How Americans Continue to Relegate Themselves to Serfdom

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Johnfromokc

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It will sort itself out on its own.

How's it working out so far?

Never said I did.

Oh - you have no answers, but you somehow know that a universal system where people are not bankrupted because of astronomical medical bills they could never pay if they lived 200 years could never work - despite the FACT it works in every other first world nation that has it.

But you could start by dropping the restrictions on where insurance companies can sell their insurance. That would increase competition to make their product more attractive and affordable to more people.

So allowing health insurance companies who have driven up costs and make massive profits by disallowing payment for life saving care that results in millions of bankruptcies to have even less regulation will work? Such a simple solution. Brilliant.

Also, since a lot of health problems is from our over-eating, sedentary lifestyle, we need a change in culture.

But in the meanwhile, until this cultural enlightenment occurs - deregulate insurance companies even more (they will of course always do what is right by the premium payers ;) ) and let the unhealthy lard asses with diabetes die if they can't get insurance.

So thats your plan, right?
 
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All Else Failed

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How's it working out so far?

Sort of meh

Doing what I said to insurance companies would help




Oh - you have no answers, but you somehow know that a universal system where people are not bankrupted because of astronomical medical bills they could never pay if they lived 200 years could never work - despite the FACT it works in every other first world nation that has it.

You go from one extreme to another. I never said I have all of the answers, and now you say I have no answers. You need to stop trying to try to scheme yourself into trying to make someone look bad and have a normal conversation.

Sure, single payer can work, but you're also looking at countries with totally different situations, demographics, population numbers and culture. Even if it does work, there are still problems with it and just because it may work, doesn't mean it should be done.


So allowing health insurance companies who have driven up costs and make massive profits by disallowing payment for life saving care that results in millions of bankruptcies to have even less regulation will work? Such a simple solution. Brilliant.
They have mostly done this because they can monopolize in the areas in which they sell their insurance, with little competition. Drop the barriers and let them compete on a national scale. It is not less regulation, it is the market forcing them to make their product more attractive to people. That is brilliant.


But in the meanwhile, until this cultural enlightenment occurs - deregulate insurance companies even more (they will of course always do what is right by the premium payers ;) ) and let the unhealthy lard asses with diabetes die if they can't get insurance.

So thats your plan, right?

No, you are mischaracterizing my plan because you have a self interest in seeming like the Big Guy On The Block who likes to spread leftist dogma.
 

Accountable

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Article 1, Section 8: The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States
Somebody on another forum I frequent just used this to justify outlawing incandescent light bulbs! :24:
 

Tim

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But you could start by dropping the restrictions on where insurance companies can sell their insurance. That would increase competition to make their product more attractive and affordable to more people.

This right here tells me you know nothing about insurance and how it works.

Please explain to me how opening up new markets will increase competition. How many states do you think Blue Cross is in? These insurance companies already sell in every state they want to.

Now let me explain how it really works.

Networks, it is networks that drop the prices for the insurance company and customer.
I have Aetna Insurance and I must get my care locally in order to be fully covered because the insurance company is paying a discounted price. If I drive two counties away to see a specialist, I will be out of network and will pay out of pocket.

Aetna has made a deal with all of the hospitals in my area to form a network. The hospitals are guaranteed that those of us in this network will use these hospitals that have contracted with Aetna. In return, they get heavily discounted rates. Volume buying if you will.
Now say the regulations are lifted and I can purchase insurance from Wisconsin... Why the hell would I? They will be paying the hospitals in my area full rate which in turn will make my premiums higher than they are. How can they guarantee these same hospitals around me the volume that my network does? They won't be able to get the same discounts as local insurance.

So how exactly does an insurance company 3 states over compete with the local one that has heavily discounted rates from the hospitals I will be going to?

You can open all the state lines you want, it won't drive prices down one red cent. These companies already sell in any state they want and set up local networks to maximize profits/discounts.
 

All Else Failed

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hese insurance companies already sell in every state they want to.

No they don't


Please explain to me how opening up new markets will increase competition. How many states do you think Blue Cross is in?

More people will have more choice to shop around. This would make insurance companies want to compete in order to save customers. Hospital deals would follow accordingly.



So how exactly does an insurance company 3 states over compete with the local one that has heavily discounted rates from the hospitals I will be going to?

If your insurance has discounted rates at your local hospitals, then they don't compete since you are probably fine with your discounts.

if you do not have discounts, there would be a national discounts hospitals could take.
 

Tim

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Somebody on another forum I frequent just used this to justify outlawing incandescent light bulbs! :24:

Incandescent light bulbs have been banned?

Nope, but I guess it's fun to think that...
Just another right wing talking point where no one bothers to see if it's true.
You actually shock me, I've always thought you smarter than that.
 

Accountable

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Incandescent light bulbs have been banned?

Nope, but I guess it's fun to think that...
Just another right wing talking point where no one bothers to see if it's true.
You actually shock me, I've always thought you smarter than that.
Yeh, that's the point.
slap.gif

The federal restrictions that de facto ban incandescent light bulbs. Happy?
 

Guyzerr

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It's a heartwarming display of respect for the environment when y'all do it, but a gross infringement of personal liberty when it's done here. We're so fucked up :p

Actually fluorescent bulbs we are forced to use now are much worse for the environment than incandescent light bulbs ever were but we can save that for a different thread.
 

Francis

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HA...don;t get me started on fluro lights.:mad

I agree...

If people were thinking ahead they would move to LED lights not only for the safety aspect but also for the overall cost savings in the lifetime of the bulb..

Fluro Lights have so much mercury in them its scary and they never performed as expected..
 

Accountable

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It's a heartwarming display of respect for the environment when y'all do it, but a gross infringement of personal liberty when it's done here. We're so fucked up :p
It would be heartwarming if it were being done voluntarily, but since it being done by force of law, it's tyranny.
 

Tim

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This guy is either unaware how the health insurance industry works, is lying through his teeth or is nothing more than a mouth piece for the right wing nut jobs.

I would really like you to address the networks, how they can drive prices down and how allowing me to buy insurance 4 states over can benefit me in any reasonable way.

You seem to be smart enough to understand basic business concepts...
 

cam elle toe

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I agree...

If people were thinking ahead they would move to LED lights not only for the safety aspect but also for the overall cost savings in the lifetime of the bulb..

Fluro Lights have so much mercury in them its scary and they never performed as expected..

I hate the fucking things. Wherever I have worked, I've always either managed to have them replaced, or at lease halved (Only 1 Instead of 2 fluro bulbs in each bay)
They give me the worst headaches.
 
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