License to bully?

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BornReady

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The religious right have lost the homophobia battle but they're not going down without a fight. The current generation of bigots will express their bigotry. The next generation will will learn to be quiet about it or no one will like them. The third generation will be over it. The fourth generation will claim conservative Christians were never homophobic. It's just a liberal tactic to make conservative Christians look bad.
 
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Panacea

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Actually your muslim examples shows it best...its a win for the liberals.
Another protection for specialized groups
We must remember we whine,,we get legislation..not always for the best.

It's not a win for liberals; conservatives are proposing it. They wouldn't propose anything that liberals would approve of. You're so confused :p

This was designed to protect bigots. Don't get it twisted.


They are not bullies for expressing themselves{bottom line}

And it's bullshit.

Would you rather inhibits freedom of beliefs?....not saying you do...I am just flipping the coin
As we can see...that if Little Ted said you will rot in hell for banging Toms ass he would be labeled a bully

1193427b201a87f994d24a0b4d4102c0.jpg
 

The Man

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It's not a win for liberals; conservatives are proposing it. They wouldn't propose anything that liberals would approve of. You're so confused :p

This was designed to protect bigots. Don't get it twisted.




And it's bullshit.



1193427b201a87f994d24a0b4d4102c0.jpg

Because someone doesn't believe in fucking a cat doesnt make em a bigot.
The policy while presented by a conservative,,is just that...but since its special interest,,,its a liberal policy
Had it been presented by a democrat,,the liberals would be jumping for joy on this.
 

Panacea

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Because someone doesn't believe in fucking a cat doesnt make em a bigot.
The policy while presented by a conservative,,is just that...but since its special interest,,,its a liberal policy
Had it been presented by a democrat,,the liberals would be jumping for joy on this.

Your example is so horrible for this legislation, but if that student harasses another student because they don't share that belief, it's bullying. It shouldn't be protected just because it's a religious belief.

Liberal. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
 

The Man

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Your example is so horrible for this legislation, but if that student harasses another student because they don't share that belief, it's bullying. It shouldn't be protected just because it's a religious belief.

Liberal. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
That goes both ways.
Ted says you will go to hell for being a thief......he is not considered a bully
Ralph and Tom are not permitted to bully Ted for his beliefs on thievery
Its basically just a reinforcement of freedoms we already have.....One can express his beliefs without persecution.
It actually unfolded very beautifully...and is a well balanced addition to existing laws.
The only other alternative is to do away with all the laws regarding such.{which I have no problem with}
When I went to school decades ago..it was essentially against the rules to bully..
It has never been permitted..rude behavior was dealt with accordingly ....Whether it was calling someone fat or a racial slur.


But...is that even proper..after all freedom of speech and expression should be available...{Mind you I do not approve of a bully}...but does he have the legal right to say what he wants in a public place such as a school.
No...as he cant cuss..and must keep his mouth shut during certain times...so in effect censoring was already taking place.
The point is there isnt a bully problem...where actually there is...but you cant fix it
Shutting ones mouth will only cause him to put a tack in the others chair.
Sad reality is you cant make someone like another if he chooses not to...As long as it don't become physical no harm is done.
That is where the law was basically at...until whining ensued that began the furthering of legislation.
There is no line as to what can constitute someone being a bully...there are endless ways to bully.
Whats next?..He looked at me?
Ran to the water fountain when he knew I was headed there?
Didnt offer me his fries but threw them away?
Cant speak of religion of cultural differences at all?
Or worse has to accept them..or be declared a bully.
Its an area that should have never been ventured without a clean line to establish
 
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Panacea

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Its basically just a reinforcement of freedoms we already have.....One can express his beliefs without persecution.

Freedoms. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. A lot of people are confused about what freedom of speech actually refers/relates to. Give it a look up, it's pretty neat.

If a student has a belief the entire student body should be engulfed in flames (for extreme instance), and expresses it, said student will face persecution.

People have varying definitions of bullying of course, and bullying actions should be viewed on a continuum to determine consequences. I feel that continuum should be uniform in the school system, and include behaviors driven by religious/moral stances, because they're no different than those driven by anything else.

I'm putting you on ignore now. I value my time/intelligence and can't bear to read/respond to any more idiotic comments :p
You never ever seem to say anything of value whatsoever, and it makes me mean dealing with you.
God bless.
 

The Man

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thing..
Freedoms. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. A lot of people are confused about what freedom of speech actually refers/relates to. Give it a look up, it's pretty neat.

