Should people on welfare have to take mandatory drug tests?

[edgray]

Over here that's unemployment compensation.

Welfare is free money and food for people who do not work from those of us that do.

I do believe in drug testing for those on welfare. If they can afford to buy drugs they don't need it.

But personally I think welfare should be abolished all together and private charities should take over.

Ah right, there's no equivalent of that over here I don't think. You get back your social security contributions and that's it.

I don't agree with you though, if I was given, say, 50$ of welfare to live off, which I spent on food, and grew my own weed plants, why should I have the welfare taken off me?

Or in fact, if I spent 40$ on food an 10$ weed, what's the problem?

 

[satinbutterfly]

Ah right, there's no equivalent of that over here I don't think. You get back your social security contributions and that's it.

I don't agree with you though, if I was given, say, 50$ of welfare to live off, which I spent on food, and grew my own weed plants, why should I have the welfare taken off me?

Or in fact, if I spent 40$ on food an 10$ weed, what's the problem?

Because I'm paying for it. If I as a responsible tax payer have to pay for you to eat and keep a roof over your head then I should have every right, just like a parent would, to tell you what you can and can't spend that money on. If you have the money to spend on drugs and such then you should be taking less of my money.

 

[edgray]

Because I'm paying for it. If I as a responsible tax payer have to pay for you to eat and keep a roof over your head then I should have every right, just like a parent would, to tell you what you can and can't spend that money on. If you have the money to spend on drugs and such then you should be taking less of my money.

but you're not solely paying for it. If it were just you paying for it, directly out of your own pocket then I could see your gripe. However, the people on welfare may very have contributed before. Or they might be living in an area where there is zero work opportunity. And no, I don't believe you have the right to tell adults what they can and can't spend their money on. It's given to them, it becomes their responsibility. To think otherwise is seriously draconian.

And shame on you for the "parent" analogy! How patronising! Is that what you really think of a country's poor and needy? Hardly the milk of human kindness...

Also, your contributions remain the same no matter what they spend their money on or how much or how little they're given. The govt will always find ways to spend it. So really it makes no difference whatsoever.

 

[satinbutterfly]

but you're not solely paying for it. If it were just you paying for it, directly out of your own pocket then I could see your gripe. However, the people on welfare may very have contributed before. Or they might be living in an area where there is zero work opportunity. And no, I don't believe you have the right to tell adults what they can and can't spend their money on. It's given to them, it becomes their responsibility. To think otherwise is seriously draconian.

And shame on you for the "parent" analogy! How patronising! Is that what you really think of a country's poor and needy? Hardly the milk of human kindness...

Also, your contributions remain the same no matter what they spend their money on or how much or how little they're given. The govt will always find ways to spend it. So really it makes no difference whatsoever.

I don't believe welfare should even exist in the first place, but if it is going to exist it needs to be highly regulated and a pain in the ass to get so as to make those who are on it less likely to remain so for any length of time.

You know... here is what I don't understand. I didn't go to a great school. I didn't go to college. I had very little growing up. I live in the middle of no where and there are no jobs out there. And yet here I am with a job paying all my bills. If you want to be a responsible citizen it's very simple and easy to do so here. So I tend to have little or no respect for those who say they have no choice but to live off of those who choose to work for a living.

It makes a difference to me. If I have to put money into a system I don't believe in in the first place then I damn well want to make sure whoever is receiving that money isn't wasting it and that includes the government.

And yes... I am seriously draconian.

 

[edgray]

I don't believe welfare should even exist in the first place, but if it is going to exist it needs to be highly regulated and a pain in the ass to get so as to make those who are on it less likely to remain so for any length of time.

I do totally agree with you on this point. Personally, speaking as someone on benefits right now, I think it would much more productive for society for unemployed people to be put to work in their communities to earn their benefits. Unemployment is one of the most soul destroying things, and the longer you're unemployed, the harder it is to escape the trap. Putting people on welfare doesn't solve the problem at all.

You know... here is what I don't understand. I didn't go to a great school. I didn't go to college. I had very little growing up. I live in the middle of no where and there are no jobs out there. And yet here I am with a job paying all my bills. If you want to be a responsible citizen it's very simple and easy to do so here. So I tend to have little or no respect for those who say they have no choice but to live off of those who choose to work for a living.

