look at us

[TommyTooter]

Google it Tommy like I google words that I don't know.


My family wasn't here either so I'm not taking the blame just like you. That would be a dumb question. Hypothetically I can't envision the Indians ever being the dominant ones in society. But if they were sure things would be different. Can't say if it would be any better or any worse. I can say that there's no sense wasting my time thinking about a hypothetical question like this one. :dunno It is what it is today and to dwell in the past isn't doing anyone any good. Now figuring out how we can get people to get along is something worth thinking about. And the video is not helping matters any for anyone.

go look at crow dog's message.

figuring out how to get people to get along is pie in the sky thinking that does nothing to address the abuses of a very small percentage of the population who claim ownership of everything.

 

[darkangel]

i think...yes I think bashing is done with malafide intentions...
sermonizing has some other purpose

Do you mean mala fide? The fraudulent deception of another person. How does that define bashing? I don't get how that relates. Although I do see this guy as being totally Bias cuz of his heritage. You call that a sermon? Maybe where your from but not where I stand. That video was atypical of a one sided POV which put down Americans and our culture. There's no way around seeing it differently unless you are swayed by an old man with an Axe to grind cuz he couldn't get anywhere in life besides being a political activist.

 

[darkangel]

go look at crow dog's message.

Nah I don't feel like clicking on a link put out by you.

figuring out how to get people to get along is pie in the sky thinking that does nothing to address the abuses of a very small percentage of the population who claim ownership of everything.

That totally makes absolutely no sense. Care to rewrite that? What small percentage of the population are you talking about? :confused

 

[dkwrtw]

go look at crow dog's message.

figuring out how to get people to get along is pie in the sky thinking that does nothing to address the abuses of a very small percentage of the population who claim ownership of everything.

Why does the majority of the population allow themselves to be abused by such a small percentage? Perhaps they should DO something about it rather than sit around bitching about it, the majority of people are weaklings who want to be controlled.

 

[TommyTooter]

Nah I don't feel like clicking on a link put out by you.



That totally makes absolutely no sense. Care to rewrite that? What small percentage of the population are you talking about? :confused

old money royalty and the mercenaries buckminster fuller characterized as the great pirates who controlled the trade routes and the royal families. the bush and morgan families are good examples of old pirate families.

unfortunately, the crow dog home page is copy protected. if you had been a little less rude, i might have taken the trouble to copy his message for you.

 

[TommyTooter]

Why does the majority of the population allow themselves to be abused by such a small percentage? Perhaps they should DO something about it rather than sit around bitching about it, the majority of people are weaklings who want to be controlled.

very little has changed over the 5 or 6 millenia of recorded history.

most people just want to live their lives simply and at peace with each other. it's always been a small fraction that insist on owning everything and telling everybody how they have to live their lives. then when you've got adjacent nations start to rub up on each other and the head honchos competing for who will be in charge, you get war.

that's where the pirates have found their niche. they control the trade routes. they move the freight and play both ends from the middle. look at the swiss. they control the money for everybody.

 

[dkwrtw]

Good for the Swiss, I'm glad they can profit off of the rest of the world's conflicts.

 

[darkangel]

unfortunately, the crow dog home page is copy protected. if you had been a little less rude, i might have taken the trouble to copy his message for you.

If it's protected then why post a link to it? That serves no purpose. Lesson for today Tommy and read this slowly...If you want to get a point across copy/paste and then supply a link. And I don't think I was rude. Just being honest. I could care less about his message...

 

[TommyTooter]

If it's protected then why post a link to it? That serves no purpose. Lesson for today Tommy and read this slowly...If you want to get a point across copy/paste and then supply a link. And I don't think I was rude. Just being honest. I could care less about his message...

I could care less about his message.

lady, i call that rude. you have dismissed the video with an ad hominem tirade against john trudell without a word in refutation of his assertions and now you are too hip to go read a short statement by one of the most important living elders because i couldn't copy and paste it here? before you ask again, i have no idea why the site was copy-protected. ask their webmaster.

you're redlining my bullshit meter.

 

[darkangel]

I could care less about his message.

lady, i call that rude. you have dismissed the video with an ad hominem tirade against john trudell without a word in refutation of his assertions and now you are too hip to go read a short statement by one of the most important living elders because i couldn't copy and paste it here? before you ask again, i have no idea why the site was copy-protected. ask their webmaster.

you're redlining my bullshit meter.

That's not rude. That's being straight forward and honest unlike some people. I didn't dismiss the video. I even watched that crap twice just for you. I have no interest in reading about who you consider a living legend. *shrugs* If you can't copy/paste from a site then I don't see how you expect everybody to click on a link without showing what its about by paraphrasing and/or quoting from it. I don't click on everyones links so don't feel special.

Hell if you missed it I took the time to read his biography and find out on my own what the man was about and I was not impressed. I am entitled to my opinion and I am entitled to disagree with you. If you can't handle that then maybe you shouldn't be posting in Debate. ijs

And I feel honored to be reclining your bullshit meter cuz you have laid mine flat.

