Should people on welfare have to take mandatory drug tests?

[Peter Parka]

Not here they aren't. They are all separate and different. Get your facts straight before you try to debate on American policy.

I think people who are unemployed because they get handouts and don't think they have to work (i.e. most people on welfare) shouldn't get handouts. At the very minimum there should be drug testing and a time limit.

I think people who are unable to work because they are disabled should get benefits (from disability) and those people who lose their jobs for reasons other than their own negligence should get benefits (from unemployment).

Please don't presume to tell me what I think Peter.

What evidence do you base this on are are you just going along with the bullshit that Fox news and other similar so called news sources spew out?
Oh, and you contradict yourself, you say that welfare should be abolished and then in this post state what most supporters of welfare think, it should be available to people who need it through no fault of their own. Make up your mind.

 

[Francis]

If someones drug taking isn't affecting their work, I see no reason why it matters. If the're showing up for work drunk or stoned though, then a company should be able to just sack them on the spot, seems much more logical and fairer to me that testing everyone, that mentality is like saying "lets lock up everyone in the country so we make sure we lock up all the criminals and dont miss any of them."

But you are all missing the point of the OP..

Part of the problem with people on welfare is that most don't care, use drugs and on the government tax roll..

Hence they are my employee..

But.............. Here is my issue..

Many of them ( and I know one very close at hand ) that sucks off the system and couldn't care less to look for work. The more the system can pay out the more they go looking for money. Not only that but there is a culture here that people not only feel entitled to it but tell each other how to gain access to more and more funds from the system easily.. The system then goes after TAX paying people for more and more funding to support these leaches..

Now as far as drug use.. When these Welfare people go looking for work, would you HIRE a drugged up, drunk person who looks like shit and couldn't care less if they had a job because if they get one they may have to get up at 7 am and work when they never have had to get up before..

Every time they get refused it an added bonus, so showing up drugged up or drunk is a bonus as it guarantees an extension and proves they "tried" to get work.

Listen I know it's a crappy life for many of them, but they get caught in the system and unless some one pushes them out, they don't leave..

CHANGE is never easy for many people..

 

[Francis]

And when we talk about these people we do not include handicap or medically challenged people.. Truly disabled people have a right to this system.. No one asked them to be in that type of position but they suffer from the leaches that exploit the system that is overloaded with people who should not be on it..

 

[Peter Parka]

Part of the problem with people on welfare is that most don't care, use drugs and on the government tax roll..

Sorry, I stopped reading when I read this bullshit. Either produce some reliable evidence to support your claim (no, isolated cases of people you know like this, isn't evidence) or stop believing the propaganda crap you heard from Fox news or similar.

 

[skyblue]

How far are you going to take it if you go down this road anyway? Are you going to ban alcohol because "why should my tax pay for people to have that?" How about McDonalds, television ect ect? The first point where this idea fails anyway is the false, untrue negativity that its propaganda puts forward - assuming that most people on welfare are on it because the're lazy spongers which simply isn't true. Its seems to be along the lines that everyone on welfare shouldn't have any enjoyment in their life and should just be given the bare minimum to keep them alive.

ok peter, i left school at 16.....i've been unemployed in total 12 months in all of that time......3 months of it i didn't claim anything.......what i have i've worked hard for doing all sorts of shift patterns and long hours.....if i'm lucky my teams next game will be when i'm not at work because i work most week-ends....i had sky took out and got a free-view box because sky was working out too expensive,i rarely go to the pub these days because its cheaper to get cans in and drink at home......if i'm lucky i might get a few days away in this country every year

right,i know people who left school when i did,in the ensueing years they probably worked less than a year between them.....they all drive BMW's,audi's etc,they go out most friday and saturday nights,they have huge TV's with the full sky package and internet etc..most get at least 2 weeks in spain or turkey every year

i was brought up to think that if you want something you have to earn it,obviously you dont have to earn things these days,others will foolishly do that.....thing is,i have a work ethic,others dont.....so yes,i think the long term unemployed should be given just enough to survive.....and only for a set time.

