look at us

[TommyTooter]

I don't hate Native Americans any more than I hate anyone else, all people are equally worthless in my eyes, I really couldn't care less who did what to who in the past, wars are fought, people die, people get fucked over, It really does't matter to me.

i'm sure you'll change that tune when it's your family and friends dying and you're the one getting fucked over. it's easy to have a laissez-faire attitude about war when you've only experienced it in the comfort of your living room.

do you include yourself in that hatred or do you consider yourself to be the only human of any value?

 

[TommyTooter]

Are you seriously denying that the Native Americans were technologically inferior to the colonists? That's not hate mongering that's a FACT.

oh please. tell me you're not a white supremacist now.

 

[retro]

fine, this is racist. all it's missing is a statement about which is the strong race and which are the inferior ones.

"It's not our fault they were technologically inferior, the strong take everything and the weak die, that's how the world is designed."

as i said, john trudell, is a poet and an AIMster. i've met him. he has a lot of resentment for what happened and continues to happen to his people. with leonard peltier still in prison and vern bellacourt passed on, AIM may have some gaps in its leadership from the more moderate, reconciliatory elders. i don't know, i've been away from them for over 10 years.

__________________

How is any of what Thornless just said even remotely close to racism? Or are you saying that your little quotation is racist? Because it isn't, it is a statement of historical fact.

 

[dkwrtw]

i'm sure you'll change that tune when it's your family and friends dying and you're the one getting fucked over. it's easy to have a laissez-faire attitude about war when you've only experienced it in the comfort of your living room.

do you include yourself in that hatred or do you consider yourself to be the only human of any value?

There are a lot of people I don't hate, I dislike people in general, but that doesn't mean I don't make exceptions for certain people. I don't hate myself but I don't consider myself particularly valuable either, if I died tomorrow the world would be no better or worse off than it was before :dunno

 

[darkangel]

try it again in the morning. john trudell can be hard to listen to.

Ok I watched the video but this time with sound. And what I got out of it is that this trudell guy is a little bit out there. To have pictures of Bush, I think that was Rumsfeld, soldiers who fight for our rights and freedoms portrayed as like evil, Americans being blamed for everything from taking away from the Indians to destroying the world, sure did fit his poetry or whatever the hell that speech was. To me that video really didn't make the point that Trudell was trying to make unless he is Anti-American. That is a HATE video. Is he for real?

There is nothing we can do about the past but learn from it but when other violent countries decide that they are going to threaten we have no choice but to defend. And you do know that the Indians had a thing for scalping white men. Do you call that a peaceful people? Sure they might have been driven to it but they still did it out of hatred. And I have nothing against Indians. I love their Casinos! Don't you think that they are making out pretty damn good with their land and the money they are able to make on it? Just a passing thought...

Tommy one day the world is going to come to an end. Somehow some way either by our own destruction or by a natural disaster that wasn't caused by human beings. Either way we're ALL going to be DEAD and all that will be left are the cockroaches. I just don't see what purpose this video is for other to be hateful toward Americans. Why would it show the images that it did and say the things that Trudell said unless he was against Americans...This Video is a FAIL! imo

 

[retro]

oh please. tell me you're not a white supremacist now.

It is fact, regardless of skin color, Native Americans were technologically inferior to the British, French, and Spanish. This includes the mesoamerican cultures as well. That's the way that most wars are won, through superior technology and leadership skills.

 

[dkwrtw]

oh please. tell me you're not a white supremacist now.

Saying that Europeans had better technology than Native Americans makes me a white supremacist?

 

[retro]

Saying that Europeans had better technology than Native Americans makes me a white supremacist?

Makes your head hurt, doesn't it? Apparently, in TT's view, historical facts are racist.

 

[Springsteen]

Yeah debate is fine but please refrain from accusing anyone of being racist Tommy.

Thanks.

 

[TommyTooter]

there was nothing in that video that was specifically 'anti-american'. i saw a general theme contrasting the ways of the children of the earth with the ways of the warmongering, slavekeeping multi-national industrialist banker gangsters.

what trudell is speaking strongly against in this country are the very same things that dwight eisenhower warned us would happen if we did not maintain our vigilance and allowed the overzealous leaders of the american military-industrial complex to impose their own perverted rule of law on us.