 

[TommyTooter]

That's not rude. That's being straight forward and honest unlike some people. I didn't dismiss the video. I even watched that crap twice just for you. I have no interest in reading about who you consider a living legend. *shrugs* If you can't copy/paste from a site then I don't see how you expect everybody to click on a link without showing what its about by paraphrasing and/or quoting from it. I don't click on everyones links so don't feel special.

Hell if you missed it I took the time to read his biography and find out on my own what the man was about and I was not impressed. I am entitled to my opinion and I am entitled to disagree with you. If you can't handle that then maybe you shouldn't be posting in Debate. ijs

And I feel honored to be reclining your bullshit meter cuz you have laid mine flat.

whatever. you have still not refuted one word the man said.

 

[darkangel]

whatever. you have still not refuted one word the man said.

How can I stand behind a man who in 1975 was arrested on charges of assault, felonious assault, and assault with a deadly weapon. He had gone to a trading post to try to get better nutrition for senior residents. He tried to give their food stamps, but he reservation trading post did not accept food stamps. Reports say he fired a shot inside the store.

A reservation Trading post!

I'm sorry but he's not the perfect man you portrait him to be. Or are you going to say that this was rational behavior? His intentions might have been good but he brought a gun and used it in the store. That there I have no respect for. At that time he was old enough to know better. Almost 30 years old I think and behaving in such a manner. That's not how political activists behave or should behave.

 

[TommyTooter]

How can I stand behind a man who in 1975 was arrested on charges of assault, felonious assault, and assault with a deadly weapon. He had gone to a trading post to try to get better nutrition for senior residents. He tried to give their food stamps, but he reservation trading post did not accept food stamps. Reports say he fired a shot inside the store.

A reservation Trading post!

I'm sorry but he's not the perfect man you portrait him to be. Or are you going to say that this was rational behavior? His intentions might have been good but he brought a gun and used it in the store. That there I have no respect for. At that time he was old enough to know better. Almost 30 years old I think and behaving in such a manner. That's not how political activists behave or should behave.

there you go with another ad hominem tirade telling us why you won't listen to the man without refuting his words.

also, i haven't portrayed him as much of anything beyond a respected artist who is passionate, reactionary and was a big hit with the yuppies back in the late 80's.

do you even know the whole story around what went down in the mid-70's with AIM at wounded knee and the jumping bull ranch? we're not talking about middle class whiners bitching about abortion, wars they're for or against, fur coats or marijuana laws. wikipedia is likely not the best source for that history.

we're talking about a people who have been oppressed by invading europeans for over 500 years. people whose lands were taken, cultures disrupted. even their languages are suppressed. it is amazing that the young native americans do not act up like the palestinians in israel.

though i'm unfamiliar with trudell's arrest, it is quite likely that it was pretty well spun to put trudell in something other than the best of lighting.

 

[darkangel]

Ok I am officially refuting every single word he said in that video. I can only ask if you know the man so well then how come you didn't know about his fiasco and arrest? Hhmmmmmmm?

 

[TommyTooter]

Ok I am officially refuting every single word he said in that video. I can only ask if you know the man so well then how come you didn't know about his fiasco and arrest? Hhmmmmmmm?

oh get off it. i never said i knew the man well. we had a mutual friend in the late 80's.

you are the one who shouldn't be posting in the debate section if you can't debate.

 

[darkangel]

as i said, john trudell, is a poet and an AIMster. i've met him. he has a lot of resentment for what happened and continues to happen to his people. with leonard peltier still in prison and vern bellacourt passed on, AIM may have some gaps in its leadership from the more moderate, reconciliatory elders. i don't know, i've been away from them for over 10 years.

oh get off it. i never said i knew the man well. we had a mutual friend in the late 80's.

You should really pay attention to what you post Tommy. You stated you met him and know all of this about him. Yet you don't know the man well? Or were you misleading us by saying you met him? You either met him or had a mutual friend. Which is it Tommy?

you are the one who shouldn't be posting in the debate section if you can't debate.

I like debate. Just because you can't deal with my posts and aren't getting from me what you want to hear doesn't mean I can't debate. It sounds like a personal problem that you have.

 

[darkangel]

It seems to me that Trudell was mixed up in quite a lot.

JOHN TRUDELL, A PROFILE OF COWARDICE AN FBI INFORMANT COVERS HIS TRACKS IN THE MURDER

It was an FBI operative/informant responsible for the death of Anna Mae. It is well known within the American Indian Movement that Trudell has attempted to place snitch jackets on several members of the American Indian Movement. In the end we must ask just when did John Trudell actually become an FBI informant? The answer would reveal much.

