MMA thread
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Before anybody says it, I like combat sports mostly equally. Maybe MMA edges out boxing and kickboxing by a bit (a very tiny bit, if at all), so this isn't an attack on any of them. I'm just kind of disgusted by the anti-kickboxing mentality a couple of you have shown.
Oh seriously, come the fuck on. This is just disgusting. To try to discredit an entire sport, a sport that is exciting, not nearly popular enough in North America, and has some great fighters, because Sapp knocked out Hoost? Sapp also laid a pounding on Big Nog for a while before getting subbed, does this make Big Nog anything but a legend in MMA? Sapp also has pretty similar records in both kickboxing and MMA, so does this make MMA a joke too? Is this only good combat sport boxing?
Honestly, Sapp got lucky for a few fights, caught people off guard, and now people know who he is. Using him as an example is poor.
To call Badr Hari a joke... just wow. To call them all glass jawed brawlers. Like any sport, you got some glass jawed fighters, and some brawlers, but not everyone is like that. You call Gokhan Saki a glass jawed brawler? This guy gets hit by people bigger than him all the time, he shows great technical ability, and that's all he is? Daniel Ghita, a guy with murderous leg kicks, just a glass jawed brawler?
I actually feel sorry for you, that you can't appreciate kickboxing.
It's not the sport, it's the people that participate. And due to it being a combat sport (where literally one punch can change it all), it's pretty easy to have upsets.
And a boxing guy would have a hard time walking into a kickboxing match and winning, so?
THEY'RE ALL DIFFERENT SPORTS. I'm not arguing against boxing, kickboxing or MMA. Ray Mercer knocked the fuck out of Tim Sylvia. So MMA sucks. MMArtists don't have any talent.
The truth is, it's hard for anybody to walk into another sport and win. It happens, but it's rare in the grand scheme of things.
And really, no growth? No new talent? C'mon. I'm not going to sit here and list every single kickboxing prospect but there are completely solid fighters coming up, and even some of those guys who have been kickboxing for over 10 years are not even that old (like Buakaw Por. Pramuk, who's only like, what, 30?)
Let's not kid ourselves, Mousasi a) is a beast and b) trained hard for kickboxing (was originally a kickboxer, actually... his first fight was KICKBOXING, not MMA, and has shown to have some of the better stand-up in MMA). And let's not kid ourselves, while Mousasi is one of my favourite fighters, and a win over Kyotaro is good no matter what, Kyotaro fought Schilt 2 weeks before Mousasi. I hate to even mention that because I don't want to discredit Mousasi in the least, but it's the truth. Still a great win but let's be reasonable.
Rampage fought a guy in kickboxing who's claim to fame was a mediocre record, and UPSETTING (get over it, upsets happen... sometimes people have your number, in any sport) Aerts. And any kickboxer Rampage fought in MMA was... well, in MMA. The same rules don't apply because once you factor in the ground and takedowns, the game changes.
Kawajiri beat a guy who was DECENT and then lost to someone really legit. Honestly.
Only, they have to worry about kicking and not just punching, so their defense is different. No, it isn't boxing, but boxers train to get hit with hands, and only hands, and they train accordingly. It's honestly like saying that in order to have good defense in MMA you need to have a boxing stance, and do exactly as boxers do. Can adapting some boxing techniques work in MMA? Yes, but not every one, not 100%, unless you just want to get taken down. Kickboxers have to train with kicks as well, it changes the whole game. You can't apply all the rules of everything to each sport. They can all compliment each other, though.
Overeem is just one example. He has his flaws like any fighter.
I can agree that the Overeem bros have a lack of heart. I think The Reem is an offensive machine but he's been shown to turtle. I won't argue this (though he's still a serious threat to anyone in the HW division, regardless).
The best fighters are in the UFC? Are you saying all, or just most? I agree that a large percentage are, but all, god no.
The LW division outside of the UFC is stronger, except now it's pretty complicated due to the fact Strikeforce is Zuffa owned. But let's treat them as a different company since it's not technically UFC (yet). Melendez and Aoki are top 5 LWs, Alvarez is a top 5 LW. I would even go so far as to say that Melendez is the best LW in the world. Edgar is solid, but he's not the best. UFC's LW division isn't anything that special to be honest, especially with Penn now fighting at WW, and Gomi not being what he once was.
