Science Saved My Soul.....................

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Tim

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Before you answer. Take a moment and do a little research on those two topics.
Find out when "In God we trust" was added to currency and why it was.
Do the same thing for the pledge of allegiance.

You might be shocked to learn that these things have been left out for MORE years than they have been on.
 
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Minor Axis

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Are you saying that you're perfect then? I consider myself a good person but I am far from perfect and therefore a sinner. If you ever lied or cheated or even got angry without merit, those things can make you a sinner. But if you're perfect, then I guess you're not a sinner.

It depends on how sin is defined One example:1. A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate. Sinning has to do with religious/moral law. Lawbreaker is violating laws decreed by society. However violating society's laws would still qualify as sinning as in it's not good to steal or kill. For laws of morality, we must determine who decreed them? If it is divine, it's not something that can be discussed with the creator so the rules would be rigid. And what is our documentation? Old scripts written by man. Poor documentation imo. If we are talking about rules made by man, they vary greatly based on culture and are subject to change. So to describe one's self as a sinner is more individual than you might think. To call someone a sinner must be framed within the society where it originated. Finally to recognize "sin" means what exactly? That God will punish you at some point, or it's simply an opportunity for self improvement? When it comes to religion, "sin" is used as a hammer as your failure before God's eyes with the threat of punishment to elicit the proper behavior.

For those who believe, and can remember, God gave his only son, so that man could be saved.

I was raised as a Christian, but as someone who questions Christian doctrine, not to cause trouble, but to try to understand I'd ask these questions:

Where is Jesus right now? I assume he is partying in heaven. Everyone dies, he had a violent death, not unlike millions of others. When viewed within the framework of human life, death is a tragedy, the ultimate end, a sacrifice. But when viewed in the spiritual context, eternity in Heaven, then your existence in Heaven carries most of the weight. Your life on earth is just a moment, maybe an unpleasant one. Your death takes you to the "good" place. So how much of a sacrifice was it?

God gave Jesus his son to us to slaughter because it would wash away our sins? I have never seen the point or the logic of this cornerstone of Christianity. And if this "sacrifice" cleansed the world, how long did the world remain sin free? Besides killing Jesus what exactly was accomplished?
 
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Niamh

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It depends on how sin is defined One example:1. A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate. Sinner has to do with religious/moral law. Lawbreaker is violating laws decreed by society. However violating society's laws would still qualify as sinning as in it's not good to steal or kill. For laws of morality, we must determine who decreed them? If it is divine, it's not something that can be discussed with the creator so the rules would be rigid. And what is our documentation? Old scripts written by man. Poor documentation imo. If we are talking about rules made by man, they vary greatly based on culture and are subject to change. So to describe one's self as a sinner is more individual than you might think. To call someone a sinner must be framed within the society where it originated. Finally to recognize "sin" means what exactly? That God will punish you at some point, or it's simply an opportunity for self improvement? When it comes to religion, "sin" is used as a hammer as your failure before God's eyes with the threat of punishment to elicit the proper behavior.



I was raised as a Christian, but as someone who questions Christian doctrine, not to cause trouble, but to try to understand I'd ask these questions:

Where is Jesus right now? I assume he is partying in heaven. Everyone dies, he had a violent death, not unlike millions of others. When viewed within the framework of human life, death is a tragedy, the ultimate end, a sacrifice. But when viewed in the spiritual context, eternity in Heaven, then your existence in Heaven carries most of the weight. Your life on earth is just a moment, maybe an unpleasant one. Your death takes you to the "good" place. So how much of a sacrifice was it?

God gave Jesus his son to us to slaughter because it would wash away our sins? I have never seen the point or the logic of this cornerstone of Christianity. And if this "sacrifice" cleansed the world, how long did the world remain sin free? Besides killing Jesus what exactly was accomplished?

I never understood the logic in this either
 

Panacea

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The whole Jesus as a pig for the slaughter thing reminds me very much of the vain and honestly stupid Greek Gods, in which I have always been super interested...There's very little perfection in passive aggressively creating humans to be fuck ups by your own standards, then having one son (why one?...people act as if God had fibroids or something and couldn't make a conception happen after Jesus) intended to be tortured to save their souls, then make them forever indebted to him afterward.

