License to bully?

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The Man

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And that is why with all the cultures and diversity in my kids school there is a zero tolerance on bullying of any kind.. Actually I believe it applies to the whole area..
Zero tolerance here as well
But freedom of religion and moral beliefs is honored..A Jehovah Witness for example can excuse themselves from a birthday party.

{Which would coincide with the words in section 8 that people have objection to}
Its that freedom that allows them to do such.
Should that be taken away?
 
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doombug

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Seriously?
I take it you havent read any of the articles regarding the occurrence or the thread for that matter

Yes, I have read the law itself and don't see where any child is being "forced" to do anything. Could you quote this part of the law itself?
 

Francis

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Zero tolerance here as well
But freedom of religion and moral beliefs is honored..A Jehovah Witness for example can excuse themselves from a birthday party.

{Which would coincide with the words in section 8 that people have objection to}
Its that freedom that allows them to do such.
Should that be taken away?

Tell me what a "Birthday Party" has to do with the school curriculum or learning?

When I went to school in a CATHOLIC school we never celebrated birthdays in school at all..

My 7 year old son often has to excuse himself from "Birthday Parties" due to his deadly allergies to nuts. Personally I much prefer that they stop the practice of parties in class and got back to doing school work.. He attends all the OUT of school parties and is very popular kid in his class..
 

The Man

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Yes, I have read the law itself and don't see where any child is being "forced" to do anything. Could you quote this part of the law itself?


Are you having trouble following along?
By not allowing freedom or religion or moral beliefs {those that are in support of removal of the wording in section 8 }
This opens the avenue where a child is forced to go against his religion or moral beliefs.
As I stated earlier..it the extra words in the section that PREVENT the occurrence from happening again where the teacher violated the students rights....as the childs religion wasnt honored
So I will ask you this {as use of example }
Is it not ok for a Jehovah witness to state my religion doesn't support birthday parties?
 
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The Man

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Tell me what a "Birthday Party" has to do with the school curriculum or learning?

When I went to school in a CATHOLIC school we never celebrated birthdays in school at all..

My 7 year old son often has to excuse himself from "Birthday Parties" due to his deadly allergies to nuts. Personally I much prefer that they stop the practice of parties in class and got back to doing school work.. He attends all the OUT of school parties and is very popular kid in his class..

The question was
Should that freedom be taken away
Yes
No

Pick one
 

Francis

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The question was
Should that freedom be taken away
Yes
No

Pick one

What your asking is not to define freedom but rather to define freedom of religion, race or sexual preference?

To define freedom is to eliminate the above or any other basis that would give one an advantage over the other.

The closest you will ever get is when you realize that.. Once everyone is on the same playing field and with the same rules, you will have freedom not being taken away from one group for another..
 

The Man

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Should a child {Jehovah Witness} not be permitted to say."My religion doesnt support birthday parties?
Why avoid the question?
 

doombug

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Are you having trouble following along?

Not at all. I only see where the exemption for moral and religious beliefs part of the bill was removed. I don't see where any child is being forced to do anything. I do see where all children are expected to treat each other with some degree of respect.

By not allowing freedom or religion or moral beliefs {those that are in support of removal of the wording in section 8 }
This opens the avenue where a child is forced to go against his religion or moral beliefs.

Where are they not allowing freedom or religion or moral beliefs? Religion or moral beliefs aren't allowed to be used to bully a child. Where is there a child whose religious or moral beliefs involve bullying another child? Bullying is what isn't being allowed here.

As I stated earlier..it the extra words in the section that PREVENT the occurrence from happening again where the teacher violated the students rights....as the childs religion wasnt honored

You are using a strawman or strawchild as an example here. No student's rights were violated.

So I will ask you this {as use of example }
Is it not ok for a Jehovah witness to state my religion doesn't support birthday parties?

Where is any child forced to go to a birthday party. I had a friend in elementary school who was a Jehovah's witness and he didn't participate in many things. He didn't have to participate and wasn't "forced". Most of the time he sat by himself away from the activity and was quite disappointed I must say. I wonder if he is still a Jehovah's witness?
 

The Man

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Not at all. I only see where the exemption for moral and religious beliefs part of the bill was removed. I don't see where any child is being forced to do anything. I do see where all children are expected to treat each other with some degree of respect.



