Republican Judgement

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Alien Allen

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It does appear to me like it's today's politics- find any angle you can and run with it. The birther movement seems to be alive and well in certain corners.

WTF does this have to do with the conversation??

You guys do a fine job with the denigration too by the way. Dissing the Tea Party as Tea Baggers for example. And with it the lies and distortions. But lets not let the facts get in the way of a good pissing contest when people can't defend the indefensible.
 
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The Man

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Good grief it is Jimmy the Peanut Farmer all over again. Has nothing to do with race. It is all about the policies promoted by Obama

The old race card..they have played it so much it is worn and tattered...It no longer has value as we can see it before it before it leaves the hand.
 

Accountable

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Kansas GOP Officials Consider Removing Obama from Nov Ballot

Hmm, anyone care to speculate upon their reasons? You know what I'll say... either racially motivated or more the of "end justifies the means" BS the GOP rolls in. Does anyone really think if Obama was white, you'd be seeing this sort of approach?
You just can't bring yourself to call a black man President Obama, can you? Even while accusing others of the racism. It's as if you are trying to distract us from your own racist propensities.


Does anyone really think if Obama was white, you'd be seeing this sort of approach?
I really think that if Obama was white, you'd call him President Obama. :D
 

Minor Axis

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You just can't bring yourself to call a black man President Obama, can you? Even while accusing others of the racism. It's as if you are trying to distract us from your own racist propensities.


I really think that if Obama was white, you'd call him President Obama. :D

So much for what you think. You are really going to expend effort pursuing this? Be my guest, lol.
 

Minor Axis

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The GOP helps their friends (PS, It's not you and me):
“There is not conclusive evidence, however, to substantiate a clear relationship between the 65-year steady reduction in the top tax rates and economic growth,” concluded a report by the Congressional Research Service released Friday. “Analysis of such data suggests the reduction in the top tax rates have had little association with saving, investment, or productivity growth.”

The study delves into the last 65 years of U.S. tax policy pertaining to high earning Americans — including top marginal rates on income and capital gains taxes — and how it impacts their decision-making. The conclusion: cutting effective taxes on the rich doesn’t boost economic growth, but it does correlate with rising income inequality.

“Throughout the late-1940s and 1950s, the top marginal tax rate was typically above 90%; today it is 35%. Additionally, the top capital gains tax rate was 25% in the 1950s and 1960s, 35% in the 1970s; today it is 15%. The real GDP growth rate averaged 4.2% and real per capita GDP increased annually by 2.4% in the 1950s. In the 2000s, the average real GDP growth rate was 1.7% and real per capita GDP increased annually by less than 1%,” wrote Thomas L. Hungerford, CRS’ specialist in public finance and author of the report.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...ref=fpnewsfeed
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/P...andeconomy.pdf
 

Alien Allen

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wealthy envy is not healthy

I have asked before and don't recall an answer. Just what exactly is a fair amount a person should pay?

Is it also ok for people to pay nothing? If so explain why?
 

Minor Axis

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wealthy envy is not healthy

I have asked before and don't recall an answer. Just what exactly is a fair amount a person should pay?

Is it also ok for people to pay nothing? If so explain why?

There was no outcry when the economy was humming back in the 50-70's and top tax rates were at their highest. The "lower taxes to increase jobs" is a smoke screen designed to give the rich a break (as if they need it) and fool the stupid. Now as far as the bottom half who don't pay any federal income tax, they should pay something, however when you look at were wealth is centered in this country, the top 6%, the bottom 50% are relatively poor and you can't expect the bottom 50% to pay 50% of the tax revenue, but something substantially less. You know, they have to survive, room and board. Lets get rid of tax loop holes and start from scratch. As I type this I'm reminded of the Romney business man supporter who thinks the actual 2% is company pays in taxes is too high for Christ sake.
 

Tim

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wealthy envy is not healthy

I have asked before and don't recall an answer. Just what exactly is a fair amount a person should pay?

Is it also ok for people to pay nothing? If so explain why?

I don't think it's wealth envy. I know it isn't for me, never has been.

I think we keep asking the wrong questions when it comes to taxes and who pays how much.

Instead of asking if it's fair for 50% to have an effective federal tax rate of zero, shouldn't be asking why 50% of the population is in this situation?
For me, I would much rather address the systemic problems in the US when it comes to wealth inequality.
We can talk all day about how it was better in the 60's and 70's and if it was because higher incomes had higher percentage of taxes or not. But I would rather focus on the wages of the middle class and how they grew proportionately with the wealth of the nation throughout those years. Then sometime around 1970 wages went flat and never grew from there. Prices and inflation grew but not the paychecks of middle America. Why? What was the reason?
And why did the income of the CEO's and the most wealthy grow at a MUCH higher pace during this same period?

If wages of the middle class continued to grow matching the economy and the "rich" had their wealth grow along the same percentages, we wouldn't have the income gap we do today, we would have a very prosperous middle class who would be shouldering the burden of the tax load. There would be a very small percentage of working poor that are paying an effective federal tax rate of zero percent...

Am I off here?

So what was the cause of middle class paychecks to flat line since 1970 and what was the cause of the dramatic increase of wealth for the top 2%ish?
 

Accountable

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I think you're a bit off, yes. I think the more important question we should be asking is, why the hell are we letting Congress spend so far beyond their means, and why are we enabling them by letting them increase revenue?
 

Alien Allen

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So what was the cause of middle class paychecks to flat line since 1970 and what was the cause of the dramatic increase of wealth for the top 2%ish?

The dramatic increase in the wealth of the rich is not because of taxes.