Well you have to understand that not everyone has your mindset. Some people really don't stand a chance when they're growing up: could be drug addict parents, abuse, extreme poverty, bullying of all kinds. There's so many variables. I've known kids when growing up that really you can see their future, or lack of it, directly ahead of them, and it's not normally down to them being poor, but having god awful parents.

It makes a difference to me. If I have to put money into a system I don't believe in in the first place then I damn well want to make sure whoever is receiving that money isn't wasting it and that includes the government.

And yes... I am seriously draconian.

I can see. Remind me not to vote for you at the upcoming elections

 

[Minor Axis]

Huh, funny me, I thought they were on welfare for having babies and no jobs....

I think Dana is trying to say that some people end up on welfare because they were all ready drug addicts, the point being that it's not a simple situation.

The entire welfare debate boils down to should people in need get assistance or should they be allowed to live/die in the gutter? After all the ones with the survival instinct might actually takes steps to improve their situation once they hit bottom. And if they deserve assistance for how long? I don't believe in welfare as a way of life. There should be limits, there should be counciling and possibly job training. Even that costs money.

I have a much harder time when it comes to children. Should a child live in the gutter because of their no-count parents or should they recieve a fair shot at life? What about medical and food for them- do they deserve it or that is just their lot in life? If you have compassion for you fellow human beings, it's not an easy question to answer. (Hart, not directed at you.) Welfare is a case where society looks out for each other. I realize that the every-man-for-themselves people think this is a terrible idea mostly because it takes money out of their pockets for a cause they don't believe in.

Should the standard be "personal responsibility", "help others", or a blend of the two?

 

[edgray]

I think Dana is trying to say that some people end up on welfare because they were all ready drug addicts, the point being that it's not a simple situation.

The entire welfare debate boils down to should people in need get assistance or should they be allowed to live/die in the gutter? After all the ones with the survival instinct might actually takes steps to improve their situation once they hit bottom. And if they deserve assistance for how long? I don't believe in welfare as a way of life. There should be limits, there should be counciling and possibly job training. Even that costs money.

I have a much harder time when it comes to children. Should a child live in the gutter because of their no-count parents or should they recieve a fair shot at life? What about medical and food for them- do they deserve it or that is just their lot in life? If you have compassion for you fellow human beings, it's not an easy question to answer. (Hart, not directed at you.) Welfare is a case where society looks out for each other. I realize that the every-man-for-themselves people think this is a terrible idea mostly because it takes money out of their pockets for a cause they don't believe in.

Should the standard be "personal responsibility", "help others", or a blend of the two?

at the end of the day, welfare is a very small bandaid on the very big problem of unemployment. If we organised ourselves a little better without the chaos we live in now, dictated by the market-place, we could have this problem solved by now.

 

[Maulds]

Drug tests or not...doesn't matter what I think it will not happen. Are there any time constraints on how long one can collect welfare? Too many welfare generations here, one after the other.

 

[Guyzerr]

Welfare is food stamps. How does anyone score drugs with food stamps?

The OP is Canadian and in Canada we do not have food stamps. They get what they get in the form of a cheque.

To answer the OP's question.... Damn rights they should. I'm getting real tired of supporting slack asses. Welfare is supposed to be in place to assist when times are bad. It wasn't meant to be a life style but that's what it's become to many. Fuck 'em.

 

[Guyzerr]

at the end of the day, welfare is a very small bandaid on the very big problem of unemployment. If we organised ourselves a little better without the chaos we live in now, dictated by the market-place, we could have this problem solved by now.

It isn't that simple on this side of the pond. To many people here it's become a lifestyle of entitlement. They know every loophole in the system and take full advantage of it.

I personally know someone that's on welfare. Has been all her adult life and will probably end up being buried by the system. She considers her welfare cheque to be a " pay cheque". She also considered her second out of wedlock child to be a " raise in pay " because she got more. Her medical, dental, eye glasses, drugs etc. are covered 100%. Besides the welfare cheque she gets quarterly GST rebates and.... an income tax refund at the end of the year and.... monthly family allowance payments. Not a bad way to make a living if you can stand mooching off all us hard working suckers.

