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Johnfromokc

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There are plenty of places to work besides Wal-Mart.

Really? You mean even after Wal-Mart has come in and bankrupted all the other small retailers and demanded that the local manufacturing plants relocate to China so Wal-Mart can "sell for less"?

Not that I don't think Wal-Mart has engaged in some questionable business practices.....

Really? Ya think?

Okay and that is your dad's situation, not everyone's.

Yeah, it's only the situation for millions of Americans. No biggie, right?

Point is, you don't HAVE TO work there.

Yeah, with all those options remaining after Wal-Mart kills the local competition, you can just get a passport and plane tickets to China or India and go to work there. Bunch of socialist whiners. :rolleyes:

I know this. I wasn't saying that at all.

That is exactly what you said. Backpeddling now?
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anathelia

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Okay and that is your dad's situation, not everyone's. I'm guessing the job isn't at Wal-Mart either.

Point is, you don't HAVE TO work there.




I know this. I wasn't saying that at all.

MY point is that some people DO have to work there. Some people have no other choice.

If we agree that walmart is a shitty company, why are we continuing to argue about this?
 

Accountable

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Proper government oversight would have never allowed any of these corporations to get too big to fail.
Absolutely! The key word being "Proper".

You have to dismiss just about everything he says until all of the large corporations are broken up into thousands of smaller companies that allow competition. Until that time, the corporations will dictate wages, benefits and just about everything else.
i just watched the founder of Home Depot say that they would never be able to do today what they did back then, that it would be impossible to start a new Home Depot now. I'm certain that at the same time, his lobbyists are up there in Washington fashioning new regulations to stifle new competition and enabling Home Depot & other big corporations.

I think I mentioned at the beginning of the bailout fad that Washington should develop an objective definition of "too big to fail" and force corporations to split into two or more companies once they approach that threshold. As you point out, it would allow and even encourage more competition.

Really? My dad just got a job offer today after looking for work constantly for the last three years.

Clearly, there are so many available jobs right now.

My statement was that companies get away with treating their employees like shit because there aren't many options out there. Obviously, walmart is not the only place in the country that's hiring, but not many people have better options, AEF. Be realistic and don't act like anyone can just walk down the street and get five job offers a day. It doesn't work that way.
There aren't that many options out there because the wrong regulations are in place which prevent entrepreneurs from gaining a foothold.
 

anathelia

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Again, I don't have a problem with capitalism. I don't have a problem with CEOs who make all kinds of money. They worked hard, they earned it. My issues are with the circle jerking going on between corporations and the government. There absolutely need to be regulations in place, you won't hear any argument from me on that point. But, corporations shouldn't be able to buy Washington, either. There needs to be a balance. And I don't think anyone disagrees with that point.
 

Accountable

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Again, I don't have a problem with capitalism. I don't have a problem with CEOs who make all kinds of money. They worked hard, they earned it. My issues are with the circle jerking going on between corporations and the government. There absolutely need to be regulations in place, you won't hear any argument from me on that point. But, corporations shouldn't be able to buy Washington, either. There needs to be a balance. And I don't think anyone disagrees with that point.
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All Else Failed

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Really? You mean even after Wal-Mart has come in and bankrupted all the other small retailers and demanded that the local manufacturing plants relocate to China so Wal-Mart can "sell for less"?

Yeah man every business ever doesn't exist anymore because of Wal-Mart. There are no small businesses left at all. Even businesses that are larger and not Wal-mart are totally gone. /sarcasm/


Really? Ya think?

Yeah, they have some shitty business practices. Don't work there.


Yeah, it's only the situation for millions of Americans. No biggie, right?

There are jobs everywhere if you're willing to swallow your pride a bit and work in something else for a while. I know some people who are working outside of their fields altogether to make money.


Yeah, with all those options remaining after Wal-Mart kills the local competition, you can just get a passport and plane tickets to China or India and go to work there. Bunch of socialist whiners.

Not calling them socialists, even though it is possible that some of them are. Anyways, not all local competition is killed off by Wal-Mart. That is simply absurd. I'll admit that it kills a good chunk of it off but not all.


That is exactly what you said. Backpeddling now?