 

[TommyTooter]

It is fact, regardless of skin color, Native Americans were technologically inferior to the British, French, and Spanish. This includes the mesoamerican cultures as well. That's the way that most wars are won, through superior technology and leadership skills.

according to asimov, violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, which would make those technologically superior people morally and intellectually inferior to those they overran.

 

[darkangel]

there was nothing in that video that was specifically 'anti-american'. i saw a general theme contrasting the ways of the children of the earth with the ways of the warmongering, slavekeeping multi-national industrialist banker gangsters.

That video showed images with the words to go along that blatantly was anti-american. Why else would it show these people and bash our medicine etc etc.?

what trudell is speaking strongly against in this country are the very same things that dwight eisenhower warned us would happen if we did not maintain our vigilance and allowed the overzealous leaders of the american military-industrial complex to impose their own perverted rule of law on us.

How is the american military imposing perverted rule of law on us when they defend our country? They don't run our country. Dirty polititians do that.

I still don't see how you can say this video is about Indians when they are mentioned more briefly than the anti-american crap...

 

[dkwrtw]

according to asimov, violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, which would make those technologically superior people morally and intellectually inferior to those they overran.

Not so, Native Americans went to war with eachother all the time, it wasn't just some big happy family before the Europeans came, it was hundreds if not thousands of tribes many of which were at war with eachother. Morals don't win battles either, superior weaponry however does.

 

[mazHur]

Yes that is why we've become the dominant animal on the planet.

'Physical and physiological resemblance doesn't make us animals...
it is only your mind that makes you so.'
says the Great Maz!!

 

[TommyTooter]

for a little balance, here are some links to the crow dog line, who i think exemplify the thinking of the native elders better than the highly reactionary john trudell.

http://www.swnkacangi.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_parte_Crow_Dog

 

[dkwrtw]

'Physical and physiological resemblance doesn't make us animals...
it is only your mind that makes you so.'
says the Great Maz!!

you can go ahead and think of yourself as some higher being if you want but that doesn't make it so :dunno

 

[retro]

That video showed images with the words to go along that blatantly was anti-american. Why else would it show these people and bash our medicine etc etc.?


How is the american military imposing perverted rule of law on us when they defend our country? They don't run our country. Dirty polititians do that.

I still don't see how you can say this video is about Indians when they are mentioned more briefly than the anti-american crap...

Not the United States military directly, but the American Military Industrial Complex... which includes politicians.

 

[TommyTooter]

That video showed images with the words to go along that blatantly was anti-american. Why else would it show these people and bash our medicine etc etc.?
many white people believe those people should hang for what they do and that american medicine is bad. i worked in medical research as a bench technician. i've seen it from the inside.

How is the american military imposing perverted rule of law on us when they defend our country? They don't run our country. Dirty polititians do that.
they are not defending our country. they are inciting people to attack our institutions and raising armies paid for with taxpayers funds to secure mineral rights, control of banned botanicals and cheap labor pools in underdeveloped countries for the multi-national industrialist banker-gangsters.

I still don't see how you can say this video is about Indians when they are mentioned more briefly than the anti-american crap...

it's not anti-american so much as anti-judeo - christian imperialist plutocracies posing as democracies which is something the rest of the world, as the video pointed out, is guilty of as well.

 

[darkangel]

for a little balance, here are some links to the crow dog line, who i think exemplify the thinking of the native elders better than the highly reactionary john trudell.

You should of thought about posting this in the opening post so we could add that to the video. So you admit that Trudell was a tad bit over reactional in that video. It's nice to see you admit when you're wrong. Trudell went over board and I'm glad you can see that.

 

[mazHur]

according to asimov, violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, which would make those technologically superior people morally and intellectually inferior to those they overran.

Many technologically superior races once ruled greater part of the world building their colonies...all of them
had to leave sooner or later. What does this mean??? Technology is NOT a permanent weapon to win although it may partially contribute to some victory. Yes, in some context they do seem to overrun the vanquished, such as Japan. In a 1947 book published in the UK I read very sarcastic and degrading remarks about Japan by a British author who boasted that after the nuking of Nagasaki it would take centuries for Japan to recover!!
Much bad was said about China whom the British and their counter parts kept feeding with opium for a long time....now all can see where China stands in the International community....there can be many more example that could be cited...but it is clear that technological superiority does tend to loosen up morals and intellectual strings of the arrogant and oblivious victors.....without having them evaluate the same. Ironical indeed.