Not once has she received a pay cheque for so much as 1 hours worth of work. She is very smart and would succeed in anything she tried. The problem is she's too damn lazy to get off her arse and try to climb out of the hole.

 

[Francis]

No, I think they should legalise all drugs, anyway.

Even legalized, such as alcohol, airline pilots cannot have any in their system prior to flights..

Why could welfare people not be required to be drug free to pick up their money ( check ) ?


How will we make welfare easier next, direct deposit ( if not already in place )..

 

[Francis]

No no no no. Absolutely absurd. I'm collecting welfare right now and I smoke pot. So what? I've paid my contributions to social security, I am entitled to the money I receive, how I choose to spend it is my prerogative. Now if I had kids to feed, maybe that would be a different story.

What your collecting from what you have described is called Employment Insurance, not Welfare a completely different topic..

Employment Insurance ( Or Unemployment Insurance as it used to be called ) has a limited and defined term. It is based on your salary with a maximum pay out and limited weeks..

Welfare is given to those who fall off Employment Insurance or have disability issues and are not employable by the system. As long as you can prove disability or that you are unemployable ( due to child or other reason ) you can be on this system forever..

 

[edgray]

It isn't that simple on this side of the pond. To many people here it's become a lifestyle of entitlement. They know every loophole in the system and take full advantage of it.

I personally know someone that's on welfare. Has been all her adult life and will probably end up being buried by the system. She considers her welfare cheque to be a " pay cheque". She also considered her second out of wedlock child to be a " raise in pay " because she got more. Her medical, dental, eye glasses, drugs etc. are covered 100%. Besides the welfare cheque she gets quarterly GST rebates and.... an income tax refund at the end of the year and.... monthly family allowance payments. Not a bad way to make a living if you can stand mooching off all us hard working suckers.

Not once has she received a pay cheque for so much as 1 hours worth of work. She is very smart and would succeed in anything she tried. The problem is she's too damn lazy to get off her arse and try to climb out of the hole.

it's a mindset that people do fall into. I knew plenty of kids from my school that signed on for Income Support, which is the UK's version of welfare (in Blighty, interestingly, we just call the whole system "welfare") and everyone not working is entitled to, irrelevant of whether they've worked a day or not, and had absolutely no intention of getting a job. I feel sorry for them, they all tended to be from poorer households, with irresponsible parents. They never stood a chance. Generational mobility in all western nations is pretty poor: if you're born into a family on benefits, you'll most likely be on benefits for your life too. It's a sad situation.

I think, as I've stated before, that welfare should be abolished for all but those who literally cannot work (due to some disability or illness) and every other person should be working for their local community, for which they'll receive a modest cheque.

 

[edgray]

What your collecting from what you have described is called Employment Insurance, not Welfare a completely different topic..

Employment Insurance ( Or Unemployment Insurance as it used to be called ) has a limited and defined term. It is based on your salary with a maximum pay out and limited weeks..

Welfare is given to those who fall off Employment Insurance or have disability issues and are not employable by the system. As long as you can prove disability or that you are unemployable ( due to child or other reason ) you can be on this system forever..

yes I see, there's no direct equivalent in Spain, you get nothing except what you've contributed over here. They have something similar in Blighty called Income Support.

Still, I don't think drug testing will do much good. Drug abuse at that level of society is a symptom of poverty. These people need to be put into work to earn their welfare I think. That'd be far more productive.

 

[Peter Parka]

I don't believe welfare should even exist in the first place,

So you believe that someone who is too sick through no fault of their own, to work should have no money and be left to die in the gutter. What a lovely, compassionate person you are.

It isn't that simple on this side of the pond. To many people here it's become a lifestyle of entitlement. They know every loophole in the system and take full advantage of it.

I personally know someone that's on welfare. Has been all her adult life and will probably end up being buried by the system. She considers her welfare cheque to be a " pay cheque". She also considered her second out of wedlock child to be a " raise in pay " because she got more. Her medical, dental, eye glasses, drugs etc. are covered 100%. Besides the welfare cheque she gets quarterly GST rebates and.... an income tax refund at the end of the year and.... monthly family allowance payments. Not a bad way to make a living if you can stand mooching off all us hard working suckers.