Erm, what? No backpedaling just stating fact that job offers won't come at you right away. You have to search for them vigorously and want it. Been there done that have the t-shirt.
 

All Else Failed

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MY point is that some people DO have to work there. Some people have no other choice.

Sorry, I don't buy this.


Look, I AGREE that Wal-Mart is a shitty place. No argument there. But I find it laughable that some of you think that people have no choice whatsoever in the matter and MUST WORK THERE FOREVER THEY'RE CHAINED TO THE WALLS OH THE HUMANITY.
 

HK

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It's not as dramatic as that AEF, but in these current times, you can't just quit your job because it's shite.

At the very least, you have to look for another while you're still hired and just hope something comes along.

Because the choice is generally between staying with the company that treats you badly, or being unable to pay your rent. Most people would rather have a home and a shitty job than neither.
 

Johnfromokc

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Sorry, I don't buy this.

That is because your life experience is limited to your little corner of the world. The United States is 3,794,083 square miles with a population of 315,000,000 spread across thousands of communities.

Reckon there's a few things you might not understand?

Look, I AGREE that Wal-Mart is a shitty place. No argument there. But I find it laughable that some of you think that people have no choice whatsoever in the matter and MUST WORK THERE FOREVER THEY'RE CHAINED TO THE WALLS OH THE HUMANITY.

This makes it even more evident you don't know WTF you are talking about. How many of the 3.8 million square miles and thousands of communities have you visited? How many of the 315 million people that live here have you personally met?

Your experience in your little world does not mean you understand what is going on all over the nation.
 

anathelia

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Sorry, I don't buy this.


Look, I AGREE that Wal-Mart is a shitty place. No argument there. But I find it laughable that some of you think that people have no choice whatsoever in the matter and MUST WORK THERE FOREVER THEY'RE CHAINED TO THE WALLS OH THE HUMANITY.

You are impossible to discuss anything with. You're so overly dramatic and over-exaggerate things to take away from the real point here which is that companies get away with treating their employees like shit because they have no choice. IT IS NOT JUST WALMART and you know that. Why do you insist on mocking me when I'm trying to have a serious conversation? What country do you live in that you think that if I work for a shitty company like walmart or any other company that treats their employees like shit, that I can just up and leave my job? Because I can't. Whatever job I have I need to stick with because I don't live with mommy and daddy and I have bills to pay. Jesus. I am not saying that everyone works for a bad company. But there are people who work for bad companies who have no other choice because of the economy.

At this point, I'm done discussing with you, because you're going to continue to straw man my points.
 

All Else Failed

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That is because your life experience is limited to your little corner of the world. The United States is 3,794,083 square miles with a population of 315,000,000 spread across thousands of communities.

Reckon there's a few things you might not understand?

And you seemingly do?

This makes it even more evident you don't know WTF you are talking about. How many of the 3.8 million square miles and thousands of communities have you visited? How many of the 315 million people that live here have you personally met?

Your experience in your little world does not mean you understand what is going on all over the nation.

what a weird argument


"YOU HAVEN'T SEEN EVERY INCH OF THE US SO YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY HAVE AN OUTLOOK ON THIS SUBJECT"

Some areas of the US have been hit harder than others but I'm still not convinced that you're going to be stuck forever in a single job, or at least most of your life.


Don't "little world" me. I've been through plenty of jobs. A lot of them have been shit. I moved on and got other ones and at times it was hard, but no one is ever trapped in a single job. You can *always* change your situation.



You are impossible to discuss anything with. You're so overly dramatic and over-exaggerate things to take away from the real point here which is that companies get away with treating their employees like shit because they have no choice. IT IS NOT JUST WALMART and you know that. Why do you insist on mocking me when I'm trying to have a serious conversation? What country do you live in that you think that if I work for a shitty company like walmart or any other company that treats their employees like shit, that I can just up and leave my job? Because I can't. Whatever job I have I need to stick with because I don't live with mommy and daddy and I have bills to pay. Jesus. I am not saying that everyone works for a bad company. But there are people who work for bad companies who have no other choice because of the economy.

At this point, I'm done discussing with you, because you're going to continue to straw man my points.