The HW division outside of UFC is better. The Reem, Fedor, Bigfoot, Werdum, Sergei, Barnett (and whoever else I'm forgetting because this is all off the top of my head) are better than the UFC division. However, I feel Cain and JDS are completely legit and would give any of them fits. Doesn't change the fact that two guys who aren't even proven to be top of the division doesn't make the UFC HWs the best. The UFC has some other solid HWs too but they're not proven yet. I have really liked Dave Herman for a while and it's nice that he's getting a break in the UFC now, but he's not the top yet.
Anyway, I don't need to go through every division do I? I mean, the UFC has a large percentage of top fighters but that doesn't mean all. Not to mention that the fighting in the UFC is different than say, Japan. Different rules, different system. That's not saying every UFC fighter would get wrecked in Japan, because that's just plain silly, but it does factor in.
And this shitting all over Overeem and his K-1 Level Striking because of Werdum is silly. Overeem always had to worry about the takedowns, and not to mention, it's not like Werdum was really trying to fight, anyway. Makes it hard to look good. But the fight sucked.
Oh seriously, come the fuck on. This is just disgusting. To try to discredit an entire sport, a sport that is exciting, not nearly popular enough in North America, and has some great fighters, because Sapp knocked out Hoost? Sapp also laid a pounding on Big Nog for a while before getting subbed, does this make Big Nog anything but a legend in MMA? Sapp also has pretty similar records in both kickboxing and MMA, so does this make MMA a joke too? Is this only good combat sport boxing?
Honestly, Sapp got lucky for a few fights, caught people off guard, and now people know who he is. Using him as an example is poor.
To call Badr Hari a joke... just wow. To call them all glass jawed brawlers. Like any sport, you got some glass jawed fighters, and some brawlers, but not everyone is like that. You call Gokhan Saki a glass jawed brawler? This guy gets hit by people bigger than him all the time, he shows great technical ability, and that's all he is? Daniel Ghita, a guy with murderous leg kicks, just a glass jawed brawler?
I actually feel sorry for you, that you can't appreciate kickboxing.
It's not the sport, it's the people that participate. And due to it being a combat sport (where literally one punch can change it all), it's pretty easy to have upsets.
And a boxing guy would have a hard time walking into a kickboxing match and winning, so?
THEY'RE ALL DIFFERENT SPORTS. I'm not arguing against boxing, kickboxing or MMA. Ray Mercer knocked the fuck out of Tim Sylvia. So MMA sucks. MMArtists don't have any talent.
The truth is, it's hard for anybody to walk into another sport and win. It happens, but it's rare in the grand scheme of things.
And really, no growth? No new talent? C'mon. I'm not going to sit here and list every single kickboxing prospect but there are completely solid fighters coming up, and even some of those guys who have been kickboxing for over 10 years are not even that old (like Buakaw Por. Pramuk, who's only like, what, 30?)
Let's not kid ourselves, Mousasi a) is a beast and b) trained hard for kickboxing (was originally a kickboxer, actually... his first fight was KICKBOXING, not MMA, and has shown to have some of the better stand-up in MMA). And let's not kid ourselves, while Mousasi is one of my favourite fighters, and a win over Kyotaro is good no matter what, Kyotaro fought Schilt 2 weeks before Mousasi. I hate to even mention that because I don't want to discredit Mousasi in the least, but it's the truth. Still a great win but let's be reasonable.
Rampage fought a guy in kickboxing who's claim to fame was a mediocre record, and UPSETTING (get over it, upsets happen... sometimes people have your number, in any sport) Aerts. And any kickboxer Rampage fought in MMA was... well, in MMA. The same rules don't apply because once you factor in the ground and takedowns, the game changes.
Kawajiri beat a guy who was DECENT and then lost to someone really legit. Honestly.
