Science Saved My Soul.....................
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Well, this is the debate section, isn't that what's supposed to happen in here?
Hug it out
:smiley31:
Diggin Deep
Active Member
Last I heard...this is not the place for hugs!
But since we are hugging - :smiley31:
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
Spiritualism and the afterlife have to do with things that are not material, at least things we can't firmly detect, but sense on a slightly conscious or subliminal level, born of a philosophical and spiritual need to make sense of our existence. Is this a one shot deal or is this an evolution, one of many steps in our journey of existence? We hope for the journey, but the best shot of finally knowing for sure is when we head over the falls.
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Spiritualism and the afterlife have to do with things that are not material, at least things we can't firmly detect, but sense on a slightly conscious or subliminal level, born of a philosophical and spiritual need to make sense of our existence. Is this a one shot deal or is this an evolution, one of many steps in our journey of existence? We hope for the journey, but the best shot of finally knowing for sure is when we head over the falls.
You are absolutely right in your observation that it's hope for an afterlife...
The thought of an afterlife was born out of grief and suffering over the loss of a loved one. It is easier to believe in the fantasy of an afterlife than to accept that your loved one is gone forever.
If you believe in evolution (I do) you need to accept at some point in our history we evolved to the point of questioning the world around us. We must have been a very confused yet easily amazed species. The sight of a lightning bolt must have evoked fear and awe. These events lead to primitive religions and rituals devoted to the unknown. Just imagine what this very primitive species thought when one of their clan died. The sorrow, emptiness and lost love needed to be comforted and stories of living on must have been their comfort.
Just look at history and see the differing ways we are suppose to carry on once we die... reincarnation, heaven, ghosts, spirit, etc... and many other ways conceivable.
This is why I don't believe in a soul or an afterlife. I understand why people believed the things they did and why they believed them. And as we learn about our world and why things are the way they are, these superstitions go the way of the dodo. We no longer believe that the gods send lightning bolts down from the clouds to show their disapproval in us. We no longer believe that the clouds are home to the gods. Yet people still believe in a god and an afterlife because those things cannot be shown to be false through science. So instead of ditching all superstitions, we cling to those that comfort us and only ditch the ones that were shown to be false... funny how that is...
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
nice post Tim
very well thought out
very well thought out
The only part of evolution that baffles me is... If we evolved from apes, then why are there still apes? Is nature still trying to get it right?
I'm not saying I believe one way or the other, but you do have to question some things. Have we evolved? Yes, of course we have. But from apes? Don't think so.
I'm not saying I believe one way or the other, but you do have to question some things. Have we evolved? Yes, of course we have. But from apes? Don't think so.
Peter Parka
Well-Known Member
On that point I also wonder, how do we know that fossils ect of creatures are what we evolved from? Couldn't they just be some apes that are now extinct?
You need to read up on it... but I'll try to help you understand...
The evolution of everything on earth did not happen in a straight line like you are describing.
Look at it more like a huge tree with many branches. So even though humans and apes have a common ancestor, we did not evolve from apes, we have a spit at that point with our own branch...
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
Many branches.
I realize our conversation is becoming circular, but I don't believe in a soul either, I hope.
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Peter Parka
Well-Known Member
Many branches.
.
See, this is what is called a good argument, it dosent prove that they are just extinct apes but it makes a hell of a lot more sense than a god exists if you think he does and pray to him. :thumbup
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
On the impact of religious views, I find really interesting the prospect that Neanderthals and Humans lived together (at the same time) and interbred. PBS/Nova link. Apparently we were close enough. I'm not sure, but I believe that Neanderthals are considered a close variation of humans. I won't speculate on the possibilities of a human and chimp having intercourse, but I don't think we are close enough were an egg of one species would be fertilized naturally.
Man-Made Evolution: You can see man-made evolution happening today- elephants tusks are growing shorter in the last 150 years due to poaching. It's not that long tusks get you so grow shorter tusks. The elephants with the naturally shorter tusks are the ones being left alone, so they live and breed and consequently their genes are becoming a large % of the elephant gene pool. See this Environmental Graffiti link.
Here is another good chart:
National Geographic Link.
The interesting discussion that comes out of the National Geo link is that if God did not exercise complete control over the evolutionary process (which it could have) then our development was completely random based on environmental pressure. The fine print of evolution is that species change to adapt but the change does not come first, it is after the fact. The variations that are best suited to survive in an environment, are the ones that do survive and prevail pushing the species forward. I admit that this was a difficult aspect of evolution for me to accept. My thinking was that if it was cold, then you'd grow more hair to deal with it. Animals do develop thicker coats to deal with harsh weather, but the ability is all ready within them. It's not something that they change after being exposed.
Man-Made Evolution: You can see man-made evolution happening today- elephants tusks are growing shorter in the last 150 years due to poaching. It's not that long tusks get you so grow shorter tusks. The elephants with the naturally shorter tusks are the ones being left alone, so they live and breed and consequently their genes are becoming a large % of the elephant gene pool. See this Environmental Graffiti link.
Here is another good chart:
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Back when I was a fundamentalist Christian I always wondered why man and ape were nearly identical in terms of genes. I mean if god created man to be above the beasts of the land, then why didn't he just make us unique? Every living thing on this earth is built on the exact same building blocks of life. Through gene mapping we can trace our roots back to the amoeba... Was god so limited that he couldn't make us unique, completely different than the beasts of the earth????
I'm not talking about faith in the fact that she exists doll, I mean faith in the fact that she loves you. How do you explain love?
I feel so so powerful....lol
Do ya think?
You will never know for sure what someone elses emotions are and I doubt anyone would dispute that, what you work off is how they treat you, what they do for you etc. Comparing having faith in someone elses emotions and having faith in someone that you've never seen and no one else in the world has seen, existing are two very different things.
No one else in the world has seen or experienced faith? Really? I beg to differ honey, I think you better do a little more research on the subject. I've seen it, I've felt it and I've experienced it.....and there are millions of others who have as well.
No. That's not what I said, maybe my post wasn't clear enough, I said nobody in the world has ever seen God but they have faith that he exists, which, imo is very different to having faith in an actual person that you know and deal with personally everyday.
I think that we were talking about love and the faith we have in IT. You never said anything about God.
your original post....You will never know for sure what someone elses emotions are and I doubt anyone would dispute that, what you work off is how they treat you, what they do for you etc. Comparing having faith in someone elses emotions and having faith in someone that you've never seen and no one else in the world has seen, existing are two very different things.
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