If a student has a belief the entire student body should be engulfed in flames (for extreme instance), and expresses it, said student will face persecution.

People have varying definitions of bullying of course, and bullying actions should be viewed on a continuum to determine consequences. I feel that continuum should be uniform in the school system, and include behaviors driven by religious/moral stances, because they're no different than those driven by anything else.

I'm putting you on ignore now. I value my time/intelligence and can't bear to read/respond to any more idiotic comments :p
You never ever seem to say anything of value whatsoever, and it makes me mean dealing with you.
God bless.

Freedoms. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. A lot of people are confused about what freedom of speech actually refers/relates to. Give it a look up, it's pretty neat.
If you think its pretty neat..then why are you against it?

If a student has a belief the entire student body should be engulfed in flames (for extreme instance), and expresses it, said student will face persecution.

And they will be prosecuted under others laws.........Seriously if you think the new legislation allows of murder ....your extreme confusion on the topic can be understood....Your statement makes no sense..unless it is a rhetorical statement and then it is comical at best

People have varying definitions of bullying of course
I stated that already.........And no setting students on fire isnt allowed under the new law as you mentioned prior.
I feel that continuum should be uniform in the school system,
I already mentioned that as well.
and include behaviors driven by religious/moral stances, because they're no different than those driven by anything else.

Like setting other students on fire?.....as said that is covered under other laws...your fears are unfounded....and actually somewhat comical.
Murder assaults etc are already covered under other laws...They will not be exempt from prosecution from such crimes.



I'm putting you on ignore now. I value my time/intelligence and can't bear to read/respond to any more idiotic comments :p
You never ever seem to say anything of value whatsoever, and it makes me mean dealing with you.
God bless
Please do..your posts appear to be nothing except a rambling of something akin to a far left or right news agency.
'The new law would allow students to set others afire'.....what a riot...if you actually believe such{especially after several explanations have been provided} to show the intent of the law then you need to re evaluate your definition of "time/intelligence"...sure isnt showing on this end
 
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The Man

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Again...from the article

.............................................................

“It does no such thing,” Glenn said in response to a series of email questions from Michigan Messenger. “The religious free speech protections included in the bill, consistent with the First Amendment, simply ensure that students won’t be bullied or punished — as occurred last year at a high school in Howell — for daring to say they believe a certain behavior is wrong as a matter of sincerely held religious or moral conviction. The First Amendment and other free speech protections do just that, protect free speech, not bullying. And students, like all other Americans, are free to verbally express their opinions — including religious and moral views — without fear of government repression or persecution, including under anti-bullying or harrassment laws.”

.................................................................


Pretty fucking simple...whats to not understand?
 

doombug

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Passing a law against bullying but then making an exception for moral and religious reasons makes no sense. Bullying is wrong for whatever reason and besides whatever happened to seperation of church and state? This "exception" to the rule is just creating a loophole for bullies to use.
 

Panacea

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Passing a law against bullying but then making an exception for moral and religious reasons makes no sense. Bullying is wrong for whatever reason and besides whatever happened to seperation of church and state? This "exception" to the rule is just creating a loophole for bullies to use.

I agree. It makes no sense whatsoever for there to be any exception to bully. Every bully has a "belief" that makes it "ok" in their opinion to do what they do. Not good enough.
 

The Man

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It appears as if some are not aware why the the legislation is being pushed.
A TEACHER bullied a child....The Teacher was suspended for his actions.
The Teacher wore a purple shirt to show his support of gays on anti bully day.
The BULLY TEACHER made a student remove a confederate flag belt buckle.
Two children asked that if expressions are not allowed then why are you wearing the purple shirt.
The children were wrongfully disciplined....As a result the TEACHER was rightfully disciplined.

So lets put this in your household...with your children.
Your child goes to school.
A Bully Teacher makes your son remove his confederate belt buckle.
The teacher is wearing a purple t shirt to show gay support.

I would have went to the school and slapped the fuck out of his punk ass for being a bully to my child...Number one
Number two...I would have politely told him that if he tries to force gay acceptance on my child again that I will smash his fucking nose.
Number 3...I dont give a fuck about him and his gay beliefs..keep em to himself...out of the school I pay taxes for.


I honestly dont give a shit if someone is gay...I really dont...but dont shove it down the throats of our children.
I dont give a fuck about anyones religion...dont force it down the throats of our children.

