Martin/Zimmerman-----Poll

[Kakapo Dundee]

I havent lost shit....now go do what you do best taste tester for Jesse....errr I mean taste testing Jesse

substance?

 

[retro]

Show me the substance in any of your last 30 pages.

I'll take care of that for you.... there isn't any substance. :24:

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

Fucking brilliant.......are you a moron as well.
Let me guess....To much acid as a teenager

substance?

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

Thanks...now shut the fuck up

substance?

Seriously dude, you need to log off for a while, your ass is getting handed to you on a plate, there's no way that you can argue for anything other than a full trial based on the facts gathered from independent witnesses, forensics, and police interviews.
I predict that Zimmerman will convict himself under oath.

 

[Aeval]

He is a witness to his attack....are you that fucking stupid?.
You appear to be stuck in your own shadow little boy.

So no one has ever lied to cover their ass before?

What is said is gospel and not to be investigated?

 

[Minor Axis]

So no one has ever lied to cover their ass before?

What is said is gospel and not to be investigated?

Good advice: stop banging your head against a brick wall. The wall won't get any smarter and you'll just get a headache.

 

[All Else Failed]

sup brehs what did I miss

 

[Alien Allen]

You don't know that. We don't know who initiated the confrontation, except that if Zimmerman had stayed in his car, it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

The fact Zimmerman got out of his car though seems to have you guys convicting him. At least that is the perception I have of your posts.

Let say he would have stayed in the car but then kept an eye on Martin. That would have meant he had to turn a corner or two in the car. Is that being confrontational?

Or is a person who sees something they perceive to be suspicious supposed to just go home? Forget the watchman part. Lets just say it is anybody coming or leaving their residence who sees something iffy. Are they to just call the police and leave? I would not get out of the car myself because I am not a big person and would not want to risk being in harms way. But I sure would follow the person in my car the best I could.

I get the feeling you guys think Zimmerman should have just gone home.

As to the issue of the gun it comes down to who confronted who. Can you at least grasp the concept of Martin being pissed off at being followed and confronting Zimmerman?

Seems like either one could have easily started lipping off at the other which started it all. Martin for being followed or Zimmerman questioning what the hell Martin was doing.

Getting out of a car and having a gun is not a slam dunk to convict

It is simple to say he should have stayed in the car and not got out with a gun. Stupid yes, guilty of murder. Not with what I am seeing. If FL has manslaughter available rather than 2nd degree I could see that being a convictible offense potentially. But even that might be tough..

 

[Johnfromokc]

Yeah - why should Zimmerman have stayed in the car like he was told and like he was trained by the Sanford Police Safety Officer when his HOA set up the neighborhood watch?

Fuck common sense! Can't let black thugs in hoodies walk on our sidewalks! Damn the consequences! Chase that punk-ass knee-grow down and pop a cap in his thug ass!

You're right Allen. Zimmerman had every right to chase Martin down and shoot him. What were we thinking using common sense and logic. You win.

 

[Alien Allen]

you guys seem to be having trouble trying to carry a discussion.

I should know better than to present anything other than what some deem to be the truth

You guys claim all you want is to have a trial but you are dripping with what is no different than a lynch mob mentality

Anything that does not fit into your view of what happened is not just dismissed but is derided.

I have stated from the beginning I don't think this was murder. I never said Zimmerman was without blame. I have merely questioned and provided possibilities which don't fit into the pre determination of guilt by some here.

Have fun

I am done playing your game

 

[Johnfromokc]

you guys seem to be having trouble trying to carry a discussion.

I should know better than to present anything other than what some deem to be the truth

You guys claim all you want is to have a trial but you are dripping with what is no different than a lynch mob mentality

Anything that does not fit into your view of what happened is not just dismissed but is derided.

Have fun

I am done playing your game

You Zimmerbigots cannot seem to grasp the fact that Zimmermans disregard of his training and direct instructions from a police dispatcher led to a completely AVOIDABLE killing.

Lets see - Zimmerman calls cops because black kid in hoodie "looks suspicious" and "up to something" (You know - like talking to his girlfriend on the phone)

Zimmerman had previously been trained by the Sanford Police to NEVER follow a suspect.

Dispatcher reinforces Zimmermans prior training and tells him not to follow Martin.

Zimmerman disregards his training and the dispatcher and follows and confronts Martin anyway.

At this point, Zimmerman has crossed the line for self defense and SYG - he is own his own.

According to the statement by Martins girlfriend, Zimmerman confronts Martin.

Did Zimmerman put his hands on Martin and get his ass kicked for it and then shoot Martin because he was getting his wannabee cop ass kicked? Sorry - not self defense or SYG - that's Murder 2 per Florida law.

The cops did not believe Zimmerman according to police statements. They KNOW Zimmerman insitgated this entire incident.

Did Martin deserve to die because Zimmerman disregarded his training and disregarded the instructions of the dispatcher?

No matter what Zimmermans excuse for killing Martin, Zimmerman caused this situation to happen even though he was trained and instructed to avoid it. Why can't you Zimmerbigots get that?