I don't think I'm the one being overly dramatic. Some of you think that people HAVE TO work some place that is garbage, and for some reason they cannot leave or find another job. Wal-Mart doesn't force anyone to show up for work. Sure, times are tough, but you can't tell me that Wal-Mart is the *only* option for people. I fully understand that it is not just Wal-Mart, and I'm not mocking you.


that I can just up and leave my job? Because I can't.

YES YOU CAN. Why the defeatism? You can't tell me there is NOTHING else. That is actually impossible.

Do you work at Wal-Mart? Tell me why you cannot possibly leave your job for something else.


I don't live with mommy and daddy and I have bills to pay.

Well I don't live home either and I have plenty of bills, so.




Look, you guys may not like me but I actually want the best for you. I want to motivate you. This is why I'm saying these things. If you want to stay in a dead-end job that will make you miserable and grind your spirit down to dust, be my guest. But if you want to take a risk that may bring more happiness into your life then you need to look elsewhere. Even if the job pays a little less, it may be rewarding in less stress and happiness. Never think you're in a corner. There is always a way out of bad times. I realize that I am sounding like an inspirational speaker or something, but I don't think you should ever just settle for something if you are genuinely unhappy with it.
 
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Johnfromokc

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And you seemingly do?

I've traversed this planet 3 times and traveled many regions of the U.S. and I know better than to claim I know as much about it as you seem to think you know.

what a weird argument

It is an extremely logical argument - one you are having difficulty comprehending for some weird reason.

"YOU HAVEN'T SEEN EVERY INCH OF THE US SO YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY HAVE AN OUTLOOK ON THIS SUBJECT"

Yet another incorrect assumption on your part. As I stated above, what I have learned in my travels is that making blanket assumptions that "anyone can always change their situation" is a mistake of inexperience. I've not yet come close to seeing the entire world or even all 50 states and I've learned better than to make statements like you are making.

Some areas of the US have been hit harder than others but I'm still not convinced that you're going to be stuck forever in a single job, or at least most of your life.

Ever been in Appalachia and seen the dirt floor shacks in your own country? I have. Some of them eventually escape that poverty - but until you have lived it, you have no clue whatsoever the effort and mindset required to overcome it.

Don't "little world" me. I've been through plenty of jobs. A lot of them have been shit. I moved on and got other ones and at times it was hard, but no one is ever trapped in a single job. You can *always* change your situation.

Give us a brief resume of those "plenty" of jobs and the major moves you've made to acquire them. It might (or might not) add some credibility to your claims. Did you recieve any help from your parents at any time? Did you get kicked out of a foster home when you turned 18? Lets have some details.

Look, you guys may not like me but I actually want the best for you. I want to motivate you. This is why I'm saying these things. If you want to stay in a dead-end job that will make you miserable and grind your spirit down to dust, be my guest. But if you want to take a risk that may bring more happiness into your life then you need to look elsewhere. Even if the job pays a little less, it may be rewarding in less stress and happiness. Never think you're in a corner. There is always a way out of bad times. I realize that I am sounding like an inspirational speaker or something, but I don't think you should ever just settle for something if you are genuinely unhappy with it.

I do not dislike you. I take issue with your simplistic world view. I've also read a shitload of "Positive Thinking" books and listened to a boatload of motivational recordings that say things similar to what you are saying. Some are realistic, some are not.

Companies like Wal-Mart have been screwing over small communities ever since Sam Walton died and his entitled children took over and turned it into the Chinese Products Distribution Network.

Wal-Mart has screwed over manufacturers like Rubbermiad and taken all their products off Wal-Mart shelves because Rubbermaid refused to bow to Wal-Mart pressure to lower prices and relocate manufacturing plants to China. Rubbermaid was forced to succumb - and employees already making poverty level wages lost even those jobs.

Wal-Mart has done this and continues to do this in communities all over the nation. So in places like Winchester Virginia, finding a new job is as easy as rotating between $8 an hour jobs at the GE light bulb plant, the Wal-Mart warehouse or one of jobs at the remaining Rubbermaid plant.