Only, they have to worry about kicking and not just punching, so their defense is different. No, it isn't boxing, but boxers train to get hit with hands, and only hands, and they train accordingly. It's honestly like saying that in order to have good defense in MMA you need to have a boxing stance, and do exactly as boxers do. Can adapting some boxing techniques work in MMA? Yes, but not every one, not 100%, unless you just want to get taken down. Kickboxers have to train with kicks as well, it changes the whole game. You can't apply all the rules of everything to each sport. They can all compliment each other, though.
Overeem is just one example. He has his flaws like any fighter.
I can agree that the Overeem bros have a lack of heart. I think The Reem is an offensive machine but he's been shown to turtle. I won't argue this (though he's still a serious threat to anyone in the HW division, regardless).
The best fighters are in the UFC? Are you saying all, or just most? I agree that a large percentage are, but all, god no.
The LW division outside of the UFC is stronger, except now it's pretty complicated due to the fact Strikeforce is Zuffa owned. But let's treat them as a different company since it's not technically UFC (yet). Melendez and Aoki are top 5 LWs, Alvarez is a top 5 LW. I would even go so far as to say that Melendez is the best LW in the world. Edgar is solid, but he's not the best. UFC's LW division isn't anything that special to be honest, especially with Penn now fighting at WW, and Gomi not being what he once was.
The HW division outside of UFC is better. The Reem, Fedor, Bigfoot, Werdum, Sergei, Barnett (and whoever else I'm forgetting because this is all off the top of my head) are better than the UFC division. However, I feel Cain and JDS are completely legit and would give any of them fits. Doesn't change the fact that two guys who aren't even proven to be top of the division doesn't make the UFC HWs the best. The UFC has some other solid HWs too but they're not proven yet. I have really liked Dave Herman for a while and it's nice that he's getting a break in the UFC now, but he's not the top yet.
Anyway, I don't need to go through every division do I? I mean, the UFC has a large percentage of top fighters but that doesn't mean all. Not to mention that the fighting in the UFC is different than say, Japan. Different rules, different system. That's not saying every UFC fighter would get wrecked in Japan, because that's just plain silly, but it does factor in.
And this shitting all over Overeem and his K-1 Level Striking because of Werdum is silly. Overeem always had to worry about the takedowns, and not to mention, it's not like Werdum was really trying to fight, anyway. Makes it hard to look good. But the fight sucked.
Feder/Hendo is coming up next. I call bullshit on whichever commentator (don't know the Strikeforce ones by name) calling Fedor the "best mixed martial artist in history". I know a lot of people feel that way, but I just don't see it. One of the best for sure, the best though? No way.
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Well, thus ends Fedor's run in Strikeforce... Zuffa cut him today.
http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/6833956/fedor-emelianenko-cut-zuffa-llc
http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/6833956/fedor-emelianenko-cut-zuffa-llc
Overeem was cut a few days ago as well
http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/6818410/alistair-overeem-dropped-strikeforce-reports-say
http://espn.go.com/mma/story/_/id/6818410/alistair-overeem-dropped-strikeforce-reports-say
Overeem went on Inside MMA last night and talked about being released, I haven't watched it yet though. He'll probably beat Brock up if they fight, but honestly I think a lot of guys would beat the living shit out of Overeem, Werdum exposed him. Well not really "Exposed" because we knew from past experience that he had no heart or chin, but exposed the fact that he is still the same fighter he always was. You can take all the steroids in the world but you can't buy a chin :dunno
There was a loophole of sorts in Overeem's contract that let them release him after he refused the Strikeforce fight due to injury and then accepted the Golden Glory one. Dana has said that he'd like to sign him to UFC though.
I seriously doubt he'd beat Brock up though. Call me a Brock fanboy, but I just don't see it.
I seriously doubt he'd beat Brock up though. Call me a Brock fanboy, but I just don't see it.
The only reason he's still going to have a job is to promote the event in Japan in February.
Oh, and WTF was up with Hallman's "shorts"? They were way smaller than even wrestling tights... fucking nasty. He was basically wrestling in a speedo.
Dear God... that's just fucking wrong. I'm not surprised about Hamill though, he looked completely out of shape for that fight.
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