Science Saved My Soul.....................

[sexysadie]

sorry Axis, like I tell so many others...your interpretation of God and the Bible is an OPINION. Nothing more. Tell me this, what makes you think your opinion is so validated when it is purely perspective? There will always be a RELEVANT counter argument to what you say. Study and unveil that relevance, buddy.

To you it may seem like an opinion, but to others, millions of others actually, it's a lot more than that. What gaul you have to look down on me for my beliefs.......shame on you!

 

[sexysadie]

That's ok. Don't use the brain you have, just let God or your religion tell you what to think and do. God does not like independent thinkers. Instead of evaluating for yourself, just be a good little rule follower because that is what impresses God the most. Oh yes, don't decide your morals, they impose those on you too.

That's absurb and you know it. How can you sit there and accuse God of not wanting us to use our individual brains when it was HE who created us with brains and gifted us with the abillity to use them? He wants us to question, He wants us to observe and to evaluate. Is it really so difficult to understand?

 

[Panacea]

That's absurb and you know it. How can you sit there and accuse God of not wanting us to use our individual brains when it was HE who created us with brains and gifted us with the abillity to use them? He wants us to question, He wants us to observe and to evaluate. Is it really so difficult to understand?

In fairness, he created us to be sinners and supposedly doesn't want us to do that...

 

[sexysadie]

In fairness, he created us to be sinners and supposedly doesn't want us to do that...

I dont' think that's why He created us, I think that we somehow fell into sin all on our own.

 

[Panacea]

I dont' think that's why He created us, I think that we somehow fell into sin all on our own.

He is all knowing and all powerful though, as I understand it? He obviously created humans with the ability to fall into sin, unless it was a mistake on his part.

 

[Minor Axis]

sorry Axis, like I tell so many others...1) your interpretation of God and the Bible is an OPINION. Nothing more. Tell me this, 2)what makes you think your opinion is so validated when it is purely perspective? There will always be a RELEVANT counter argument to what you say. Study and unveil that relevance, buddy.

1) I read it in a book, so it's the truth.
2) So if every person in this thread is expressing an opinion what validates any opinion? Due to the lack of available info, my arguments about religion are based on what is reasonable. And what opinion of mine do you take issue with? That I'm completely non-commital when it comes to the meaning of God? And after you tell me this, please explain why your opinion has more validity than mine.

That's absurb and you know it. How can you sit there and accuse God of not wanting us to use our individual brains when it was HE who created us with brains and gifted us with the abillity to use them? He wants us to question, He wants us to observe and to evaluate. Is it really so difficult to understand?

Mak2 asked me what made me think I was smarter than God and I was just responding to him. Just as relevant is what makes him or any theist believe in a God that is smarter than us- just because it's written in a book?

To believe that God wants us to use our brains, means that you first must believe in a specific God, with specific needs and requirements. The cornerstone of Christianity and most religions is believing what you have read and what you have been told by other people, most likely through indoctrination at an early age. If you were born and put on an island, do you think you'd develop Christianity as your religion? Highly unlikely. It's all about using our brains and questioning what is presented to us.

I dont' think that's why He created us, I think that we somehow fell into sin all on our own.

That's right, don't ever blame God, he has lightning bolts. Under your context, we fell into sin because God gave us the ability to choose so it is just as much his fault as it is ours.

 

[Diggin Deep]

I am honestly speechless regarding all of the misconceptions about God, why God became man (Jesus) and died for us, how we are suppose to puppets on a string with no ability to use our own minds and hearts, etc. I'm not saying that you should believe the way I do or what I believe in, that I'm right and you're wrong...This is just an observation, but it saddens me and really does break my heart.

Don't get me wrong...I understand the arguments and statements being made. And don't start heckling me...I know this a debate section. I just wonder where people get there information sometimes...even more so, what in someone's life - what happened to them that makes them hate even the idea of God and occasionally despise those who believe in Him.

 

[sexysadie]

He is all knowing and all powerful though, as I understand it? He obviously created humans with the ability to fall into sin, unless it was a mistake on his part.

People often believe that if God created everything that He must have created evil as well, however, evil is not a thing like a rock or a fish, you can't have a jar of evil. Evil has no existance on it's own, it just IS the absence of good. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all He created was good. One of the good things God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or reject good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.

 

[Panacea]

People often believe that if God created everything that He must have created evil as well, however, evil is not a thing like a rock or a fish, you can't have a jar of evil. Evil has no existance on it's own, it just IS the absence of good. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all He created was good. One of the good things God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or reject good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.