 

[Peter Parka]

ok peter, i left school at 16.....i've been unemployed in total 12 months in all of that time......3 months of it i didn't claim anything.......what i have i've worked hard for doing all sorts of shift patterns and long hours.....if i'm lucky my teams next game will be when i'm not at work because i work most week-ends....i had sky took out and got a free-view box because sky was working out too expensive,i rarely go to the pub these days because its cheaper to get cans in and drink at home......if i'm lucky i might get a few days away in this country every year

right,i know people who left school when i did,in the ensueing years they probably worked less than a year between them.....they all drive BMW's,audi's etc,they go out most friday and saturday nights,they have huge TV's with the full sky package and internet etc..most get at least 2 weeks in spain or turkey every year

i was brought up to think that if you want something you have to earn it,obviously you dont have to earn things these days,others will foolishly do that.....thing is,i have a work ethic,others dont.....so yes,i think the long term unemployed should be given just enough to survive.....and only for a set time.

There's no need to punish people because your working conditions are crap. I would have more of an issue with your employer and the pay the government lets him get away with paying you than what the government gives people.
Oh, and I would say these people you know are most likely cheating because I'm on one of the higher rates of benefits and I cant afford to drive round in an Audi, have the full sky package, go out every Friday and Saturday night and afford 2 weeks in Spain or Turkey every week. I would suggest you grass them up rather than moaning about how unfair benefits are.

 

[Francis]

There's no need to punish people because your working conditions are crap. I would have more of an issue with your employer and the pay the government lets him get away with paying you than what the government gives people.
Oh, and I would say these people you know are most likely cheating because I'm on one of the higher rates of benefits and I cant afford to drive round in an Audi, have the full sky package, go out every Friday and Saturday night and afford 2 weeks in Spain or Turkey every week. I would suggest you grass them up rather than moaning about how unfair benefits are.

OK so tell me..

Do you think all the people working at McDonald's ( or equivalent job ) barely squeaking by in life, working hard and getting no enjoyment deserve less then someone on welfare ?

Your words.. No link required..

 

[Peter Parka]

OK so tell me..

Do you think all the people working at McDonald's ( or equivalent job ) barely squeaking by in life, working hard and getting no enjoyment deserve less then someone on welfare ?

Your words.. No link required..

No I dont but not because the Welfare system is unfair but because people working in McDonalds pay to a certain extent is unfair. There are too many companies with fat cat greedy bosses who have far more money than they could ever spend who are allowed to get away with squeezing as much work for as little pay possible out of their workers.

 

[Francis]

No I dont but not because the Welfare system is unfair but because people working in McDonalds pay to a certain extent is unfair. There are too many companies with fat cat greedy bosses who have far more money than they could ever spend who are allowed to get away with squeezing as much work for as little pay possible out of their workers.

Sure some CEOs make lots of money, but a part of the problem is many of us what things for real cheap..

Everyone wants a burger at McDonald's for sub $1.00 CAD and the cost of labour just cannot afford to pay high rates.. If we payed a bit more for stuff they could afford to pay more for employees..

By the way McDonald's Canada has been voted Top Employer in Canada in 2009. Only shows how unrelated the two are.

17 25 MCDONALD'S RESTAURANTS OF CANDADA, Toronto Restaurants 4,880 18.9
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...e/50-best-employers-in-canada/article1415568/

 

[Tim]

I personally know someone that owns a McDonalds here in the states. I'll admit that it's in a pretty good location and it sees it's share of customers. The owner clears $1.5 million a year. With 20 full time employees he could give each one of them a $25,000 year raise bringing them to about $60,000 a year and still clear a million.
But the owner doesn't have to do that. The market says that he can keep the $1.5 million and pay his employees a buck over minimum wage.

Dollar menu or not, McDonald franchises make very good money.

 

[Francis]

I personally know someone that owns a McDonalds here in the states. I'll admit that it's in a pretty good location and it sees it's share of customers. The owner clears $1.5 million a year. With 20 full time employees he could give each one of them a $25,000 year raise bringing them to about $60,000 a year and still clear a million.
But the owner doesn't have to do that. The market says that he can keep the $1.5 million and pay his employees a buck over minimum wage.

Dollar menu or not, McDonald franchises make very good money.

