New Jersey to Ban Death Penalty

[Crusty Lugholes]

Death Penalty has Cost New Jersey Taxpayers $253 Million
A New Jersey Policy Perspectives report concluded that the state's death penalty has cost taxpayers $253 million since 1983, a figure that is over and above the costs that would have been incurred had the state utilized a sentence of life without parole instead of death. The study examined the costs of death penalty cases to prosecutor offices, public defender offices, courts, and correctional facilities. The report's authors said that the cost estimate is "very conservative" because other significant costs uniquely associated with the death penalty were not available. "From a strictly financial perspective, it is hard to reach a conclusion other than this: New Jersey taxpayers over the last 23 years have paid more than a quarter billion dollars on a capital punishment system that has executed no one," the report concluded. Since 1982, there have been 197 capital trials in New Jersey and 60 death sentences, of which 50 were reversed. There have been no executions, and 10 men are housed on the state's death row. Michael Murphy, former Morris County prosecutor, remarked: "If you were to ask me how $11 million a year could best protect the people of New Jersey, I would tell you by giving the law enforcement community more resources. I'm not interested in hypotheticals or abstractions, I want the tools for law enforcement to do their job, and $11 million can buy a lot of tools."

I'm so glad to see someone point out how much the death penalty costs the tax payers. Lawyers are getting wealthy collecting tax dollars on all of the useless appeals.
Life with no chance of parole should be just that. Life should mean for the rest of the convicted persons natural life! NO parole, NO out for good behavior, or any of the other BS you read about when they become a repeat offender. (Which is more often than not. )

Plus it would be much much cheaper than footing the bill for all the appeals processes that go with a death sentence.

I've often wondered why it is that only America has so many incredibly violent and horrific criminals? Is it because of our freedom? (You're free to be a creepy assed sadistic murdering rapist or whatever. )

Or is it that we just manage to capture and prosecute them more?

Whatever the reason, one thing is for sure, The death penalty is NOT a deterrent to violent crimes. Which is the whole reason why states reenacted death penalty laws to begin with. The belief that the death penalty would minimize violent crime. Obviously, it doesn't.

 

[All Else Failed]

I always thought it rather disgusting to break down whether a human should live or not based on how cost effective it was. meh.

 

[IntruderLS1]

Ok, I stand corrected there, that wasn't the point I was trying to make though. I was pointing out that the death penalty dosen't prevent murders which is precisely what the figures you quotes back up.

It seems to me that the two countries on the bottom of that list, are also the two countries who's populations have the highest faith that the penalty will be dealt swiftly.

How does that back up what you were saying again?

 

[Ria]

I didn't give in, I'm sick and tired of responding to the same arguments 15 times in a row.

Firstly, they are not arguements, it is just that there are many people who just happen to have the same view. In a debate, people cannot be 'told' they are wrong or should not have the same view as another - that is the whole point of debate - to express in a calm manner, their views. No point getting into debate if the heat gets too much - not good.

Debates take as long as they take.

when did they "get my goat"? Like i said before, all of you are just stating the same thing over and over again, its not worth responding to the same thing dozens of times. Come up with something new if you want to continue. Don't get so fussy.

Do you see now, what I said above?

I can't really help repeating myself when all everyone does here is say the same buzz-words and various clone-statements that other have said already.

I always thought it rather disgusting to break down whether a human should live or not based on how cost effective it was. meh.

I always thought it rather disgusting/sick, that a murderer, rapist, paedo etc, breaks down whether victims should live or not, costing massive devastation to many.

 

[Peter Parka]

It seems to me that the two countries on the bottom of that list, are also the two countries who's populations have the highest faith that the penalty will be dealt swiftly.

How does that back up what you were saying again?

Think you'll find there are a lot more than 62 countries in the world. The countries at the bottom of that list don't have the lowest murder rate in the world, they have the 61st and 62nd highest.

You look at the countries on that list and some have the death penalty, some don't, which goes to show that having the death penalty really isn't a factor in reducing the murder rate.

