What if God died?

[Minor Axis]

Christ was the ultimate sacrifice, which is why sacrifices of animals are no longer needed. Sacrifice is an outward offering of our heart to God.

Did God ever demand animal sacrifices? Animals were (are?) sacrificed in a ritual to a god by religious people trying to gain favor. I must question the motives of any God who demands blood sacrifice. Besides Jesus was murdered. If anything it was self sacrifice, as no followers were really consulted and no favor was trying to be gained by the offending party. They were just removing a thorn (from their perspective).

But by any logic or love standard I don't see how that lets us off the hook for our personal behavior. It sounds like an example of stretched logic to try to make sense of an event and give it meaning, but then I'm not neutral in my feelings on the subject.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Did God ever demand animal sacrifices? Animals were (are?) sacrificed in a ritual to a god by religious people trying to gain favor. I must question the motives of any God who demands blood sacrifice. Besides Jesus was murdered. If anything it was self sacrifice, as no followers were really consulted and no favor was trying to be gained by the offending party. They were just removing a thorn (from their perspective).

But by any logic or love standard I don't see how that lets us off the hook for our personal behavior. It sounds like an example of stretched logic to try to make sense of an event and give it meaning, but then I'm not neutral in my feelings on the subject.

• Yes God asked for animal sacrifices.
• Jesus/God knew exactly what was going to happen as was his purpose: to be the holy sacrifice once and for all.
• We still have consequences for our behavior, but we are not condemned forever for it. That's the beauty of grace.

 

[Minor Axis]

• 
  Yes God asked for animal sacrifices.

• 
  
  Is that good or just how it is? Do you question or just accept the standard, because hey, it's God- he's never wrong.

 

[GraceAbounds]

I would not believe in God if I thought he was wrong.

 

[Minor Axis]

I would not believe in God if I thought he was wrong.

This means because you accept "God", you no longer do any independent thinking on your own when it comes to God's standard. Is'nt that blind faith? I'm sure you'll come back with "well I thought about God before I accepted him, and made my decision, so everything he says is right."

Blood sacrifice- an ancient ritual that ancient superstitious people used to perform because they thought it would make their superior being happy? Please... it's a standard not truly worthy of a great God.

 

[GraceAbounds]

This means because you accept "God", you no longer do any independent thinking on your own when it comes to God's standard. Is'nt that blind faith? I'm sure you'll come back with "well I thought about God before I accepted him, and made my decision, so everything he says is right."

Blood sacrifice- an ancient ritual that ancient superstitious people used to perform because they thought it would make their superior being happy? Please... it's a standard not truly worthy of a great God.

LOL :24:
Unfortunately, I still have a lot of independent thinking, which gets me in trouble constantly. I wish my thoughts could totally be His thoughts ... life would sure be easier.

 

[Obdurate]

I'm down with the G but I can't say I always agree with It or approve of animal sacrifice.

But besides that and a few things, we're tight. Shit, It comes over and plays PS3 occasionally. It said that MGS4 is the greatest game ever!

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Did God ever demand animal sacrifices? Animals were (are?) sacrificed in a ritual to a god by religious people trying to gain favor. I must question the motives of any God who demands blood sacrifice. Besides Jesus was murdered. If anything it was self sacrifice, as no followers were really consulted and no favor was trying to be gained by the offending party. They were just removing a thorn (from their perspective).

Judas caused that. Damn two-tongued snake in the grass money grabbing hugging and ass kissing bad breath hanging betrayer.

 

[Minor Axis]

LOL :24:
Unfortunately, I still have a lot of independent thinking, which gets me in trouble constantly. I wish my thoughts could totally be His thoughts ... life would sure be easier.

Accept I'm not talking about how you deal with everyday life. I'm talking about how you analyze God's standards. I think most moral people, set religion aside would consider blood sacrifice as a heathen practice unworthy of a higher standard.

 

[GraceAbounds]

If I thought human standards were all that worthy and correct I wouldn't bother to seek out God's will.

 

[ssl]

If God created everything, then he had to create sin, as well as himself.

The latter is impossible, while the former is improbable, due to God not being able to stand sin.



However, if God lied when he stated he created everything, then he is not perfect, and should not be trusted.

Of course, 'everything' in the above instances is probably taken out of context. It is probably more like God created the "everything seen around you" type of everything.

Going back to the former is improbable; if God cannot stand sin, why doth he allow it to exist?