Parenting is parenting
Teaching is teaching
Teachers dont need to parent.
But it is ok for a parent to teach;)

No go to your child and tell him if he wants to wear a cross he can..and if a teacher says anything you will go kick his ass.
Same for that Kidrock t-shirt he likes so well.
Dig deep into your soul and search within for conservative values........Stand up for your child :thumbup
 

The Man

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n
If you want the real story about the teacher read it yourself..

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-11-16-michigan-teacher-suspended-gay_N.htm



Also here is Graeme Taylor YouTube video that was posted from the school board meeting where is talked about this teacher.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJBvdfdAQjs

Its basically the same stories I have read and commented on..the only difference being he told a girl to remove her belt buckle rather than a boy.....Makes little difference........The fact remains he made a student take off the belt buckle..The stories vary slightly on the internet..the link you posted regards the bully teachers version in quotes...and by his own story is guilty ..To be honest as a parent it would piss me off worse to pick on a daughter than a son...The slap would be harder....as you made my daughter remove part of her attire in front of class


As far as the video...its a gay boy from another area in the state and has nothing to do with it........he is merely a gay activist that has been involved with other instances.
He is not a witness or a professional on the matter...Just a kid that in all essence is attempting to force gay acceptance as a gay activist.....sharp kid..but nothing of material.

The facts still remain the same
The teacher bullied a child for wearing a belt buckle while he expressed himself with his attire.
The teacher took objection to the belt buckle and injected biased perceptions while doing such.
The teacher was found to be in the wrong and was punished for his actions...as he violated the childrens right to free speech.

The bill as written is very tough on bullying...the part that everyone is throwing a fit about is section 8...which guarantees that the bill doesn't abridge{violate or lessen} the first amendment of the constitution...nor the state constitution
Moral convictions or religious beliefs have always been allowed expression...and shall stay the same.
Thus the bill would have trouble and need a revision anyway if improperly written


-----------------------------------------------------------------------


(8) This section does not abridge the rights under the First



Amendment of the constitution of the United States or under article



I of the state constitution of 1963 of a school employee, school



volunteer, pupil, or a pupil's parent or guardian. This section



does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief



or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil,



or a pupil's parent or guardian.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------




As we can see its direction is clear as is written as such as to not violate the constitution.


In a nutshell what this means is...../I will use Tom and Harry for examples.

Tom says..its ok to be gay...go ahead suck a dick..it wont hurt you..there is nothing wrong with it...Gays are people too.

Harry says No...My dad would beat my ass because its wrong..and the preacher says we will rot in hell


Harry shouldnt have to accept Toms belief and fear persecution for not agreeing.

Its no different than a Jehovah witness stepping out of class during a birthday party.
No different than not having to say god in the pledge of allegiance.
No different than passing on pork at lunch time.

A child shouldnt have to sit in class and partake in beliefs against his own.
That would be akin to being in the mideast..and learning about islam whether you like it or not.

In America you dont have to support religion or anything else for that matter....certainly not homosexuality.
 
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Francis

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In America you dont have to support religion or anything else for that matter....certainly not homosexuality.

All I posted was the article and the video from the article..

But your quote says everything about you.. It's not America that has a problem with homosexuality, it's you..
 

The Man

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All I posted was the article and the video from the article..

But your quote says everything about you.. It's not America that has a problem with homosexuality, it's you..

Incorrect
I have stated several places on the board that I have no issues with homosexuality.
My statement is in regards to protection for children that dont approve of it due to religion or other instilled value system.

Additionally...you posted the link which brought the perception that \if one wanted the truth..they should read the following/
Fact is nothing rebutted any wrong doing by the teacher in the link....It only reinforced my position that he was wrong..by his own admission.
Thanks.
As far as the video...Immaterial to the discussion at hand...the boy wasnt present and is merely a gay activist...Just as well have been some the boy from across the street that was flipping burgers that day...neither was there and have no material to present as to the occurrence.
 

The Man

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I am neither left or right...I will stand up for either..dependent upon the situation.
This time however the liberals are off the hook as they are against the support of the constitution.
A well written anti bully bill is written and the libs cry fowl
Why?
Because the GOP represent it...No more No less.
Some website writes an article and pow they go to work repeating the same imaginary perceptions.
Is it their fault?.........No
They are only being loyal to their party regardless of the issue at hand....Both do it.
But this time the libs are really reaching

No one wants bullies at school....the gop introduced tough legislation to prevent such and they just have to whine and whine.