That's like...stereotypical Jewish mama in New York type behavior, not that of a perfect god :p
 

Minor Axis

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It show how creative our ancestors got trying to explain it all. However they came up short on the logic end of things, but faith is not about logic. ;)
 

Minor Axis

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Well then, Here in the Untied States, on the currency, which I assume you spend freely. It says in God we trust. Now How can you touch this ? Your wallet is full of little notes saying " In God we trust " most interesting.

Not the best comeback. ;) You asked Tim if he believed in God? I'll ask, do you believe in live and let live? Do you believe that those who do not follow your beliefs are condemned by your God to burn for eternity? How does your God feel about Islam?

No accusations here, just curious.
 

mak2

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Not the best comeback. ;) You asked Tim if he believed in God? I'll ask, do you believe in live and let live? Do you believe that those who do not follow your beliefs are condemned by your God to burn for eternity? How does your God feel about Islam?

No accusations here, just curious.

Yes, I beleive in live and let live, the way I understand Jesus, he would not want me to hate anyone. I do not know if God condems people to hell for being born in the wrong geographical area (differenet religion), I dont beleive a kind and forgiving would, and I beleive God is kind and forgiving. I do beleive if I decided to change my religion I would go to hell. I beleive my God is their(Moslem) God. I again dont know how he fells about them. I could not turn Moslem.
 

Minor Axis

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Yes, I beleive in live and let live, the way I understand Jesus, he would not want me to hate anyone. I do not know if God condems people to hell for being born in the wrong geographical area (differenet religion), I dont beleive a kind and forgiving would, and I beleive God is kind and forgiving. I do beleive if I decided to change my religion I would go to hell. I beleive my God is their(Moslem) God. I again dont know how he fells about them. I could not turn Moslem.

If God is as great and wise as they say he/she/it is, it would not care if we believe in it or not, would not care if we believed in Jesus or not, if we spend our lives trying to improve ourselves and seeking the truth of our existence. If there is a God eventually we will see it if we are ment to see it.
 
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mak2

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If God is as great and wise as they say he/she/it is, it would not care if we believe in it or not, if we spend our lives trying to improve ourselves and seeking the truth of our existence. If there is a God eventually we will see it.

How do you know what God should care about? He sees all, knows all, I dont think you do.God is the truth of our exsitance.
 

Minor Axis

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How do you know what God should care about? He sees all, knows all, I dont think you do.God is the truth of our exsitance.

Because my premise was a great and wise God that's why, not a petty God, who digs being on the throne with all that attention. That is not wise, that's narcissistic. If he views us as his children, and he wants us to figure out he's around, but is an absentee God, (absentee for all practical purposes) then he'd have to give those who question, who resist childhood indoctrination, a high five for taking the time to figure things out instead of following the crowd just to fit in.
 
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mak2

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Because my premise was a great and wise God that's why. Yeah if he is a petty God, then he digs being on the throne with all that attention. That is not wise, that's narcissistic. If he views us as his children, and he wants us to figure out he's around, but is an absentee God, then he'd have to give those who question, who resist childhood indoctrination, a high five for taking the time to figure things out instead of following the crowd to fit in.

I am not being a smartass here, I am just trying to point out you might be a bit presumptious here, telling God, who knows everything what is important. How did you get smarter than God?
 

Peter Parka

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I am not being a smartass here, I am just trying to point out you might be a bit presumptious here, telling God, who knows everything what is important. How did you get smarter than God?

How did you come to the conclusion that god, who very well may have been invented by man, is smarter than man?
 

mak2

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How did you come to the conclusion that god, who very well may have been invented by man, is smarter than man?


No, that is not a debate, you are twisting. I conclude that God is almighty by faith. Of coruse if man invented Him He would not be almighty, in fact, he would not be.
 

Peter Parka

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No, that is not a debate, you are twisting. I conclude that God is almighty by faith. Of coruse if man invented Him He would not be almighty, in fact, he would not be.


Wasn't twisting anything, was just asking a question purely with the intent to understand what you're saying. :) How do you know god is almighty?
 

mak2

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Wasn't twisting anything, was just asking a question purely with the intent to understand what you're saying. :) How do you know god is almighty?

I belive in God. I have faith God is almighty, created everything and knows when the sparrow falls. Therefore I cannot accept or aruge man invented the God I beleive in.
 

Peter Parka

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I belive in God. I have faith God is almighty, created everything and knows when the sparrow falls. Therefore I cannot accept or aruge man invented the God I beleive in.

That isn't really answering the question is it? How do you know that god is almighty?
 
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