 

[boxer810]

when did they "get my goat"? Like i said before, all of you are just stating the same thing over and over again, its not worth responding to the same thing dozens of times. Come up with something new if you want to continue. Don't get so fussy.

Don't get so fussy?? It's a little hard not to! When was the last time you risked your life just walking in the front door of your work? When was the last time you risked your life to protect others? I take this particular subject personally, I'm sorry! But you're right, I guess there isn't anything new to say to you, because you really don't listen to others anyhow. It's all about shoving your opinion down other peoples throats and if they disagree you get angry and start throwing out petty digs at them!

 

[debbie t]

well i can empathise with boxer and see her point of view even if i dont agree.
her arguments are at least based on personal experience and knowledge

and wouldnt it be a boring world if we all agreed about everything

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

I am going to tell a disturbing story, so brace yourselves.

Picture a blonde haired blue eyed 3 maybe 4 year old little girl.
Imagine, the mother and step father taking turns beating her with leather belts,
throwing her on the tile floor, stuffing her little head under the coushins of the sofa, and sitting on them, trying to suffocate her.
Giving her childrens tylenol until she overdoses, then placing her in the shed for a period until a solution can be determined. Then head to the local Wal-Mart and purchase a plastic tub, the kind you put toys and stuff you want to put away in a closet someplace, wrap your own daughter who has been dead, in you storage shed for a couple of days in a plastic bag, put her into the plastic tote, duct tape it closed, then toss the tote into the bay.

Now look at this

You say th death penalty is revenge? Your God Damned right it is, and it is too kind. If you ask me the mother and step father should have never made it to jail.

What I described above actually happened, her body washed up in a plastic tote in Galveston bay. Go read articles on "Baby Grace" and let me know how you feel about it.

That is why I endorse the death penalty. Because some folks have earned it.

 

[boxer810]

I am going to tell a disturbing story, so brace yourselves.

Picture a blonde haired blue eyed 3 maybe 4 year old little girl.
Imagine, the mother and step father taking turns beating her with leather belts,
throwing her on the tile floor, stuffing her little head under the coushins of the sofa, and sitting on them, trying to suffocate her.
Giving her childrens tylenol until she overdoses, then placing her in the shed for a period until a solution can be determined. Then head to the local Wal-Mart and purchase a plastic tub, the kind you put toys and stuff you want to put away in a closet someplace, wrap your own daughter who has been dead, in you storage shed for a couple of days in a plastic bag, put her into the plastic tote, duct tape it closed, then toss the tote into the bay.

Now look at this

You say th death penalty is revenge? Your God Damned right it is, and it is too kind. If you ask me the mother and step father should have never made it to jail.

What I described above actually happened, her body washed up in a plastic tote in Galveston bay. Go read articles on "Baby Grace" and let me know how you feel about it.

That is why I endorse the death penalty. Because some folks have earned it.

The kind of emotion you had when you wrote this, that's EXACTLY how I feel everyday going to work. If you can take the life of another human being on purpose then you have lost the right to have yours! And it PISSES ME OFF that they can go to prison and continue to act as if they are superior to me! Attacking me, trying to rape me, lying on me to get their way, cornering me and trying to get me to back down....

AEF, you have NO idea what I go through in just ONE DAY at my job. You wouldn't last an hour in the prison I work at! And you want to know why I get so upset?! I'm sorry, I don't mean to attack you personally, I know you are entitled to your opinion, but what makes me mad is that when you tell us your opinion, you come off like some holier than thou asshole that will not tolerate anyone elses opinion on anything.

If I'm out of line, I apologize. I've let my emotions get the best of me in this thread, and I'm sorry.

 

[Peter Parka]

Its very sad and of course it stirs feelings of revenge but how far do we take that? If everything in the world was decided on revenge it would be anarchy.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Its very sad and of course it stirs feelings of revenge but how far do we take that? If everything in the world was decided on revenge it would be anarchy.

Exacting punishement on those who refuse to abide by any type of moral code at all is not anarchy, what is anarchy is allowing criminals to determine how we as a society operate.