And there's always the option to join the military and fight for the interests of the Military-Industrial Complex and maybe get lucky enough to avoid the infantry and acquire a skill employers might be willing to pay you for. That's exactly what I did - But unlike you, I will not sit here and tell people that they can "Always" change their situation if they weren't so defeatist in their thinking - because I walked a mile in their shoes and learned it's not always as easy as the modern success literature industry claims.
 

HK

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Why is it so difficult, AEF, for you to understand that a lot of people cannot afford to just walk out of their job?
 

All Else Failed

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Why is it so difficult, AEF, for you to understand that a lot of people cannot afford to just walk out of their job?

It is difficult, but not impossible.


I've traversed this planet 3 times and traveled many regions of the U.S. and I know better than to claim I know as much about it as you seem to think you know.

Provides no real insight.



Yet another incorrect assumption on your part. As I stated above, what I have learned in my travels is that making blanket assumptions that "anyone can always change their situation" is a mistake of inexperience. I've not yet come close to seeing the entire world or even all 50 states and I've learned better than to make statements like you are making.

Unless you live in some third world shit hole, "You can always change your situation" is a fact. No one said it would be easy or changes would come quick. It is a process. You are never stuck in a situation if you have the will to change it. EVERYTHING IS A CHOICE.



Ever been in Appalachia and seen the dirt floor shacks in your own country? I have. Some of them eventually escape that poverty - but until you have lived it, you have no clue whatsoever the effort and mindset required to overcome it.

Third world-like shit hole.

We're talking about civilization here.

Give us a brief resume of those "plenty" of jobs and the major moves you've made to acquire them. It might (or might not) add some credibility to your claims. Did you recieve any help from your parents at any time? Did you get kicked out of a foster home when you turned 18? Lets have some details.

I've worked in construction, carpentry, some welding, the usual crap jobs one does when they are a teenager, delivery, hauling and even student teaching.

idk what you want I moved out when I had enough money (20) and have taken care of myself.



3 of those were gotten when the economy tanked. I just showed up (All of them were small business, btw) they saw my resume and I was hired.


Companies like Wal-Mart have been screwing over small communities ever since Sam Walton died and his entitled children took over and turned it into the Chinese Products Distribution Network.

I agree. I dislike most of what Wal-Mart is about.


And there's always the option to join the military and fight for the interests of the Military-Industrial Complex and maybe get lucky enough to avoid the infantry and acquire a skill employers might be willing to pay you for.

You can totally avoid any fighting roll actually. The vast majority of jobs in most of the branches are non-combat roles. Fuck, join the Navy or Coast guard if you want 100% insurance of not fighting and getting a trade.


That's exactly what I did - But unlike you, I will not sit here and tell people that they can "Always" change their situation if they weren't so defeatist in their thinking - because I walked a mile in their shoes and learned it's not always as easy as the modern success literature industry claims.


I just disagree. I will concede that there are some areas of the US that may be more difficult to get anything better (basically rural places) but overall, i think anyone can break out of their 9-5 depressing job and attain a better life if they pool their resources and start from the bottom and work their way up.


If you want to take beef for our current situation, take it up with the very idea of the techno-mania that is modernity.
 
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HK

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It is difficult, but not impossible.

That doesn't answer my question.


I don't enjoy my job very much. I'm lucky in that it could be a lot worse though. But I cannot quit it. If it got far worse tomorrow, I would not be able to just walk out. I have bills to pay. If I don't pay them, I could end up in huge, huge trouble. Sure, technically I have the 'choice' to leave. But that choice is between putting up with shit, or not being able to afford to live in my home any longer.
 

All Else Failed

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I don't enjoy my job very much. I'm lucky in that it could be a lot worse though. But I cannot quit it. If it got far worse tomorrow, I would not be able to just walk out. I have bills to pay. If I don't pay them, I could end up in huge, huge trouble. Sure, technically I have the 'choice' to leave. But that choice is between putting up with shit, or not being able to afford to live in my home any longer.

I suppose a big misconception of my argument is that I'm talking about just "walking out" from your job with no planning or forethought. I do not advocate or suggest that. I do suggest, that if you are miserable in your current line of work, do research and planning for a new job/career path while at you current job, and if possible, plan to leave your job when you are ready for a new venture when you are ready and have all of your "ducks in a row".
 
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