Not once has she received a pay cheque for so much as 1 hours worth of work. She is very smart and would succeed in anything she tried. The problem is she's too damn lazy to get off her arse and try to climb out of the hole.

I guess that is more a failing in your welfare laws than anything, over here, unemployed people have to prove they are actively seeking work, evidence of interviews the've been to ect or they get their money cut

Even legalized, such as alcohol, airline pilots cannot have any in their system prior to flights..

Why could welfare people not be required to be drug free to pick up their money ( check ) ?


How will we make welfare easier next, direct deposit ( if not already in place )..

Just because I think drugs should be legalised dosen't mean I think people should be allowed to go to work stoned out of their mind. Same goes with the unemployed, I should hope they would get punished if they went to a job interview drunk or stoned but that dosent mean they shouldn't have the freedom to do what they want to their bodies in their free time.

 

[Guyzerr]

I guess that is more a failing in your welfare laws than anything, over here, unemployed people have to prove they are actively seeking work, evidence of interviews the've been to ect or they get their money cut

Some of the recipients here have to do the same thing. I don't know what the qualifier to it is but I do remember people coming into my office and asking me if I had any jobs available. When I said " no " they pulled out their government supplied " looking for work form " and asked me to date and sign it. The funny thing is how the people chose my business. It was an office environment and they came dressed like they were ready to muck out a hog barn. Reminded me of someone that really didn't want to find a job. Because I'm such a nice guy I actually used to sign the bloody thing so I suppose in the long run I was assisting them is some fashion.

 

[Peter Parka]

Some of the recipients here have to do the same thing. I don't know what the qualifier to it is but I do remember people coming into my office and asking me if I had any jobs available. When I said " no " they pulled out their government supplied " looking for work form " and asked me to date and sign it. The funny thing is how the people chose my business. It was an office environment and they came dressed like they were ready to muck out a hog barn. Reminded me of someone that really didn't want to find a job. Because I'm such a nice guy I actually used to sign the bloody thing so I suppose in the long run I was assisting them is some fashion.

Haha, staying on benefits is such a skill that its probably easier to get a job in the long run, reminds me of the job interview in Trainspotting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apCtRg6mOVk

 

[Guyzerr]

Just because I think drugs should be legalised dosen't mean I think people should be allowed to go to work stoned out of their mind. Same goes with the unemployed, I should hope they would get punished if they went to a job interview drunk or stoned but that dosent mean they shouldn't have the freedom to do what they want to their bodies in their free time.

I think you missed his point Peter. There's nothing wrong with doing what they please with their bodies but there is something wrong with using tax payers money to do it. Welfare was designed to assist folks that fell on hard times. It's supposed to be used for the necessities of life like food, clothing & shelter and wasn't intended for luxuries. If someone wants luxuries they should have to get off their ass and work for it just like any responsible citizen would.

 

[Abcinthia]

So you believe that someone who is too sick through no fault of their own, to work should have no money and be left to die in the gutter. What a lovely, compassionate person you are.



I guess that is more a failing in your welfare laws than anything, over here, unemployed people have to prove they are actively seeking work, evidence of interviews the've been to ect or they get their money cut



Just because I think drugs should be legalised dosen't mean I think people should be allowed to go to work stoned out of their mind. Same goes with the unemployed, I should hope they would get punished if they went to a job interview drunk or stoned but that dosent mean they shouldn't have the freedom to do what they want to their bodies in their free time.

I just wanted to highlight this because although it is true, people do get around this. My dad used to work training bus drivers and they were sent a load of people on Jobseekers from the Job Centre one day. There were a few who did try hard to get the job but others turned up drunk, some didn't even have driving liscences with them and others were just so rude becuase they "were only here to get their money".

And I hear stories like this all the time. So many people where I live go to interviews drunk and have the kind of attitude where they don't care about working, they only want money.

 

[Guyzerr]

Haha, staying on benefits is such a skill that its probably easier to get a job in the long run, reminds me of the job interview in Trainspotting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apCtRg6mOVk

I couldn't understand 1/2 of it because of the accident but what I could was funny and so true on many occasions.