The bill is below and as we can see its very tough....

The libs pick out a few words that protect the constitution and they throw a fit

Amazing
-----------------------------------------------------------------
SB-0137, As Passed Senate, November 2, 2011

SUBSTITUTE FOR


SENATE BILL NO. 137


A bill to amend 1976 PA 451, entitled

"The revised school code,"

(MCL 380.1 to 380.1852) by adding section 1310b.

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF MICHIGAN ENACT:



Sec. 1310b. (1) Not later than 6 months after the effective

date of this section, the board of a school district or

intermediate school district or board of directors of a public

school academy shall adopt and implement a policy prohibiting

bullying by pupils at school, as defined in this section.

(2) Before adopting the policy required under subsection (1),

the board or board of directors shall hold at least 1 public

hearing on the proposed policy. This public hearing may be held as

part of a regular board meeting. Not later than 30 days after


adopting the policy, the board or board of directors shall submit a

copy of its policy to the department.

(3) Not later than 1 year after the effective date of this

section, the department shall submit a report to the senate and

house standing committees on education summarizing the status of

the implementation of policies under this section.

(4) A policy adopted pursuant to subsection (1) shall include

at least all of the following:

(a) A statement prohibiting bullying of a pupil.

(b) A statement prohibiting a false accusation of bullying.

(c) A statement prohibiting retaliation or false accusation

against a target of bullying, a witness, or another person with

reliable information about an act of bullying.

(d) A provision indicating that all pupils are protected under

the policy and that bullying is equally prohibited without regard

to its subject matter or motivating animus.

(e) The identification by job title of school officials

responsible for ensuring that the policy is implemented.

(f) A statement describing how the policy is to be publicized.

The policy shall include at least a requirement that notice of the

policy be provided to parents, guardians, staff, volunteers, and

pupils annually, with age-appropriate language for pupils, and a

requirement that the policy be included in all pupil and employee

handbooks and posted on the school district's or public school's

website.

(g) A procedure for providing notification to the parent or

legal guardian of a reported victim of bullying and the parent or


legal guardian of an alleged perpetrator of the bullying on the

same day as school officials become aware of the bullying. The

policy may provide that if the bullying occurs outside school

hours, this notification will be made on the next school day.

(h) A statement that the policy applies on school premises, on

a school bus or other school-related vehicle, or at a school-

sponsored activity or event whether or not it is held on school

premises.

(i) A statement that the policy applies to conduct using a

telecommunications access device or telecommunications service

provider, regardless of whether the conduct occurs on or off school

premises, if the telecommunications access device or the

telecommunications service provider is owned by or under the

control of the school district or public school academy.

(j) A procedure for reporting an act of bullying or a false

accusation of bullying.

(k) A requirement that any school employee who has reliable

information that would lead a reasonable person to suspect that a

pupil is a target of bullying or to suspect a false accusation of

bullying shall immediately report it to the principal or the

principal's designee.

(l) A procedure for prompt investigation of a report of

violation of the policy or a related complaint, identifying either

the principal or the principal's designee as the person responsible

for the investigation.

(m) A procedure for each public school to document any

prohibited incident that is reported and a procedure to report all


verified incidents of bullying and the resulting consequences,

including discipline and referrals, to the board of the school

district or intermediate school district or board of directors of

the public school academy on an annual basis.

(n) A description of possible consequences and appropriate

remedial action for a pupil who commits an act of bullying. This

portion of the policy shall include a provision that formal

disciplinary action shall not be taken solely on the basis of an

anonymous report.

(o) A description of possible consequences and appropriate

remedial action for a pupil who is determined to have knowingly

made a false accusation of bullying against 1 or more other pupils.

The possible consequences and remedial action for a false

accusation of bullying shall be the same as for an act of bullying.

This portion of the policy shall include a provision that formal

disciplinary action shall not be taken solely on the basis of an

anonymous report.

(p) A description of possible consequences and appropriate

remedial action for a pupil who is determined to have knowingly

falsely accused another as a means of retaliation or reprisal or as

a means of bullying.

(q) A strategy for providing, as necessary, counseling or

referral to appropriate services, including guidance, academic

intervention, and protection, for targets of bullying, perpetrators

of bullying, other pupils, and appropriate family members involved

in or affected by bullying or a false accusation of bullying.