I think that's certainly a more thoughtful argument, but one could still assert that when god was designing the universe, his omniscience would have "let him in on" the future reality that evil would exist and did nothing to change the possibility of that outcome. There's nothing an all-knowing person can't know, so he would have known the absence of his good would be evil.

 

[sexysadie]

1) I read it in a book, so it's the truth.
2) So if every person in this thread is expressing an opinion what validates any opinion? Due to the lack of available info, my arguments about religion are based on what is reasonable. And what opinion of mine do you take issue with? That I'm completely non-commital when it comes to the meaning of God? And after you tell me this, please explain why your opinion has more validity than mine.



Mak2 asked me what made me think I was smarter than God and I was just responding to him. Just as relevant is what makes him or any theist believe in a God that is smarter than us- just because it's written in a book?

To believe that God wants us to use our brains, means that you first must believe in a specific God, with specific needs and requirements. The cornerstone of Christianity and most religioons is believing what you have read and what you have been told by other people, most likely through indoctrination at an early age. If you were born and put on an island, do you think you'd develop Christianity as your religion? Highly unlikely. It's all about using our brains and questioning what is presented to us.

It doesn't surprise me that everything you know about God is what you've read in a book but it may surprise you to know that what I know best about God, didn't come from a book, it came from God himself. So when I speak of God and my faith in Him, I'm not even thinking about the Bible, even though I trust in it deeply, what I'm thinking about is sooo much more than that...and that's what gives me the need and the desire to say it.

 

[Minor Axis]

I am honestly speechless regarding all of the misconceptions about God, why God became man (Jesus) and died for us, how we are suppose to puppets on a string with no ability to use our own minds and hearts, etc. I'm not saying that you should believe the way I do or what I believe in, that I'm right and you're wrong...This is just an observation, but it saddens me and really does break my heart.

Don't get me wrong...I understand the arguments and statements being made. And don't start heckling me...I know this a debate section. I just wonder where people get there information sometimes...even more so, what in someone's life - what happened to them that makes them hate even the idea of God and occasionally despise those who believe in Him.

It's a common perception of theists that those who question, hate God and his followers. I don't hate God and don't despise you. :smiley31:

It doesn't surprise me that everything you know about God is what you've read in a book but it may surprise you to know that what I know best about God, didn't come from a book, it came from God himself. So when I speak of God and my faith in Him, I'm not even thinking about the Bible, even though I trust in it deeply, what I'm thinking about is sooo much more than that...and that's what gives me the need and the desire to say it.

Sadie, I'm very happy for you. :smiley31:

Anyone else need a hug?

 

[sexysadie]

I think that's certainly a more thoughtful argument, but one could still assert that when god was designing the universe, his omniscience would have "let him in on" the future reality that evil would exist and did nothing to change the possibility of that outcome. There's nothing an all-knowing person can't know, so he would have known the absence of his good would be evil.

I agree, and like I said, that's the choice He's given us. The ability to use our minds is a huge responsibility, not one to be taken lightly.
I believe that God only knows what we'll do because He can see it in our hearts before we do it, true, God could choose to change our minds, but what would that mean to us as individuals? God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin. This would also mean that we would not have a free will. We would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right. Had God chosen to do this, there would be no meaningful relationships between Him and His creation.
Instead, God made Adam and Eve innocent but with the ability to choose good or evil. In doing so, they could respond to His love and trust Him or choose to do their own thing. They chose to do their own thing. Because we live in a real world where we can choose our actions but not their consequences, their sin affected those who came after them (us). Similarly, our decisions to sin have an impact on us, and those around us.
In a world where God made our decisions FOR us, God would be like a bad parent who enables a wayward child’s destructive behavior. There would be no consequences for one’s actions, and as a result no one would learn integrity, purity, honor, responsibility, or self-control. There would be no “good consequences” for right behavior, no “bad consequences” for wrong behavior. What would people become except more deviant and sinful?

 

[Panacea]

I agree, and like I said, that's the choice He's given us. The ability to use our minds is a huge responsibility, not one to be taken lightly.
I believe that God only knows what we'll do because He can see it in our hearts before we do it, true, God could choose to change our minds, but what would that mean to us as individuals? God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin. This would also mean that we would not have a free will. We would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right. Had God chosen to do this, there would be no meaningful relationships between Him and His creation.
Instead, God made Adam and Eve innocent but with the ability to choose good or evil. In doing so, they could respond to His love and trust Him or choose to do their own thing. They chose to do their own thing. Because we live in a real world where we can choose our actions but not their consequences, their sin affected those who came after them (us). Similarly, our decisions to sin have an impact on us, and those around us.
In a world where God made our decisions FOR us, God would be like a bad parent who enables a wayward child’s destructive behavior. There would be no consequences for one’s actions, and as a result no one would learn integrity, purity, honor, responsibility, or self-control. There would be no “good consequences” for right behavior, no “bad consequences” for wrong behavior. What would people become except more deviant and sinful?

