The Secret History of Gun Control

[Joe the meek]

If you knew anything about the founding fathers they believed that the entire populace is the militia. See these quotes:
"Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man gainst his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American...[T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people."
"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ... and include all men capable of bearing arms."
Richard Henry Lee - Senator, First Congress
PATRICK HENRY
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

Technology has come a long way. I have a couple of muzzle loaders. There is only so much harm one can do in society with a muzzle loader before someone jumps your butt LMAO.

 

[Minor Axis]

Guns are often useful

How so? I have 3 guns but they have been locked in a closet for the last 2 decades. I'd disagree with you.

 

[Guyzerr]

Sorry if I'm stating the bleeding obvious here but given your statement, wouldn't making guns hard to get hold of (in line with statistics) reduce gun crime?

It works in your country....
It works in my country...

............... but for some strange reason it would never work in the USA.

 

[Guyzerr]

Yes. For the amount of guns owned in the US the amount of gun related deaths is extremely low.

I agree. You guys don't kill enough and have lots of room for improvement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

" There were 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries in the United States during 2000.[SUP][4][/SUP] The majority of gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides,[SUP][5][/SUP] with 17,352 (55.6%) of the total 31,224 firearm-related deaths in 2007 due to suicide, while 12,632 (40.5%) were homicide deaths.[SUP][6][/SUP] "

If the number of 12,632 is correct or even close it's only 34.6 murders per day. Not bad... not bad at all.


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir_percap-crime-murders-firearms-per-capita
" Murders with firearms (per capita) (most recent) by country "

USA = 0.0279271 per 1,000 people
Canada = 0.00502972 per 1,000 people
United Kingdom =0.00102579 per 1,000 people

 

[Alien Allen]

For it to work in the USA one would have to disarm EVERYBODY except law enforcement and military

Which is impossible without instituting a police state

Our country was unique. If I am not mistaken our republic is the longest surviving govt in history.

We had the revolution and the wild west. Like it or not it created a mind set. In this day and age of 24/7 news things might just be a bit skewed when comparing to years ago. I know NYC was a pretty nasty place to live back 100+ years ago.

As to gun laws if one likes them to be really strict then explain how one of the most dangerous places is Washington DC. Where they have some of the most restrictive laws in the country.

 

[All Else Failed]

How so? I have 3 guns but they have been locked in a closet for the last 2 decades. I'd disagree with you.

using your personal, anecdotal experience as a measurement, huh?

 

[Accountable]

It works in your country....
It works in my country...

............... but for some strange reason it would never work in the USA.

"work"?
Liberty is messy sometimes. I still prefer it.

 

[Peter Parka]

As to gun laws if one likes them to be really strict then explain how one of the most dangerous places is Washington DC. Where they have some of the most restrictive laws in the country.

Is there tight border controls in Washington DC? I'm guessing not. Is it really that difficult to bring guns from other states into Washington DC?

 

[porterjack]

"work"?
Liberty is messy sometimes. I still prefer it.

That should be psst tense

 

[Accountable]

That should be psst tense

Which part? I still prefer liberty.

 

[Joe the meek]

Is there tight border controls in Washington DC? I'm guessing not. Is it really that difficult to bring guns from other states into Washington DC?

You have it backwards. It's because people who FOLLOW the law don't have the guns.

 

[porterjack]

Which part? I still prefer liberty.

I would have thought "preferred" liberty, do you really think post 9-11 and global economic woes that you enjoy Liberty

 

[Minor Axis]

using your personal, anecdotal experience as a measurement, huh?

What's your measurement? Yes, guns are very useful, the preferred method for killing people. :smiley24:

 

[Joe the meek]

What's your measurement? Yes, guns are very useful, the preferred method for killing people. :smiley24:

The skill need to place a bullet at a 1,000 meters can't be comprehended by most people. Heck, shooting good groups and loading the ammo for well placed 600 meter targets can be obsessive as well LOL

Skeet shooting, trap shooting are a couple of fun past times that come to mind. Although I don't find the time to hunt like I use to, must hunters are better conservationist (sp?) than most non hunters I know (no one ever thinks about what our society in general is doing with the existing natural habitat).

When I left the house the other week to visit my father and took our son (leaving my wife alone), it was more than comforting knowing that she not only had the dogs at the home, but a couple of pump shotguns at her disposal along with some well placed sidearms.

Gun is a tool, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[All Else Failed]

What's your measurement? Yes, guns are very useful, the preferred method for killing people. :smiley24:

And saving lives


and providing food for people


and providing law enforcement with a necessary tool

 

[Minor Axis]

And saving lives

Only because most bad guys have guns.

and providing food for people

The vast majority don't live in survival mode, and my beef is only with hand guns and assault rifles.

and providing law enforcement with a necessary tool

I don't know what the latest statistic is, but my understanding English police at one point in time did not carry firearms.

BTW, for you and Joe, I'm not for banning guns, I'm for meaningful regulation which is something the NRA is dead set against. For AEF, just stop implying that our lives are somehow better because we have guns. In the big philosophical picture, there is no evidence of that.

 

[Joe the meek]

BTW, for you and Joe, I'm not for banning guns, I'm for meaningful regulation which is something the NRA is dead set against. For AEF, just stop implying that our lives are somehow better because we have guns. In the big philosophical picture, there is no evidence of that.

I happen to agree with you. I stopped my NRA membership because I was sick of their phone calls looking for money. Although I don't agree with everything the NRA does, I do understand why they do it, "give them and inch, they'll take a yard" mentality, which I can't blame them.
I sincerely believe their are too many idiots with guns in the US, but I guess that's our right. One reason about a comment I previously made about no cars being around during the 1700's (perhaps if there were, driving would be a right and not a privilege).

 

[All Else Failed]

Only because most bad guys have guns.

Okay and do you think that will go away if you ban them or something? Nope.

The vast majority don't live in survival mode, and my beef is only with hand guns and assault rifles.

You probably shouldn't have a problem with them. Also a lot of people depend on hunting for most of their meat supply, especially in rural/semi-rural areas.

I don't know what the latest statistic is, but my understanding English police at one point in time did not carry firearms.

BTW, for you and Joe, I'm not for banning guns, I'm for meaningful regulation which is something the NRA is dead set against. For AEF, just stop implying that our lives are somehow better because we have guns. In the big philosophical picture, there is no evidence of that.

We are better off because we can defend ourselves

 

[Joe the meek]

Okay and do you think that will go away if you ban them or something? Nope.

TRAINING

Currently anyone with a pulse who hasn't broken the law can buy a firearm. It's the little things you pick up on dealing with people, like handing them a semi auto sidearm and watching them NEVER check to see if it's loaded that makes you wonder.

 

[Joe the meek]

Today, in Cadwell County NC, a two year old girl picked up her fathers loaded handgun (which was sitting on a desk) and shot herself in the chest while the father was making breakfast. Girl is in the hospital, figuring she's going to make it if she made it this far (I hope)

Who the &*%$ leaves loaded guns around children????

Way too many idiots who can walk and breath that DON'T have a criminal record own guns.