The only reason I can phathom that anyone would declare Zimmermans killing of Martin justified under these circumstances is becasue they think Martin was a thug because he was black and therefore his life is not worth as much as Zimmermans. It defies common sense, logic and justice.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

The minor details of who hit who, and who said what, are a sideshow in this case. What the court is being asked to decide is the whole SYG legislation was intended for. Is it there to protect the scared young woman who shoots the would-be rapist trying to break down her door, or is it to validate the vigilante who profiles young black men and wants all of the glory of law enforcement but with none of the responsibility?

 

[Alien Allen]

The minor details of who hit who, and who said what, are a sideshow in this case. What the court is being asked to decide is the whole SYG legislation was intended for. Is it there to protect the scared young woman who shoots the would-be rapist trying to break down her door, or is it to validate the vigilante who profiles young black men and wants all of the glory of law enforcement but with none of the responsibility?

Ok I can't help but respond.

The minor details of who hit who, and who said what, are a sideshow in this case.

Those are not minor details. They are what will determine innocence or guilt

What the court is being asked to decide is the whole SYG legislation was intended for.

This court will not make a decision on the validity of the SYG legislation. This court will merely determine if he is guilty of 2nd degree murder

The validity of the law itself is a separate issue

 

[Tangerine]

Those are not minor details. They are what will determine innocence or guilt

I disagree. It's not really in dispute who hit who. Clearly GZ lost the physical fight with Martin. That doesn't really in any way impact whether or not GZ is guilty or not. Simply losing a fight doesn't give you the right to kill.

I believe the real crux of the guilt or innocence will come down to how "overzealous" the jury believes GZ was in his pursuit of Martin. A key part of the case will center around exactly when and in what situation GZ's gun was drawn.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

This court will not make a decision on the validity of the SYG legislation. This court will merely determine if he is guilty of 2nd degree murder

The validity of the law itself is a separate issue

Absolutely, I agree. Surely you must realise that regardless of the decision of the court, this incident has opened a much bigger can of worms that will have to be addressed. Neither side of the wider debate will pack up and go home if the verdict goes against them, it's about more than the two individuals involved. There's already been scaremongering from the Zimmerman supporters that there could be rioting in the streets if their man isn't convicted, and that the whole court case is a political sham.

The reality is that Zimmerman shot an unarmed man dead.

Can it really be true that in the 21st century this is the only acceptable option for dealing with someone that frightens you? Of course not. Zimmerman had the option to stand his ground, he could have stood his ground in the safety of the vehicle, or from the safety of his couch.The wider question is, should you be allowed to deliberately put yourself in harm's way and disregard training and instruction in order to create a situation where you can interpret the law as giving you the right to live out your fantasies?

 

[The Man]

The minor details of who hit who, and who said what, are a sideshow in this case. What the court is being asked to decide is the whole SYG legislation was intended for. Is it there to protect the scared young woman who shoots the would-be rapist trying to break down her door, or is it to validate the vigilante who profiles young black men and wants all of the glory of law enforcement but with none of the responsibility?

There may be a modification of the currents laws in the future.
This isnt a SYG case its a claim of self defense...SYG simply means you arent required to retreat{which he couldnt have if he was getting his butt whipped and head smashed anyway}

The guy will go to trial for 2nd degree murder if he loses he does a minimum of 25 years.
So if you think the guy was defending himself from serious physical injury ...then find him innocent
If you think he went to shoot the guy when he left the SUV then find him guilty.
Pretty simple really
One is presumed innocent until proven guilty here in the states..remember that.
Essentially if the guy loses..its a railroad job

 

[The Man]

Absolutely, I agree. Surely you must realise that regardless of the decision of the court, this incident has opened a much bigger can of worms that will have to be addressed. Neither side of the wider debate will pack up and go home if the verdict goes against them, it's about more than the two individuals involved. There's already been scaremongering from the Zimmerman supporters that there could be rioting in the streets if their man isn't convicted, and that the whole court case is a political sham.

The reality is that Zimmerman shot an unarmed man dead.

Can it really be true that in the 21st century this is the only acceptable option for dealing with someone that frightens you? Of course not. Zimmerman had the option to stand his ground, he could have stood his ground in the safety of the vehicle, or from the safety of his couch.The wider question is, should you be allowed to deliberately put yourself in harm's way and disregard training and instruction in order to create a situation where you can interpret the law as giving you the right to live out your fantasies?

Look...he went to see where martin went...stupid yes..a crime no.
Is he supposed to let the young man beat him to death because he should have stayed in the SUV?
If you think yes...then dont even bother responding to this post.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

Essentially if the guy loses..its a railroad job

Your position is clear.Regardless of whatever evidence is presented in a court of law, you've already made up your mind.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

Look...he went to see where martin went...stupid yes..a crime no.
Is he supposed to let the young man beat him to death because he should have stayed in the SUV?
If you think yes...then dont even bother responding to this post.

That's the key plank to your argument, the argument that you have constructed to justify the result that you demand from the court. The truth has become irrelevant, you just want Zimmerman acquitted at any cost.

 

[The Man]

A key part of the case will center around exactly when and in what situation GZ's gun was drawn.

Boom.
Finally you post something of value....well done