In essence, god already has made our decisions for us, by setting the boundaries and the laws of the universe. He allowed evil and good and pudding to taste like pudding instead of something else. We can do no more than what was chosen in creation. The choices we have are limited to the decisions the supreme being allowed.

I say this all under the assumption a creator exists, for argument's sake.

 

[sexysadie]

It's a common perception of theists that those who question, hate God and his followers. I don't hate God and don't despise you. :smiley31:



Sadie, I'm very happy for you. :smiley31:

Anyone else need a hug?

Thank you, I needed that. :smiley31:

 

[Minor Axis]

I agree, and like I said, that's the choice He's given us. The ability to use our minds is a huge responsibility, not one to be taken lightly.
I believe that God only knows what we'll do because He can see it in our hearts before we do it, true, God could choose to change our minds, but what would that mean to us as individuals? God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin. This would also mean that we would not have a free will. We would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right. Had God chosen to do this, there would be no meaningful relationships between Him and His creation.
Instead, God made Adam and Eve innocent but with the ability to choose good or evil. In doing so, they could respond to His love and trust Him or choose to do their own thing. They chose to do their own thing. Because we live in a real world where we can choose our actions but not their consequences, their sin affected those who came after them (us). Similarly, our decisions to sin have an impact on us, and those around us.
In a world where God made our decisions FOR us, God would be like a bad parent who enables a wayward child’s destructive behavior. There would be no consequences for one’s actions, and as a result no one would learn integrity, purity, honor, responsibility, or self-control. There would be no “good consequences” for right behavior, no “bad consequences” for wrong behavior. What would people become except more deviant and sinful?

So God's choice was be ignorant, follow my rule, and be good, or eat from the tree of knowledge and not only will I toss you out of the garden but I'll condemn you and all of your offspring to the rough life. This is one of the most twisted, convoluted, mixed messages that comes from the Bible trying to describe why "we spend our lives suffering". That bitch Eve ruined it for everyone...

In essence, god already has made our decisions for us, by setting the boundaries and the laws of the universe. He allowed evil and good and pudding to taste like pudding instead of something else. We can do no more than what was chosen in creation. The choices we have are limited to the decisions the supreme being allowed.

I say this all under the assumption a creator exists, for argument's sake.

This is one of the difficult problems with the official explanation of good and evil. God allows evil, so it serves a purpose. I've heard God and the Devil sit down for tea now and then...

 

[sexysadie]

In essence, god already has made our decisions for us, by setting the boundaries and the laws of the universe. He allowed evil and good and pudding to taste like pudding instead of something else. We can do no more than what was chosen in creation. The choices we have are limited to the decisions the supreme being allowed.

I say this all under the assumption a creator exists, for argument's sake.

We can do no more than that which we allow ourselves to take responsibility for.....and on that note I'm heading out to enjoy the Canada Day celebrations with my daughter. Happy Canada Day all!

 

[Panacea]

So God's choice was be ignorant, follow my rule, and be good, or eat from the tree of knowledge and not only will I toss you out of the garden but I'll condemn you and all of your offspring to the rough life. This is one of the most twisted, convoluted, mixed messages that comes from the Bible trying to describe why "we spend our lives suffering". That bitch Eve ruined it for everyone...

Lol precisely :surrender

 

[Niamh]

So God's choice was be ignorant, follow my rule, and be good, or eat from the tree of knowledge and not only will I toss you out of the garden but I'll condemn you and all of your offspring to the rough life. This is one of the most twisted, convoluted, mixed messages that comes from the Bible trying to describe why "we spend our lives suffering". That bitch Eve ruined it for everyone...

I thought alot of religions had changed their minds on the Adam and Eve story and put it down to metaphor as it is so ridiculous?

 

[sexysadie]

So God's choice was be ignorant, follow my rule, and be good, or eat from the tree of knowledge and not only will I toss you out of the garden but I'll condemn you and all of your offspring to the rough life. This is one of the most twisted, convoluted, mixed messages that comes from the Bible trying to describe why "we spend our lives suffering". That bitch Eve ruined it for everyone...

lol...how do you think women feel?...lol the pain of childbirth and our monthy visitor is a constant reminder of Eve's choice on that faithful day in question. Go figure.

 

[Aries]

lol...how do you think women feel?...lol the pain of childbirth and our monthy visitor is a constant reminder of Eve's choice on that faithful day in question. Go figure.

I say that all the time! Her and that damn apple!