Where are they not allowing freedom or religion or moral beliefs? Religion or moral beliefs aren't allowed to be used to bully a child. Where is there a child whose religious or moral beliefs involve bullying another child? Bullying is what isn't being allowed here.



You are using a strawman or strawchild as an example here. No student's rights were violated.



Where is any child forced to go to a birthday party. I had a friend in elementary school who was a Jehovah's witness and he didn't participate in many things. He didn't have to participate and wasn't "forced". Most of the time he sat by himself away from the activity and was quite disappointed I must say. I wonder if he is still a Jehovah's witness?

Not at all. I only see where the exemption for moral and religious beliefs part of the bill was removed. I don't see where any child is being forced to do anything.
Which means that words were removed that allowed a child to make a statement regrading his religious or moral beliefs
Again..when we go back to the article regarding the teacher he VIOLATED the students rights by punishing the child for stating my religions doesnt support gays...He labeled the kid a bully when doing such..but in effect was the bully{teacher} and was punished for it.
One can not say the bills needs to be passed based upon the article and not support the words that were in section,when those words were there to Prevent the same from happening again.
Where are they not allowing freedom or religion or moral beliefs?
You gave me the link showing they had been removed.
Religion or moral beliefs aren't allowed to be used to bully a child.
Correct..and that is why the words were added...as they also included staff..as to PREVENT the same occurrence again.
Where is there a child whose religious or moral beliefs involve bullying another child?
That also includes pupil to pupil interactions......It happens..people have committed suicide over such...Which may go up
Bullying is what isn't being allowed here.
But it has been done by a teacher...those added words were meant to protect the 1st amendment.
You are using a strawman or strawchild as an example here. No student's rights were violated.
Read the articles..its is real..A teacher violated child's rights..the teacher was punished for such..The entire basis for the bill being written

Where is any child forced to go to a birthday party.
They arent when they are allowed to exercise their rights ...the unmodified bill allowed just that.
The liberals are throwing a fit as the unmodified bill allowed a child to state their religious beliefs or moral convictions...........It appears as if the dont want to allow a child be allowed to state.."I am a Jehovah witness and do not support Birthday parties...or my religion does not support gays and have them sit through gay support activities.


I had a friend in elementary school who was a Jehovah's witness and he didn't participate in many things.
As he exercised his rights
He didn't have to participate and wasn't "forced"
As it should be...his rights were protected.



What people are failing to understand is the words were added to protect both parties....With the example of a Jehovah Witness openly showing disapproval of certain activities by not particitating....."My religion does not approve"........Its the same as the child the teacher bullied when he said his religion did not approve .

The JH would not be a bully for "nosing the party" and they couldnt bully him for such nosing
 

The Man

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How could a child simply saying this be taken as bullying?

The same as the other child saying his religion didnt approve of gay support....{the teacher punished him as a bully}...then the teacher was punished for being a bully by VIOLATING his rights.
 

The Man

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Lets say a muslim boy says...dont eat the pork...dont eat it its unclean and not permitted you will go to hell

He isnt being a bully..he is only saying what he believes....and should be allowed to as such

The Baptist boy says...get out of town...my family eats pork all the time..We are baptists and nothing says we cant.
He should be allowed such response as well

If we take away that right...they both become bullies
The muslim boy for persecuting the baptist boy
The Baptist boy...for telling him..yes you can with "Get out of town"

Our rights are a great thing and should be preserved
Did you know than in some muslim nations its the death penalty for saying anything bad against islam?
Although that is extreme as used for an example........should one be punished at all given the fact they are not muslim?

Preserve you rights...its what allows you to be who you are and not what someone else says you should be

Anyway..I need to hit the sheets..its after 2 am here..got to get up early
 

darkcgi

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These bills being passed nowadays are from idiocracy
meaning there are some retarded people out there
Is this happening more because the smart people see the greed in politics and run away and the seemingly smart people go there
Thats my take
 

doombug

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Lets say a muslim boy says...dont eat the pork...dont eat it its unclean and not permitted you will go to hell

I didn't know school children had such conversations. But we can assume the situation. Discussing one's eating habits as it pertains to their religion doesn't fall under the law's definition of bullying....read the law.

He isnt being a bully..he is only saying what he believes....and should be allowed to as such

The law defines bullying and I don't think this would fall under the definition....read the law.