My question is why do some continue to think the rich pay less in taxes today. In exchange for the lower rates the write offs were cut. The proof is that revenue did not drop when Reagans tax rate took effect. I keep saying it has been a shell game. The govt knows exactly what rate changes do and they always plan for a net result with no loss.

Another question is even if the Bush tax cuts had not taken place for the rich do you think we would have less debt? I don't buy it if one says yes. Neither party has showed any fiscal responsibility in years.
 

Minor Axis

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I think you're a bit off, yes. I think the more important question we should be asking is, why the hell are we letting Congress spend so far beyond their means, and why are we enabling them by letting them increase revenue?

To arrive in the middle you must fix the problem on both ends.
 

Minor Axis

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"The GOP, through its platform, its purity tests, pledges, and its emphasis on social issues that divide rather than unite, has shot itself in the foot, eaten said foot, and still managed to stampede to the edge of the precipice."

Newsweek: What the *#@% is wrong with Republicans?

Insightful article about how the GOP if not destroying, is neutering itself.

The article starts with the Todd Atkin affair and GOP's framing of womens' health issues, then profiles dissenting voices, female voices from within the GOP including Margaret Hoover, Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-Ak), and Senator Olympia Snowe (R-Me).

The cumulative effect of these episodes, combined with Democrats’ carefully crafted GOP “war on women” narrative, have boxed Republicans into a corner of stubborn self-defeat. Hackneyed and contrived as this “war” is, there’s a reason it has gained traction. “Because it’s true,” says Margaret Hoover, a leading voice in the young conservative movement, CNN contributor, gay-marriage advocate, and author of American Individualism—a call to arms for her great-grandfather Herbert Hoover’s rugged individualism tempered with a community spirit suitable for the millennial generation.

Opting for a vernacular expression of her frustration, Hoover queries: “What the (*#@%) is wrong? What has happened within the party infrastructure that has malfunctioned so desperately, so that this minority of representatives are in such positions of power that are so out of step with the majority of Republicans?”

There is something wrong with the Republican Party, the survival of which demands more than a few moments of self-examination and reflection. I wouldn’t use the word “stupid,” though it is tempting. Suicidal seems more apt. The GOP, through its platform, its purity tests, pledges, and its emphasis on social issues that divide rather than unite, has shot itself in the foot, eaten said foot, and still managed to stampede to the edge of the precipice. Is extinction in its DNA?
 
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Minor Axis

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It's hard to imagine such claptrap can be passed off as legitimate logic of us (regular people) being better off with more mega rich... Mega rich are a symptom of a system that is out of whack.

More Fat Cats, Please!

David Koch gave $100 million for cancer research at MIT. Bill Gates gave more than $28 billion to promote global health, saving 5.8 million lives in Africa alone. Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg gave $100 million to revitalize public education in New Jersey. Go to Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic, or any college and you’ll see libraries, dormitories, and a lot of buildings that were a result of the generosity of fat cats.

Amazon’s Jeff Bezos, Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, and Steve Jobs did not start out wealthy and actually added to income inequality, but we all benefit from their creative effort. They demonstrate that social mobility is a more important goal. Wealth is the ultimate panacea to poverty.
 

Alien Allen

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I would rather their money go to those causes than the govt funding the same.

There is no comparison in the accountability when it comes to private vs govt funding.

Govt pet projects that fail can still get their funds too often.

Private sector stuff loses credibility and donors who are smart take notice and can do something about continuing to donate.
 

Minor Axis

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I would rather their money go to those causes than the govt funding the same.

There is no comparison in the accountability when it comes to private vs govt funding.

Govt pet projects that fail can still get their funds too often.

Private sector stuff loses credibility and donors who are smart take notice and can do something about continuing to donate.

I don't believe private sector charitable donations are reliable enough to say run a school district.

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So what does the GOP think the problem is with food stamps? You are on your own slacker?

Atlantic Magazine (Jun2012): What Are Republicans Waging War on Food Stamps Now?

Hunger is high. Overpayments are low. The economy is weak, and food stamps are a strong stimulus. What exactly is the problem the GOP is trying to solve?

Here is a fact that should disturb everyone, regardless of their politics: Today, about one out of every seven Americans receives food stamps. That's a population of 45 million people -- roughly the size of Spain -- who rely on government help to feed themselves.

There are two ways to interpret this number. On the one hand, you could take it as evidence of just how crucial the social safety net has become in the wake of the Great Recession, as families are quite literally struggling to put food on the table. On the other, you could just read it as an example of government welfare run amok.

Guess which view is popular among conservatives these days.

Interesting article:
Pheonix Mayor Tries Food Stamps For a Week

As part of Hunger Awareness Month, Phoenix Mayor Greg Stanton chose to experience what life is like for the 1.1 million food stamp recipients in Arizona.

Last week, Stanton, a Democrat, took part in a community challenge to live on a food stamp budget -- just $4.16 to buy food per day, or about $29 per week for one person.

Stanton said he was barely able to meet nutritional needs and lost four pounds, according to Fox 10 News Phoenix. He skipped meals and relied on ramen noodles, pasta and coffee, according to KTAR.

"I’m facing a long, hungry day and an even longer night getting dinner on the table, which requires making EVERYTHING from scratch on this budget," Stanton wrote on Facebook. "It’s only for a week, so I’ve got a decent attitude. If I were doing this with no end in sight, I probably wouldn’t be so pleasant."

Stanton concluded on Facebook at the end of the challenge: "The best 'program' for any struggling family is a job that pays a living wage."

A record 46.7 million Americans used food stamps in June, according to government data. But hunger still is widespread. Nearly one in five Americans did not have enough money to pay for food at times last year, according to Gallup.
 
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Alien Allen

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What does school funding have to do with the discussion?

Next you will use the same ruse about charity funding roads.

Nice attempt to distract though
 
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