Science Saved My Soul.....................

[Panacea]

So to have complete faith in something makes it fact? I disagree, as I feel humans can have misplaced faith.

 

[sexysadie]

yes, without any proof, that's why it's called faith, like I said if there were proof then it wouldn't be called faith it would be fact

I guess you've got a point there. Yes, my belief in God is based on my faith, because I have no way of proving His existance to you.....but to me personally, His existance IS fact.

 

[sexysadie]

So to have complete faith in something makes it fact? I disagree, as I feel humans can have misplaced faith.

I'm not talking about scientific fact here doll, I'm talking about something a bit more personal than that. Is there somebody out there who loves you? Somebody you know for a fact loves you? Try proving it to those of us who don't know either of you. Prove just the love, not the actual person.....to have faith in you is to believe in that love, but there's no real way to prove it. Still.......to you it's a fact.

 

[Panacea]

I'm not talking about scientific fact here doll, I'm talking about something a bit more personal than that. Is there somebody out there who loves you? Somebody you know for a fact loves you? Try proving it to those of us who don't know either of you. Prove just the love, not the actual person.....to have faith in you is to believe in that love, but there's no real way to prove it. Still.......to you it's a fact.

I didn't misunderstand you, humans can have misplaced faith, which is why faith cannot be the sole method for discerning fact.

I can claim for a "fact" my boyfriend loves me but it doesn't make it true, he may not. We take a huge risk with faith based decision making, because we have no idea if we are right or not. We ignorantly assume we are right, just like religious faith.

The only difference is, humans tend to be slightly smarter about romantic faith and every day faith than religious faith. If we catch something that contradicts our romantic faith, we might break up with the person. If a human catches something that contradicts their religious faith, it's considered valiant of them to cling on even tighter to their religious faith...that's the equivalent of saying "my boyfriend hits me, but I still have faith he loves me!".

How I see it, anyway.

 

[Alien Allen]

love can be proved for the most part by stated words and deeds

I am on pretty sure footing that nobody has documentation that god spoke to them. And the rest as they say is faith. I call it blind faith.

To each their own but the facts don't support there being a god. Just speculation. IMO

 

[Minor Axis]

Faith is a complete trust or confidence in someone or something. Complete!! Meaning without a doubt.....to me that's fact.

The only fact is that you have faith.

I guess you've got a point there. Yes, my belief in God is based on my faith, because I have no way of proving His existance to you.....but to me personally, His existance IS fact.

You have destroyed the definition of "fact" in the way you are promoting your religious views. You have faith nothing more. It is a fact you believe. It is not a fact that God exists because you think he does.

 

[mak2]

No, faith is believing something without proof, if there was proof it would then be called fact.

Exactly, the only thing I think could destroy my faith woudl be proof there is a God.

 

[mak2]

I'm not talking about scientific fact here doll, I'm talking about something a bit more personal than that. Is there somebody out there who loves you? Somebody you know for a fact loves you? Try proving it to those of us who don't know either of you. Prove just the love, not the actual person.....to have faith in you is to believe in that love, but there's no real way to prove it. Still.......to you it's a fact.

Well, but then there is my exwife er wives.

 

[CityGirl]

While I reject the Christian faith in which I was raised, I don't begrudge believers their faith...mostly out of respect for my mother who is a very intelligent woman with a deep and abiding quiet faith. Who am I to attempt to topple the bulwark of faith that sustains her and many others? Quite frankly, in my view faith or lack thereof makes no difference in the end. I'm just passing through.

My questions began as a child My doubts were met with the doctrine of faith and stories of "Doubting Thomas". I always wondered how the stories of the Roman and Greek Gods were relegated to mythology when Bible stories that were just as incredible and sometimes more so, were presented as truth and fact. I also wondered why parents who desired for their children to believe in an unseen God would introduce to their children a Santa Claus, a tooth fairy and an Easter Bunny and go through all sorts of hoops to provide proof of the existence of these beings only to confess many years later it was all in fun but God is real and the Bible is proof.

Only a few years ago did I become aware of the existence of numerous stories of saviours throughout history

Adad of Assyria

Adonis, son of the virgin Io of Greece

Alcides of Thebes

Atys of Phrygia

Baal and Taut, "the only Begotten of God," of Phoenicia

Bali of Afghanistan

Beddru of Japan

Buddha Sakia of India

Cadmus of Greece

Crite of Chaldea

Deva Tat, and Sammonocadam of Siam

Divine Teacher of Plato

Fohi and Tien of China

Gentaut and Quexalcote of Mexico

Hesus of Eros, and Bremrillah, of the Druids

Hil and Feta of the Mandaites

Ischy of the Island of Formosa

Ixion and Quirnus of Rome

Holy One of Xaca

Indra of Tibet

Jao of Nepal

Krishna of Hindostan

Mikado of the Sintoos

Mohammed, or Mahomet, of Arabia

Odin of the Scandinavians

Prometheus of Caucasus

Salivahana of Bermuda

Thammuz of Syria

Thor, son of Odin, of the Gauls

Universal Monarch of the Sibyls

Wittoba of the Bilingonese

Xamolxis of Thrace

Zoar of the Bonzes

Zoroaster and Mithra of Persia

Zulis, or Zhule, also Osiris and Orus, of Egypt

At this point, it seems to me that the story of Christianity has been woven from many of the stories told of the "saviors" above. Common themes include virgin birth, performance of miracles, crucifixion and resurrection.