The Baptist boy says...get out of town...my family eats pork all the time..We are baptists and nothing says we cant.
He should be allowed such response as well

I don't see where the law prohibits him from responding this way....read the law.

If we take away that right...they both become bullies
The muslim boy for persecuting the baptist boy
The Baptist boy...for telling him..yes you can with "Get out of town"

Not by the definition of the law. Neither one are bullies by definition....read the law.

Our rights are a great thing and should be preserved
Did you know than in some muslim nations its the death penalty for saying anything bad against islam?
Although that is extreme as used for an example........should one be punished at all given the fact they are not muslim?

Our rights are a great thing but the right to bully someone shouldn't be one of them.

Preserve you rights...its what allows you to be who you are and not what someone else says you should be

Anyway..I need to hit the sheets..its after 2 am here..got to get up early

Yes? well maybe we need to make murder legal so serial killers can be who they really are and not who society tells them to be.
 

darkcgi

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My problem is the part of their religion that says if you dont obey the religion then you must be killed or punished by man
 

The Man

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I didn't know school children had such conversations. But we can assume the situation. Discussing one's eating habits as it pertains to their religion doesn't fall under the law's definition of bullying....read the law.



The law defines bullying and I don't think this would fall under the definition....read the law.



I don't see where the law prohibits him from responding this way....read the law.



Not by the definition of the law. Neither one are bullies by definition....read the law.



Our rights are a great thing but the right to bully someone shouldn't be one of them.



Yes? well maybe we need to make murder legal so serial killers can be who they really are and not who society tells them to be.

I didn't know school children had such conversations. But we can assume the situation.
That and worse..some children actually end up committing suicide
Discussing one's eating habits as it pertains to their religion doesn't fall under the law's definition of bullying
Sure it can..with the absence of offered protections...After all you are telling someone they are going to hell for their actions..Its a religious conflict..That you choose to strip away the protection.
The law defines bullying and I don't think this would fall under the definition....read the law.

You celebrated when section 8 was modified that limits protections...So which one is it?
I don't see where the law prohibits him from responding this way....read the law

Then why would you want to take away that right?
Not by the definition of the law. Neither one are bullies by definition
Not if you dont strip their rights...which you celebrated when section 8 was rewritten that removed those rights

Our rights are a great thing but the right to bully someone shouldn't be one of them.
Then why are you supportive of stripping rights that support the constitution...You fail to see both sides of the sword....seriously
Yes? well maybe we need to make murder legal so serial killers can be who they really are and not who society tells them to be.
You do understand that murder is not legal and isnt a protected right...correct?
However even the serial killer has rights...Perhaps you should brush up on America a little as to fully understand about the rights of an American and to better comment on the bully bill
 
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doombug

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That and worse..some children actually end up committing suicide

Some children do commit suicide but there is more involved than having a conversation. Often times bullying is involved which is the reason for the bill.

Sure it can..with the absence of offered protections...After all you are telling someone they are going to hell for their actions..Its a religious conflict..That you choose to strip away the protection.

The only protection being "stripped" away is protection for bullies.

You celebrated when section 8 was modified that limits protections...So which one is it?

I don't understand your confusion here but just to clarify: Yes, I think modifying section 8 was a good thing.

Then why would you want to take away that right?

Where is any right being "taken away"? Doesn't a child have a "right" to get an education without being bullied?

Not if you dont strip their rights...which you celebrated when section 8 was rewritten that removed those rights

Section 8 wasn't written to "remove" any rights. You are confused. Section 8 was modified and I am now raising a glass to toast and celebrate!

Then why are you supportive of stripping rights that support the constitution...You fail to see both sides of the sword....seriously

Seriously I don't have a problem with it. I don't see any rights in the Constitution being compromised.

You do understand that murder is not legal and isnt a protected right...correct?

Not only do I know it is illegal I also know it is wrong just a I know bullying someone is wrong as well.

However even the serial killer has rights...

Yes but not the right to murder someone.

Perhaps you should brush up on America a little as to fully understand about the rights of an American and to better comment on the bully bill

No doubt that free speech is important to you. It is to me as well. I just don't have a problem with the anti-bully bill and I don't believe it infringes on free speech. If you feel this strongly maybe you should exercise free speech and contact you state congress to express your concern. They may be able to explain their intent in passing this law.
 
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