Another thing: why do we have free will, if the Christian God and creationism is real? It is, to me, the dumbest thing to do.

"Hey Adam, you can eat everything, except from that tree over yonder; eating it's fruit unlocks good and evil thoughts."

Ok, the first thing, in human nature, is to go against authority; seriously, God would have known this, according to the book of Genesis, we were made of his own image. So, God knew before creating us, that we would fail. Which is even more doubt for God's perfection, because then it would be premeditated murder!

I know, I know, my mind must be wired wrong. Maybe those who believe can show me my logical flaws, because I know something is taken wrong or something.

:surrender

 

[Minor Axis]

If God created everything, then he had to create sin, as well as himself.

The latter is impossible, while the former is improbable, due to God not being able to stand sin.

If you believe in the whole Christian enchilada, sin is simply a test to prove we are worthy.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Another thing: why do we have free will, if the Christian God and creationism is real? It is, to me, the dumbest thing to do.

"Hey Adam, you can eat everything, except from that tree over yonder; eating it's fruit unlocks good and evil thoughts."

:surrender

Or more like: "Hey Adam, watch out for that tricksy Eve. She might tricks you to eat her forbidden fruit and make you sin your soul. Don't say I didn't warn you".

......"and don't forget, I'm the boss...the big G".

If you believe in the whole Christian enchilada, sin is simply a test to prove we are worthy.

So what??? God can't have a lil fun too?

 

[GraceAbounds]

if God cannot stand sin, why doth he allow it to exist?

Another thing: why do we have free will, if the Christian God and creationism is real? It is, to me, the dumbest thing to do.

"Hey Adam, you can eat everything, except from that tree over yonder; eating it's fruit unlocks good and evil thoughts."

Ok, the first thing, in human nature, is to go against authority; seriously, God would have known this, according to the book of Genesis, we were made of his own image. So, God knew before creating us, that we would fail.

Which love is real? Is love real when you impose your will or a magic potion on someone and force them to love you? Or is love real when someone choses by their own free will to love you?

God doesn't force people to love and obey. He doesn't guilt them into loving Him either as obvious by all the guilt and shame that most people have and turn to anything and anyone but God.

He loves us into loving Him and by doing so we can see what love really is according to God ... which is much better than how this world defines love. Then we can turn around and try as best as humanly possible (yes, we all fall short) to show that love to others.

.... and yes I went offtopic ... doh! :eek

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Which love is real? Is love real when you impose your will or a magic potion on someone and force them to love you? Or is love real when someone choses by their own free will to love you?

God doesn't force people to love and obey. He doesn't guilt them into loving Him either as obvious by all the guilt and shame that most people have and turn to anything and anyone but God.

He loves us into loving Him and by doing so we can see what love really is according to God ... which is much better than how this world defines love. Then we can turn around and try as best as humanly possible (yes, we all fall short) to show that love to others.

I have some bad news.

You'll never be able to convince the OTz devils.




:24:====:ninja=======

 

[Minor Axis]

God doesn't force people to love and obey. He doesn't guilt them into loving Him either as obvious by all the guilt and shame that most people have and turn to anything and anyone but God.

But the Christian view is that if you don't acknowledge him, you burn in hell for eternity. Sounds coercive to me... What's your take?

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Told you. he he.

 

[ssl]

But the Christian view is that if you don't acknowledge him, you burn in hell for eternity. Sounds coercive to me... What's your take?

Technically, if you do not choose him as your personal savior then you burn in hell for eternity. You can acknowledge his existence, and yet still refuse... although that would be an interesting lifestyle, indeed. :unsure:

But the point was raised, and despite any underlying insinuations, I am glad that Grace takes time to help us sinners realize new things about her beliefs. :thumbup

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

But the point was raised, and despite any underlying insinuations, I am glad that Grace takes time to help us sinners realize new things about her beliefs. :thumbup

Give Jackie her jacket. She's good. :nod:


I still think this place needs an exorcism.

 

[Minor Axis]

I'm looking forward to Grace's input. If our relationship with God boils down to love me or burn what kind of a relationship is that, really? I'd much prefer forgiveness for the error of our bad decisions or even our questions about God. You know some of us just don't have adequate info to make the leap.

edit: If our relationship boils down to acknowledge me or burn what kind of relationship is that, really?

edit II: If our relationship boils down to if you can't figure out I'm real, then burn what kind of relationship is that, really?