because you are not the typical sounding Christain and I was trying to differentiate between "religious" and "Christian". You don't seem like the traditional Christian, but commitment to Christ is a commitment usually based on Bible study and Christian teachings. Not trying to put you on the spot, and if you feel like discussing it, what would you say is the origin of your religious feelings? I'm curious if childhood exposure to religion had a substantial effect on the formulation of your beliefs? And just how important is Christ in the big scheme of things? Again, I'm not trying to pick on you or single you out in this discussion. Feel free to ignore me.

 

[anathelia]

I hope you not letting your emotions carry you away. I don't beleive the starter of this thread feels that way. Disagreement is not disrespect.



Actually I was asking you because you are not the typical sounding Christain and I was trying to differentiate between "religious" and "Christian". You don't seem like the traditional Christian, but commitment to Christ is a commitment usually based on Bible study and Christian teachings. Not trying to put you on the spot, and if you feel like discussing it, what would you say is the origin of your religious feelings? I'm curious if childhood exposure to religion had a substantial effect on the formulation of your beliefs? And just how important is Christ in the big scheme of things? Again, I'm not trying to pick on you or single you out in this discussion. Feel free to ignore me.

I was actually initially raised Catholic. When I was 9 or 10, we switched and started going to a "non-denominational" Christian church. I believed at the time, because that's what I was taught. When I was like 15, though, I started questioning my faith and whatnot. I really felt like I didn't have anything to believe in. Three years ago, my brother overdosed on cocaine. The doctor's all told us he was probably going to die. And if he didn't, he was going to be in a vegetative state. The MRIs of his brain showed extensive, seemingly irreparable damage. He was in a coma for five weeks, but he defied everything every doctor had told us, and still tells us. He improves every day, and I know a lot of that now is on sheer determination. But, I feel fairly certain that he made it through those first few days because someone was looking over him. I don't know who, I don't know what. But it's that..divine being I can't quite define. I label it as God, because that's how I was raised, but really..I think it's up for interpretation.

 

[Minor Axis]

Here's the professor I spoke of. And the book he wrote..and the basic steps to reach the existence of God by reason. You may not agree, but it's a decent book and it'll at least make you think.


http://wikibin.org/articles/surrendra-gangadean.html

Thanks for the link. Interesting reading! It's easy to say yes there is God. What is hard is attributing characteristics to it.

1. What is God?
2. If God exists who created God? Don't say he created himself!
2. Could the laws of physics be created by an intelligent entity or be the byproduct of some something much larger and even more mysterious?
3. What exists beyond infinity?
4. Doe God have a direct hand or relationship with living things or are we and our universe just swirling around in one of his very large beakers?
5. If the nature of our existence and the order of things is beyond all human understanding why worry about it? Just go with the flow.

I was actually initially raised Catholic. When I was 9 or 10, we switched and started going to a "non-denominational" Christian church. I believed at the time, because that's what I was taught. When I was like 15, though, I started questioning my faith and whatnot. I really felt like I didn't have anything to believe in. Three years ago, my brother overdosed on cocaine. The doctor's all told us he was probably going to die. And if he didn't, he was going to be in a vegetative state. The MRIs of his brain showed extensive, seemingly irreparable damage. He was in a coma for five weeks, but he defied everything every doctor had told us, and still tells us. He improves every day, and I know a lot of that now is on sheer determination. But, I feel fairly certain that he made it through those first few days because someone was looking over him. I don't know who, I don't know what. But it's that..divine being I can't quite define. I label it as God, because that's how I was raised, but really..I think it's up for interpretation.

That could be. I've also had that sensation, but then I ask myself, luck, fate, random effect, or divine intervention? We are all looking for answers, trying to put our finger on the answer.

 

[BornReady]

I don't believe the starter of this thread feels that way. Disagreement is not disrespect.

True. Anyone who is respectful of others deserves respect in return regardless of what they believe. Imo Christians are more guilty of disrespecting someone because of his belief (or lack thereof) than atheists are (although I could be biased). This is not because Christians are bad people, they're not. I think most people are basically decent people. But for some reason Christians seem to have difficulty separating a person from their beliefs. While I think all people deserve respect, I do not think all beliefs deserve respect. Even cherished beliefs are fair game. In the end I can make a case that a particular belief is unreasonable or even silly. But I would never wish to tell someone what they are allowed to believe. I believe in free thought.

I will not apologize for starting religious threads. I like to encourage people to think about their beliefs. I like to encourage critical thinking in general. It's good for the mind. It's good for society. It's why many people such as myself come to forums in the first place.

 

[anathelia]

Thanks for the link. Interesting reading! It's easy to say yes there is God. What is hard is attributing characteristics to it.

1. What is God?
2. If God exists who created God? Don't say he created himself!
2. Could the laws of physics be created by an intelligent entity or be the byproduct of some something much larger and even more mysterious?
3. What exists beyond infinity?
4. Doe God have a direct hand or relationship with living things or are we and our universe just swirling around in one of his very large beakers?
5. If the nature of our existence and the order of things is beyond all human understanding why worry about it? Just go with the flow.



That could be. I've also had that sensation, but then I ask myself, luck, fate, random effect, or divine intervention? We are all looking for answers, trying to put our finger on the answer.

Several of those questions are the same ones I have, especially the first.

I don't believe in luck. I think we create our circumstances. Law of attraction kind of thing. http://thesecret.tv/living.html

 

[edgray]

I don't believe in luck. I think we create our circumstances. Law of attraction kind of thing. http://thesecret.tv/living.html

tell that to all the starving people in the world! There's a lot of people born into impossible circumstances. By saying we create our own circumstances, you're simply blaming them for their plight...

I do like the idea behind the secret. I read the book a couple of years ago. I don't believe in the law of attraction per se. It does encourage you to work towards something, and it will come. That kind of makes perfect sense, but I don't think there isn't anything mystical about it tho.