 

[boxer810]

Its very sad and of course it stirs feelings of revenge but how far do we take that? If everything in the world was decided on revenge it would be anarchy.

You make a good point. It's not right to let feelings of revenge govern how someone is punished. However, they should be made to pay for what they did in the fullest extent.

 

[debbie t]

killing is wrong full stop

your story has actually made me cry and get really angry and want to make those people suffer too.i really appreciate what your saying.

but ,we have had people in this country convicted of similar crimes and trust me they suffered in prison ,only to be found to be completely innocent.so they have an equally awful story too.if we had had the death penalty those very people would have been murdered by the state.

all i can say is that there are many illnesses which need human guineapigs for the research for cures ,perhaps that would be an ideal way of letting these people pay their debt to society.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

killing is wrong full stop

your story has actually made me cry and get really angry and want to make those people suffer too.i really appreciate what your saying.

but ,we have had people in this country convicted of similar crimes and trust me they suffered in prison ,only to be found to be completely innocent.so they have an equally awful story too.if we had had the death penalty those very people would have been murdered by the state.

all i can say is that there are many illnesses which need human guineapigs for the research for cures ,perhaps that would be an ideal way of letting these people pay their debt to society.

Wrongful accusation happens, yes, it happens with life imprisonment as well, but we have not eliminated that.

There is a rather in depth appelate process that an American citizen is entitled to, and criminals stop at nothing to take that right through every appeals court they can find.

I feel that is Constitutional so let us not eliminate that, that being said, after hundreds of appeals, public outpouring, sitting on death row an average of 10 years, at some point you have to say...Pull the trigger.

How about the guilty that are set free?

 

[debbie t]

its evident that the strong feelings for and against the death penalty are ,on this forum at least,cultural.the americans and the brits being at opposite poles on this issue.

i think my husband must be american in that case

we abolished hanging in this country many years ago and so have experience of the consequences of that ,and we have less murders than you if the graph posted is to be believed.

how does one deal with the number of young british muslims in our country who are willing to kill their fellow countrymen(our biggest problem right now)and dont give a shit about the death penalty ,infact welcome it,they actually want to die and go and party with allah
in this instance its no deterrant ,nor is it a punishment

trust me paedophiles and child murders get more punishment in prison here and suffer more than they would being given a lethal injection..they are actually living in hell...this would seem better revenge

 

[GraceAbounds]

You say th death penalty is revenge? Your Damned right it is, and it is too kind. If you ask me the mother and step father should have never made it to jail.

The death penalty is not to be about revenge. It is to be about justice, thus why it is called the justice system. (not that it is 'just' all the time, but what do you expect? - It is ran by man and we are fallible) We can only do the best we can do.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

The death penalty is not to be about revenge. It is to be about justice, thus why it is called the justice system. (not that it is 'just' all the time, but what do you expect? - It is ran by man and we are fallible) We can only do the best we can do.

My revenge comment was in direct response to AEF's insistence that we do it only for revenge purposes, that it essentially does nothing more for society. My attitude is if you want to call it that, well it's fine with me.

(pppssstt good to see you darlin')

 

[GraceAbounds]

(pppssstt good to see you darlin')

You too Evan - always a pleasure. :smiley31:

 

[Peter Parka]

The death penalty is not to be about revenge. It is to be about justice, thus why it is called the justice system. (not that it is 'just' all the time, but what do you expect? - It is ran by man and we are fallible) We can only do the best we can do.

Although I still disagree strongly with you about having the death penalty or now, wow! Something in this thread that I can actually agree with you on!:clap

 

[Tim]

To those who support the death penalty I ask... Our justice system is not perfect, it never will be. There will be people who are wrongfully accused, convicted and put to death with our current judicial system. So how many innocent deaths are acceptable to you in order to keep capital punishment legal in this country?
If it were one of your sons or daughters who were in the wrong place at the wrong time and were accused, charged and convicted of murder... would you be okay with the fact that they are innocent and on death row knowing that capital punishment is working most of the time?

You should NEVER sentence anyone to death for a crime that you cannot be 100% sure that they are guilty of. It is barbaric to do so.