YOUR Trayvon Martin theory - what exactly happened?

[sirjake]

I don't think all the evidence is out there in the media. The forensics may tell alot about what happened. Either way the media has been very one sided. Innocent until proven guilty? I wonder if they have ever heard of that.

 

[The Man]

I agree here. Her testimony is only what she CLAIMS was said. Besides it still doesn't explain exactly what happened. Even the 911 operator saying "we don't need you to do that"(follow him) isn't an order not to follow Martin. If it was an order they should have said "do not follow him". Even at the end of that call I don't remember hearing Zimmerman acknowledge he even heard what the operator said. Zimmerman may have dropped his phone after the 911 operator asked if he was following Martin and Zimmerman answered. Alot here depends on what Zimmerman has to say. He really hasn't had a chance to talk because of the lynch mobs and the media. But if he is guilty he should be sentenced. At this point I really don't think it is possible for him to get a fair trial.

Agreed.
Why didnt she call the cops?
The parents?
Why didnt she come forth sooner?
If some guy is following her boyfriend and he tells her that he is being followed...wouldnt she be panicked when the line went dead?
I would give her testimony very little weight.

Agreed I dont thing they can get him for disobeying an officer...which means he wouldnt have been committing a crime while looking for martin which wont ruin his self defense strategy.

 

[mclovin1]

The conversation she describes doesn't sound like a normal conversation anyway. It sounds made up or extremely modified. She has a motive to slant the conversation so that it isn't in favor of the man who shot her boyfriend.

 

[clancy]

Alot of people do seem to take her word as being true even though what she is claiming is pretty much hear say. I guess it doesn't matter to those who want Zimmerman to be found guilty whether he is or not.

 

[af12]

I just hope there is justice for everyone in this case despite the big circus it has become.

 

[All Else Failed]

proof of injury


http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

 

[Tangerine]

proof of injury


http://abcnews.go.com/images/US/ht_george_zimmerman_head_dm_120419_wmain.jpg

Yet NOT proof that that injury was caused by an aggressive act by Martin. GZ could just as easily fallen and cracked his head while trying to hold onto Martin who was trying to get away from him.

I don't think any rational people ever doubted that GZ sustained injuries. Hell, he had a broken nose, that's not really in dispute. But him having injuries doesn't really sway the story either direction in my opinion. We know they had physical contact with each other. What the jury will have to decide is how it started, the intent, and the events that ended up with a dead TM.

For the record, there's proof of another injury as well. The big gaping hole in the middle of Treyvon Martin's chest.

 

[clancy]

There were powder burns also to show he was shot at close range. It will be interesting to see what the forensic report offers as evidence.

 

[All Else Failed]

For the record, there's proof of another injury as well. The big gaping hole in the middle of Treyvon Martin's chest.

oh is there I almost forgot

 

[mclovin1]

Yet NOT proof that that injury was caused by an aggressive act by Martin. GZ could just as easily fallen and cracked his head while trying to hold onto Martin who was trying to get away from him.

I don't think any rational people ever doubted that GZ sustained injuries. Hell, he had a broken nose, that's not really in dispute. But him having injuries doesn't really sway the story either direction in my opinion. We know they had physical contact with each other. What the jury will have to decide is how it started, the intent, and the events that ended up with a dead TM.

For the record, there's proof of another injury as well. The big gaping hole in the middle of Treyvon Martin's chest.

You are going on pure emotion while ignoring the facts. Zimmerman's injuries are consistent with his story but if you claim he could be making it up maybe someone else shot Martin. You don't seem to believe what Zimmerman says so who knows who shot Martin.

 

[Tangerine]

You are going on pure emotion while ignoring the facts. Zimmerman's injuries are consistent with his story but if you claim he could be making it up maybe someone else shot Martin. You don't seem to believe what Zimmerman says so who knows who shot Martin.

I'm doing nothing BUT considering facts. An the fact is that the existance of an injury doesn't prove HOW it occurred. I think it's quite likely that GZ's head was cut open while the two of them were involved in a physical struggle. But it's extremely relevant to know HOW it happened. It's a very different thing if TM sucker-punched him, knocked him down and tried to crush his skull than if they were engaged in hand-to-hand struggle and both fell to ground in the process. That is all I am saying.

 

[Panacea]

I'm doing nothing BUT considering facts. An the fact is that the existance of an injury doesn't prove HOW it occurred. I think it's quite likely that GZ's head was cut open while the two of them were involved in a physical struggle. But it's extremely relevant to know HOW it happened. It's a very different thing if TM sucker-punched him, knocked him down and tried to crush his skull than if they were engaged in hand-to-hand struggle and both fell to ground in the process. That is all I am saying.

But when your only objective in having an opinion on this case is to try to prove everyone but you is a racist against white people liberal commie, some logic goes a little haywire.

 

[The Man]

I'm doing nothing BUT considering facts. An the fact is that the existance of an injury doesn't prove HOW it occurred. I think it's quite likely that GZ's head was cut open while the two of them were involved in a physical struggle. But it's extremely relevant to know HOW it happened. It's a very different thing if TM sucker-punched him, knocked him down and tried to crush his skull than if they were engaged in hand-to-hand struggle and both fell to ground in the process. That is all I am saying.

Yet NOT proof that that injury was caused by an aggressive act by Martin. GZ could just as easily fallen and cracked his head while trying to hold onto Martin who was trying to get away from him.

Do you realize how stupid you sound?
He had MULTIPLE Gashes and wounds to the back of his head.
How many times do you think he fell on the back of his head from a sucker punch or from falling back in a clench?

You sound as stupid here as you do repeatably calling me a liar in the other thread.