Not sure about that location but many areas have rules that state franchises must pay the same rate for ALL locations and not just the prime ones.

If one store clears 1.5 million with people at just above minimum wage and the average makes between $200,000 to $300,000 and all must pay the same pay rate scale, menu resales and we know they must all buy from McDonald's approved sources only, it could well put the lower traffic stores out of business fast if they increase one store and the others must follow..

 

[justmee]

thats all we need is to spend more money for drug testing everyone on welfare

 

[TheTinGirl]

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Should we regulate everyone's purchases?
I don't want to pay for some lady to drop 50 bucks on her nails, or a pricey pair of sneakers...
So...where is the line drawn?

 

[darkangel]

No it's an infringement on our rights. But then again there's a lot of drug addicts on welfare here and my tax dollars are paying for their habit which I just don't agree on...

 

[Guyzerr]

I disagree with you there, I dont believe that people who are unable to work through no fault of their own should have to live on the bare minimum with absolutely no pleasure in their lives. If you believe that, do you also believe they should have their TVs taken away because "why should tax be used to pay their TV license?" What about making a big list of food that they can or cannot eat depending on wether it's a luxory or not? I think it's very heartless to rule that if someone is sick and has no chance of ever going back to work, they shouldn't be allowed to have any fun in their lives. Its wrong to dictate what people should or shouldn't be allowed to do with their money and as Ed has pointed out, its a bit simplistic to say that it's your taxes paying for it, someone who has worked hard all their life and then is unemployed has paid into the system to support themself when they fall on hard times.
Personally I see far more money in taxes wasted on supporting an illegal war and bailing out banks who fucked up, anyway, than helping people who need money through no fault of their own.

Peter I'm not talking specifically about people that are unable to work. I'm talking about people that are unwilling to work. There's a big difference there. That said... I'm not against disabled, sick or healthy people having fun but I am against my tax $$ funding drug or alcohol related fun regardless of ones condition.

Like I said before, welfare is supposed to be a security blanket to cover the necessities of life for those truly in need on a short term basis and I see nothing wrong with that. Do not confuse it with disability income or disability insurance. The two issues are quite different.

 

[darkangel]

Do not confuse it with disability income or disability insurance. The two issues are quite different.

They sure are. Disability goes by what you paid into your social security and I believe that you should be able to do whatever you want with that money. Now welfare is our tax dollars supporting others. Big difference.

 

[Guyzerr]

No. There's a difference here. I don't believe welfare should exist. However I fully support disability and unemployment benefits.

But thanks for judging me before you had all the facts. :smiley24:

So lets say for shits and giggles that you had 4 kids at home and your husband cleaned out your bank account and left you high and dry. What would you do?

That's one of the main reasons welfare in North America was started.

 

[satinbutterfly]

So lets say for shits and giggles that you had 4 kids at home and your husband cleaned out your bank account and left you high and dry. What would you do?

That's one of the main reasons welfare in North America was started.

Well considering this was done to my mother with 3 children I can speak from experience and say she didn't go on welfare when that was done to her. She was making minimum wage. She did what she had to do. We moved in with my grandparents and we sold every single item we owned. That included every single toy, every single piece of furniture, pretty much anything that couldn't be packed in a single suitcase was sold. When we needed clothes for school we went to Goodwill. We at a lot of Hamburger Helper. We didn't play sports. We went without any luxury whatsoever. But we managed without depending on tax payer support.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

 

[Guyzerr]

Well considering this was done to my mother with 3 children I can speak from experience and say she didn't go on welfare when that was done to her. She was making minimum wage. She did what she had to do. We moved in with my grandparents and we sold every single item we owned. That included every single toy, every single piece of furniture, pretty much anything that couldn't be packed in a single suitcase was sold. When we needed clothes for school we went to Goodwill. We at a lot of Hamburger Helper. We didn't play sports. We went without any luxury whatsoever. But we managed without depending on tax payer support.

Where there is a will, there is a way.

That was your mothers choice. I won't comment if it was the right one or not because it's none of my business except to say that's exactly why the welfare system should be in place.

 

[Maulds]

Where there is a will, there is a way.

Making sacrifices, and not expecting a handout...? You're going to get laughed out of here.