Why, 31 years ago, did Trudell expose, at my trial, a conversation he had with Dennis Banks that Banks told him that Anna Mae had been killed BEFORE HER BODY HAD BEEN IDENTIFIED. It wasn't relevant to my trial and its significance was not immediately grasped. Was it done in preparation for an opportune time? What about his conversation with Arlo Looking Cloud in 1988, incriminating both Looking Cloud and Graham into Anna Mae's execution? What sort of deal did the FBI have with Trudell? Trudell also implicated others: "Lorelei Means, Madonna Thunder Hawk and Thelma Rios, as persons guarding Anna Mae" in Thelma's home in Rapid City. Why did Trudell, after 27 years of accusing the FBI for killing of Anna Mae, decide to accuse members of AIM instead?

Trudell's testimony in the Looking Cloud trial establishes that he knew for 16 years that John Graham, aka, John Boy Patten, Arlo Looking Cloud, and Theda Nelson Clark took Anna Mae, who was tied up, from Denver, Colorado to Rapid City, South Dakota, where she, according to witnesses, was questioned at the Wounded Knee Legal Defense/Offense Committee and ultimately shot in the head by John "Boy" Graham. Trudell says that he knows Looking Cloud and Graham were "following orders.". If he knows who gave the orders he has yet to say. Perhaps Trudell has been saving this part of the puzzle for the Graham trial.

Several sources have stated that Trudell asked Kamook Banks to participate and gave her "strong words of support" to encourage her to take the witness stand to testify about an alleged confession she heard by Leonard Peltier. This, together with the testimony of another long time close friend of Trudell's, Troy Lynn Yellow Wood, said that Anna Mae told her Peltier had put a gun to her head in an attempt implicate Peltier to the Anna Mae murder. Kamook also testified that Anna Maetold her the same story at the 1975 AIM Conference (SEE Arlo Looking Cloud trial transcript: http://www.jfamr.org/doc/index.html ) I never saw Kamook at the Conference and her sister, Bernie Lafferty corroborated she was not there (taped phone conversation, August 4th, 2004). I was present and I never saw Leonard with a gun when Banks and Vernon Bellecourt ordered us to take Anna Mae out to question her. Trudell publicly rallied for Peltier's freedom for more than 20 years. Why has Trudell now turned on Leonard to encourage the proffering of lies from long time friends and associates?

"The way I understand how things went John T (Trudell) contacted Kamook about telling the truth. So why he has come out of this smelling like a rose and Kamook takes the label of informant is beyond me," expressed Denise Maloney after the Looking Cloud trial. She has also described odd behavior by Trudell just before the Looking Cloud trial: "When I ran into John Trudell in San Francisco in 2002 he ran around the room like a chicken with his head cut off ... talking in code and not really saying anything." (e-mail, February 11, 2004).

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/07/362371.shtml

 

[TommyTooter]

You should really pay attention to what you post Tommy. You stated you met him and know all of this about him. Yet you don't know the man well? Or were you misleading us by saying you met him? You either met him or had a mutual friend. Which is it Tommy?


I like debate. Just because you can't deal with my posts and aren't getting from me what you want to hear doesn't mean I can't debate. It sounds like a personal problem that you have.

meeting someone is not the same as knowing them. i never made any claim to 'know' the dude. i met him. i didn't spend a minute alone with him and he did have a tendency to rant. i haven't been in contact with any of these people at all since 1999.

 

[TommyTooter]

It seems to me that Trudell was mixed up in quite a lot.


"The way I understand how things went John T (Trudell) contacted Kamook about telling the truth. So why he has come out of this smelling like a rose and Kamook takes the label of informant is beyond me," expressed Denise Maloney after the Looking Cloud trial. She has also described odd behavior by Trudell just before the Looking Cloud trial: "When I ran into John Trudell in San Francisco in 2002 he ran around the room like a chicken with his head cut off ... talking in code and not really saying anything." (e-mail, February 11, 2004).

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/07/362371.shtml

madam, that is just the tip of the iceberg. you familiar with COINTELPRO? the period from 1960 to 1980 is one of the most distorted chapters in the history of distorted chapters of history.

i watched that all go past my face growing up. i watched the black civil rights movement leaders get annihilated and replaced with guns, drugs and oprah and obama as the top role models. give me angela davis and eldridge cleaver.

the native people have been oppressed for over 500 years. in the 20th century, revenues from leases on mineral, grazing and timber rights drove a wedge through all the people, dividing them along the lines of assimilated anglicized people and the traditionals.



casino gambling and turning ceremonies into tourist attractions made things worse. at one point, the traditional at pine ridge were getting terrorized by some ad hoc tribal police force. that was when AIM stepped in and the shootout at jumping bull ranch that led to anna mae aquash's death occurred.

in addition to crime, poverty and substance abuse exacerbated by casino gambling, toxic waste from mines is causing horrible birth defects and degenerative diseases. mercury from timber processing is making fish unfit to eat all over the country. the nuclear test site at mercury, was so badly contaminated, the cheyenne refused to take it back when it was offered.

i can't honestly say much more from the hip, but i did post this in the hope of digging some of the material out and examining it with people. thank you for getting that message and bringing something back.

 

[Peter Parka]

according to asimov, violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, which would make those technologically superior people morally and intellectually inferior to those they overran.