 

[Minor Axis]

Exactly, the only thing I think could destroy my faith woudl be proof there is a God.

Then you would not need faith (if that is what you are saying).

Only a few years ago did I become aware of the existence of numerous stories of saviours throughout history.....

At this point, it seems to me that the story of Christianity has been woven from many of the stories told of the "saviors" above. Common themes include virgin birth, performance of miracles, crucifixion and resurrection.

You are much more informed than I, but I have heard the stories about how Christianity is a compilation of what came before it. Things like the virgin birth and ressurection stand out. I remember watching a History Channel show and they specifically addressed a story featuring these occurrences that was documented well before the life of Jesus. It would be a mistake to stake out your hopes for the afterlife on this story as a sure thing.

 

[Panacea]

I remember finding out how many similarities there were in all of these tales, it literally blew apart my entire belief that the Christian religion as we know it could possibly be "right" and made me realize religion is probably just one giant social hoax lol. I only say that one because it's the one most in my frame of reference, for no other reason.

I always appreciate people who see this, and are open to wonder where the idea of god came from with a skeptical eye, but an individual's faith is not much my business or interest...I just would like to see faith spoken with inside voices

 

[BornReady]

Exactly, the only thing I think could destroy my faith woudl be proof there is a God.

:clap Well said.

Do Christians really think God wants them to know he exists? Think about it. Is this world the best God can do in convincing people he exists? No, if God existed and wanted his existence to be a fact then it would be a fact. It's as simple as that.

 

[alice in chains]

:clap Well said.

Do Christians really think God wants them to know he exists? Think about it. Is this world the best God can do in convincing people he exists? No, if God existed and wanted his existence to be a fact then it would be a fact. It's as simple as that.

It is not simple as that because we as humans completely twist the pure concept of God. Perhaps all your questioning is God's intention. Perhaps not...we'll never know.

The point is that asking questions of creation are pointless because it wastes times and there is no conclusion. Personally, I like to study understandin the current existing time. If we could decipher that, that would answer the questions with no answers. What difference in relevance was ten million years ago or the first measurable amount of history than this very second you read?

 

[Minor Axis]

:clap Well said.

Do Christians really think God wants them to know he exists? Think about it. Is this world the best God can do in convincing people he exists? No, if God existed and wanted his existence to be a fact then it would be a fact. It's as simple as that.

So how does that frame your view about the possibility of God?

 

[BornReady]

So how does that frame your view about the possibility of God?

I'm not far from your view actually. I think there is a possibility a god exists. But if someone starts assigning attributes to God then I recognize it's wishful thinking. The chances someone can dream up God's attributes and be right are very slim. Yeah, religious people claim it's revelation. But revelation lacks credibility because everyone has their own "revelation". Cultures project their own needs upon their god. If you're a war-like people, guess what? You got a war-like god. If you're in a patriarchal society then your god is male. Not hard to see what's going on there.

I think the probability of an afterlife is even less than the probability of a god. I don't think the probability is zero though. If there is an afterlife then I would guess materialism isn't a very good working hypothesis. When it comes right down to it, none of us really know the nature of our existence with 100% certainty. Who is to say the creators of The Matrix or The Thirteenth Floor couldn't be right. Descartes was wise when he said, "I think, therefore I am."

The above is what's possible. What do I believe? I'm a materialist (i.e. The Matrix is just a movie) and an atheist (i.e. I don't believe there are any gods).

 

[BornReady]

I'm sorry BR but I find it a little sad that you need absolute proof of something in order to believe that it exists.....I can't help but wonder what your love life is like...lol...sorry....it just slipped out

If you're asking do I have faith in my wife then you're comparing apples and oranges. For starters, I know my wife exists. I know a lot about her. I talk to her and she talks to me on a daily basis. Not so with God. As I said in my post, no one has given me any evidence God exists other than personal anecdotes that can't be verified. It's fine to believe in God if that makes you happy. But finding fault with me for not believing in your god is unreasonable.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Wow, so many people arguing against one person...........

 

[BornReady]

Oh, I think she likes it.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Oh, I think she likes it.

No, I think you and others like it :24:

 

[BornReady]

Well yeah, I like it too. This is my favorite section on OTZ. I rarely venture out of it.