(5) The legislature encourages a board or board of directors


to include all of the following in the policy required under this

section:

(a) Provisions to form bullying prevention task forces,
programs, teen courts, and other initiatives involving school

staff, pupils, school clubs or other student groups,

administrators, volunteers, parents, law enforcement, community

members, and other stakeholders.


(b) A requirement for periodic training for administrators,
school employees, and volunteers who have significant contact with

pupils on preventing, identifying, responding to, and reporting

incidents of bullying.


(c) A requirement for educational programs for pupils and
parents on preventing, identifying, responding to, and reporting

incidents of bullying.


(6) A school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or parent or
guardian who promptly reports in good faith an act of bullying or a

false accusation of bullying to the appropriate school official

designated in the school district's or public school academy's

policy and who makes this report in compliance with the procedures

set forth in the policy is immune from a cause of action for

damages arising out of the reporting itself or any failure to

remedy the reported incident.


(7) This section does not prevent a person from seeking any
other civil or criminal redress available under law.


(8) This section does not abridge the rights under the First
Amendment of the constitution of the United States or under article

I of the state constitution of 1963 of a school employee, school

volunteer, pupil, or a pupil's parent or guardian. This section


does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief

or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil,

or a pupil's parent or guardian.
 

The Man

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And the rest

I couldnt fit it all in one post due to character limitations

(9) This section applies only to conduct by a pupil directed
at 1 or more other pupils and, except as expressly provided in this
section, does not apply to conduct by any other person, including,
but not limited to, a school employee, a school volunteer who is
not a pupil, or a pupil's parent or guardian.
(10) As used in this section:
(a) "At school" means in a classroom, elsewhere on school
premises, on a school bus or other school-related vehicle, or at a
school-sponsored activity or event whether or not it is held on
school premises. "At school" includes conduct using a
telecommunications access device or telecommunications service
provider that occurs off school premises if the telecommunications
access device or the telecommunications service provider is owned
by or under the control of the school district or public school
academy.

(b) "Bullying" means any written, verbal, or physical act, or
any electronic communication, by a pupil directed at 1 or more
other pupils that is intended or that a reasonable person would
know is likely to harm 1 or more pupils either directly or
indirectly by doing any of the following:
(i) Substantially interfering with educational opportunities,
benefits, or programs of 1 or more pupils.
(ii) Substantially and adversely affecting the ability of a
pupil to participate in or benefit from the school district's or
public school's educational programs or activities by placing the
pupil in reasonable fear of physical harm
(iii) Having an actual and substantial detrimental effect on a
pupil's physical or mental health or causing substantial emotional
distress.
(iv) Causing substantial disruption in, or substantial
interference with, the orderly operation of the school.
(c) "Telecommunications access device" and "telecommunications
service provider" mean those terms as defined in section 219a of
the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.219a.
(11) This section shall be known as "Matt's Safe School Law".
 

The Man

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Seriously...to find fault with this is merely falling for the far lefts shit stirring...one should look at news sources objectively and not selectively
;)

But we have all been fooled before..
This one is busted
 

Francis

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Incorrect
I have stated several places on the board that I have no issues with homosexuality.

Yes I did post the link.

I also did not just post a whole quoted item but rather the actual link and did not superimpose my bias opinion in the mix.

Stating what you think your views are and what your true views are can be totally different things. I highly recommend you go back and look at your own posts in the 100 pound scrotum. Some of your comments were pretty telling.. And not only that but I think I will end my conversation with you because I realized after reading that thread that you have hardly have any comprehension skills..
 

The Man

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Yes I did post the link.

I also did not just post a whole quoted item but rather the actual link and did not superimpose my bias opinion in the mix.

Stating what you think your views are and what your true views are can be totally different things. I highly recommend you go back and look at your own posts in the 100 pound scrotum. Some of your comments were pretty telling.. And not only that but I think I will end my conversation with you because I realized after reading that thread that you have hardly have any comprehension skills..

You stated your opinion when you stated

If you want the real story about the teacher read it yourself..
Said link only supported my position.

As far as the 100 pound scrotum thread...you missed the sarcasm..I also stated in the thread I was being sarcastic.
I also had doubts as to whether the condition was true or not
I also attempted to contact the afflicted to get the story straight from the source rather than rely on conflicting news sources/ as to make decision as to whether or not I would donate.
Said person did not repond
Said person was signed in with Yahoo services at time of contact
Account is active..but no responses are made from that account.
My position is still the same....something is a little fishy...and will be treated accordingly
 
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