 

[mclovin1]

But here is the bottom line: It is up to the prosecution to prove Zimmerman wrong. GZ's claim is that is how it happened and as a defense doesn't have to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. What part of innocent until proven guilty do some people not get?

 

[mclovin1]

I'm doing nothing BUT considering facts. An the fact is that the existance of an injury doesn't prove HOW it occurred. I think it's quite likely that GZ's head was cut open while the two of them were involved in a physical struggle. But it's extremely relevant to know HOW it happened. It's a very different thing if TM sucker-punched him, knocked him down and tried to crush his skull than if they were engaged in hand-to-hand struggle and both fell to ground in the process. That is all I am saying.

I don't think any wounds on Martin from a physical struggle have been mentioned. It is clear who the agrressor was if this is the case. But maybe the autopsy report will show different. Either way GZ's story stands until proven otherwise by the prosecution.

 

[CityGirl]

Zimmerman's head wounds may have been a result of his hitting his head falling backwards when knocked to the ground. The presence of the wounds is in no way a confirmation that his head was being repeatedly bashed into the concrete. If a person has pinned someone to the ground in the manner that they have enough of an upper hand to maintain control of the head of the person beneath them, how does the person on the bottom manage to pull their weapon and shoot the person on top in the chest? If Martin were straddling Zimmerman such that Zimmerman's arms were free, what might you expect to see of Zimmerman's arms? Would their be defensive markings? With his torso straddled, would he have been able to reach around and grab his gun? In a struggle where the possessor of the weapon is on the bottom, what are the chances that only one shot would be fired and that that shot would be a chest shot? Were Zimmerman's arms pinned to his side, could he manage to reach his weapon and fire a shot into the chest with his arms still pinned? In what position would you expect to find the body of the person who was shot in the chest while atop the shooter on the bottom? How lucid are you when you have taken several hard blows to the head?

[video=youtube;aYBPXpmJUH8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYBPXpmJUH8[/video]

This video the guys go at it for about 30 sec before they are separated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TqLni7bo4A&feature=related
If Martin were agile enough to incapacitate Zimmerman to the point he couldn't fight back, couldn't get his clothes, ripped, wrinkled or stretched how did Zimmerman manage to get his weapon in hand? All we've done is speculate thus far...let's just speculate a little further, shall we?

 

[All Else Failed]

The presence of the wounds is in no way a confirmation that his head was being repeatedly bashed into the concrete.

But they also could be

If a person has pinned someone to the ground in the manner that they have enough of an upper hand to maintain control of the head of the person beneath them, how does the person on the bottom manage to pull their weapon and shoot the person on top in the chest?

What makes you think his arms weren't free? They could have been fully free to allow him to pull his handgun.

If Martin were straddling Zimmerman such that Zimmerman's arms were free, what might you expect to see of Zimmerman's arms? Would their be defensive markings?

No, not necessarily.

With his torso straddled, would he have been able to reach around and grab his gun?

Yes.

In a struggle where the possessor of the weapon is on the bottom, what are the chances that only one shot would be fired and that that shot would be a chest shot?

Um, pretty likely. I don't see your point here. If Trayvon was on top of him it wouldn't take that much effort to stick the muzzle of the gun into his chest and pull the trigger.

Were Zimmerman's arms pinned to his side, could he manage to reach his weapon and fire a shot into the chest with his arms still pinned?

His arms probably were not pinned. Most MMA fights don't result in arms being pinned, ffs.

In what position would you expect to find the body of the person who was shot in the chest while atop the shooter on the bottom?

who knows zimmerman would have to potentially push the body off of him after the shot. No one knows.

How lucid are you when you have taken several hard blows to the head?

Totally depends on the individual.

 

[clancy]

Unless someone has a video of what actually happened Zimmerman's story stands legally speaking. It doesn't matter about all the "what ifs" if there is no evidence contrary to what Zimmerman's story is....legally speaking. There was more than one cut on his head which shows more than one time being slammed into the concrete. The police report reflects a bloody nose and those wounds. Trayvon Martin was intending to do Zimmerman some serious harm, get over it.

The prosecutions case is beyond weak. This is probably why they didn't get the 1 million dollar bail amount they asked for. Why keep someone locked up for months on end with such a weak case.

 

[clancy]

I don't think any wounds on Martin from a physical struggle have been mentioned. It is clear who the agrressor was if this is the case. But maybe the autopsy report will show different. Either way GZ's story stands until proven otherwise by the prosecution.

+1 I don't think many people get that point.

 

[CityGirl]

All speculation aside, let me just say that I think there are occassions when gun owners act irresponsibly and I think this is just one such occassion. I think there are occassions when young people act irresponsibly and this may have been the case here, as well. The kid has a more physiological reason for being stupid in that the prefrontal cortex, that part of the brain where good judgement is exercised, doesn't reach maturation until around age 25. (Heck, Zimmerman's was barely mature.) That Zimmerman was likely acting in self defense may well be true by the time it came down to pulling the trigger, but I can't go with the flow and condone his actions leading up to the encounter that resulted in Martin's death. I support gun ownership and 2nd amendment rights to bear arms. As Joe the Meek has stated "Ultimately, since he [Zimmerman] was armed, he HAS to hold himself to a higher standard per his own actions and how his actions may affect others and their actions towards him. Carrying a gun may be a right, but it's also a huge responsibility." I'm sorry that others will take issue with what I think, but I think in this case, Zimmerman should serve some time as an example of what happens when you act irresponsibly with a weapon. I will always believe that the possession of a firearm gave Zimmerman a boldness he might not otherwise have possessed.