Vietnam War: Facts, Stats & Myths

[HisHoliness]

Your logic is flawed. The goal of the US was to stop the North Vietnamese from invading and occupying South Vietnam. So, in my opinion, the US has won.

I had purposely left out the goal on the US in my analysis, because the US never had one defined on paper. The Vietnam War is a misnomer. It's actually the Conflict in Vietnam - the difference being that in order to wage war, the US must declare war. A declaration of war, which includes the goals in full scope and conditions for ceasefire, was never made.

I believe their position was to "stop the spread of Communism," which is loose at best and Congress would never go for it (nor would many other people). Did this stop the spread of Communism? I think that topic is still open to debate as well. It also leaves open to interpretation the actual intentions of the our government at the time.

Communism seems to be alive and well, even though I personally believe every form of it in practical use has failed. That said, it only proves that you can fight people and you can fight countries, but you can't fight ideas.

 

[NightWarrior]

I had purposely left out the goal on the US in my analysis, because the US never had one defined on paper. The Vietnam War is a misnomer. It's actually the Conflict in Vietnam - the difference being that in order to wage war, the US must declare war. A declaration of war, which includes the goals in full scope and conditions for ceasefire, was never made.

I believe their position was to "stop the spread of Communism," which is loose at best and Congress would never go for it (nor would many other people). Did this stop the spread of Communism? I think that topic is still open to debate as well. It also leaves open to interpretation the actual intentions of the our government at the time.

Communism seems to be alive and well, even though I personally believe every form of it in practical use has failed. That said, it only proves that you can fight people and you can fight countries, but you can't fight ideas.

Which century are you living in man? It is alive in way less places then it was in 1972. So, in essence it did stop the spread, as it is in few places. See above. Spread means to multiply.

 

[HisHoliness]

I think you could make the argument that it did spread. Not in use as, but as a study of political theory, as I stated.

 

[Peter Parka]

Which century are you living in man? It is alive in way less places then it was in 1972. So, in essence it did stop the spread, as it is in few places. See above. Spread means to multiply.

Well the biggest fall of communism was the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Eastern block in the late 80s. I fail to see how that had anything to do with Vietnam whatsoever!

 

[HisHoliness]

Even if you wanted to talk about the decline of Communism in terms of use, there's no way determine causality. It's not like we pulled out of Vietnam and two months later Communism declined.

I am of the personal opinion that Communism is a flawed theory and destructs naturally because of it's inability to adapt technology. It's been proven time and time again that highly structured economic markets don't adapt quickly. This would be a more likely cause of the decline, rather than our "War."

EDIT: Peter beat me to it!

 

[NightWarrior]

Well the biggest fall of communism was the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Eastern block in the late 80s. I fail to see how that had anything to do with Vietnam whatsoever!

No one can make a blind man see. If this is the only communism you have seen fall in your lifetime, then you are blind to it all.

 

[Peter Parka]

No one can make a blind man see. If this is the only communism you have seen fall in your lifetime, then you are blind to it all.

:wtf:What are you talking about? When did I say this was the only Communism I've seen fail. I was just pointing out it was the biggest and most important communism collapse and I fail to see how you can argue differently.

 

[NightWarrior]

:wtf:What are you talking about? When did I say this was the only Communism I've seen fail. I was just pointing out it was the biggest and most important communism collapse and I fail to see how you can argue differently.

Who was arguing? What you stated doesn't make a point to anything I was saying.

 

[HisHoliness]

For many people, the fall of the USSR signifies the fall of Communism. I think that's why it's relevant. Until modern day China, the Soviets were the only Communist country with real political power. Now it seems China has stepped up.

 

[NightWarrior]

For many people, the fall of the USSR signifies the fall of Communism. I think that's why it's relevant. Until modern day China, the Soviets were the only Communist country with real political power. Now it seems China has stepped up.

Not really. I said the spread of communism has not happened. It has decreased. He then says, well "Well the biggest fall of communism was the collapse of the Soviet Union and the Eastern block in the late 80s." I fail to see how that point is relevant to what I said. Being Captain Obvious does not a point make.

 

[HisHoliness]

He's making a reference to time. The fall was in 1989, and we pulled out of Vietnam in 1976 (if memory serves me). His point is that one event did not precipitate the other.

 

[NightWarrior]

Just because it was 13 years later doesn't mean it wasn't a contributing factor. No one can prove otherwise.

 

[HisHoliness]

Yeah. But we can't determine causality either, like I said in an earlier post.

 

[NightWarrior]

So we can agree to disagree then.

 

[Peter Parka]

Just because it was 13 years later doesn't mean it wasn't a contributing factor. No one can prove otherwise.

You seriously think Vietnam was a contributing factor to the collapse of the USSR??? Care to provide me with any evidence for this?

 

[NightWarrior]

You seriously think Vietnam was a contributing factor to the collapse of the USSR??? Care to provide me with any evidence for this?

As soon as you provide me with evidence it didn't.

 

[Peter Parka]

The evidence that it wasn't is the fact that it was brought down by many contributing factors which are common knowledge and no mention at all of Vietnam there! Now how about your evidence?

 

[NightWarrior]

Your beginning to entertain me Peter. Nothing is common knowledge. You a super spy for some governing body that has all the answers?

 

[NightWarrior]

Look, I never said Vietnam stopped communism in Russia. It did stop the spread of communism in southeast Asia because had the US not intervened, then Northern Vietnam would have spread communism throughout that entire region a decade sooner. With that head start, it would be entirely communist. We know this to not be the case.

 

[Peter Parka]

Well China takes up most of SE Asia and is Communist so no, it really didn't!