Hillary's Grand idea........

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GraceAbounds

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The amount of bonuses military personnel get is astounding, and it comes from my tax money too, which most likely costs tax payers more than 2 billion a year. Probably much like this 5grand/kid every year will come from; my taxes.
I am actually going to take issue with this statement. :rant:
Our men and women in uniform are grossly underpaid.
Personally, I consider it an honor for my taxes to pay these men and women that are willing to put their life on the line for my safety and freedom.
 
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Peter Parka

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I am actually going to take issue with this statement. :rant:
Our men and women in uniform are grossly underpaid.
Personally, I consider it an honor for my taxes to pay these men and women that are willing to put their life on the line for my safety and freedom.

Me too, but I think education is also important and something which improves it is a good thing too.
 

All Else Failed

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I am actually going to take issue with this statement. :rant:
Our men and women in uniform are grossly underpaid.
Personally, I consider it an honor for my taxes to pay these men and women that are willing to put their life on the line for my safety and freedom.
Well, shouldn't it also be an honor to help a future teacher/doctor/police officer/firefighter out as well?
 

TheOriginalJames

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I am actually going to take issue with this statement. :rant:
Our men and women in uniform are grossly underpaid.
Personally, I consider it an honor for my taxes to pay these men and women that are willing to put their life on the line for my safety and freedom.

I'm not complaining about them being overpaid, (because they're not... don't put those words in my mouth) ... but I think a 20 grand sign on bonus is a little bit much. Paychecks are one thing, bonuses to go to a worthless war (Even donnie lost faith in this government and war) are another.

I appreciate what they do, but we shouldn't be over there in the first place. We shouldn't be policing the world.

We should be worrying about what goes on WITHIN our borders first and foremost.
 

TheOriginalJames

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I'm talking about free money. A "Bonus" is free money, a new recruit that signs up and receives and extra 20 grand in his bank account is no different than a child receiving a credit for 5000 dollars in an 18 year IRA to put towards his education.

What's the difference? The serviceman goes and defends his country, the child grows up and becomes an accountant, or a doctor, or a psychiatrist that will help future generations.

They both help the country, question is, which one do you think is more important?
 

dt3

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I'm not complaining about them being overpaid, (because they're not... don't put those words in my mouth) ... but I think a 20 grand sign on bonus is a little bit much. Paychecks are one thing, bonuses to go to a worthless war (Even donnie lost faith in this government and war) are another.

I appreciate what they do, but we shouldn't be over there in the first place. We shouldn't be policing the world.

We should be worrying about what goes on WITHIN our borders first and foremost.
Fucking massive negative there, James. I believe that if we could've solved this without losing any lives, including people who I considered friends, then that option should've been explored.

I have never, and will never, say that we shouldn't be in Iraq. I'm disappointed that's what you took from my posts in that thread.

I firmly believe, to state it simply, "we broke it, we bought it". We have a responsibility to the Iraqi people to rebuild a stable government.

I am the exact opposite of disillusioned. A week ago I got a job offer repairing Unmanned Aerial Vehicles that would include 3 month rotations to Iraq and back. Ask Amber. I REALLY wanted to take that job. I'd take it tomorrow if it was only up to me.

In fact, since I've gotten back from Iraq and out of the Marine Corps, I've been feeling guilty. Guilty that I have friends still over there fighting the fight, while I'm sitting here comfortable with my 7-3 job where the biggest decision of my day is deciding if I'm getting gas before or after work.

Part of me WANTED to reenlist. Part of me WANTS to be back over there. But it's not all up to me now.

I'm not disillusioned, I merely believe the military option should always be a last resort.
 

Maulds

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So every child that is born and receives this is guaranteed to be an accountant, doctor, or psychiatrist? Just because the money is waiting for them, doesn't mean it will be used wisely.
 

GraceAbounds

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A "Bonus" is free money, a new recruit that signs up and receives and extra 20 grand in his bank account is no different than a child receiving a credit for 5000 dollars in an 18 year IRA to put towards his education.

What's the difference?
The difference is that that particular job specialty is undermanned and the military needs to fill those specialties. So instead of having a draft and forcing people into those spots, they pay a bonus to those that are qualified and willing to do it.

The serviceman goes and defends his country, the child grows up and becomes an accountant, or a doctor, or a psychiatrist that will help future generations.

They both help the country, question is, which one do you think is more important?
They are both important, that isn't the issue here.

And I don't know why I am even arguing this as I am not against it or for it. LOL!

I've just read so much in this thread I am feeling compelled to POST! :p
 

TheOriginalJames

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If I knew I had 10 grand waiting for me, I'd take my ass to school. I'm sure this idea will do more good than bad.

I doubt they're going to just let 18 year olds withdraw it so they can have one hell of a beer and pizza party.
 

dt3

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I'm talking about free money. A "Bonus" is free money, a new recruit that signs up and receives and extra 20 grand in his bank account is no different than a child receiving a credit for 5000 dollars in an 18 year IRA to put towards his education.

What's the difference? The serviceman goes and defends his country, the child grows up and becomes an accountant, or a doctor, or a psychiatrist that will help future generations.

They both help the country, question is, which one do you think is more important?
Can you think of a better way to get people to sign up to go to Iraq and disarm IED's for a year? Believe it or not, they've got a pretty big turnover rate in that job.
 

GraceAbounds

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Fucking massive negative there, James. I believe that if we could've solved this without losing any lives, including people who I considered friends, then that option should've been explored.

I have never, and will never, say that we shouldn't be in Iraq. I'm disappointed that's what you took from my posts in that thread.

I firmly believe, to state it simply, "we broke it, we bought it". We have a responsibility to the Iraqi people to rebuild a stable government.

I am the exact opposite of disillusioned. A week ago I got a job offer repairing Unmanned Aerial Vehicles that would include 3 month rotations to Iraq and back. Ask Amber. I REALLY wanted to take that job. I'd take it tomorrow if it was only up to me.

In fact, since I've gotten back from Iraq and out of the Marine Corps, I've been feeling guilty. Guilty that I have friends still over there fighting the fight, while I'm sitting here comfortable with my 7-3 job where the biggest decision of my day is deciding if I'm getting gas before or after work.

Part of me WANTED to reenlist. Part of me WANTS to be back over there. But it's not all up to me now.

I'm not disillusioned, I merely believe the military option should always be a last resort.
A most excellent post Donnie. Almost brought a tear to my eye. You served and I thank you. Now it is time for you to serve your family and let another service member pay it forward for you. I've said it once and I'll say it again. Thank you so much for your service Donnie.
 

TheOriginalJames

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The difference is that that particular job specialty is undermanned and the military needs to fill those specialties. So instead of having a draft and forcing people into those spots, they pay a bonus to those that are qualified and willing to do it.


They are both important, that isn't the issue here.

And I don't know why I am even arguing this as I am not against it or for it. LOL!

I've just read so much in this thread I am feeling compelled to POST! :p

yes, the military is understaffed. With wars like Iraq and afghanistan, where what is it, 4% of the country agrees with congress and the presidents approval rating is low as hell, would you willingly sign up to go fight in a pointless war?

If you want to join the military, getting a free 20 grand shouldn't be your motivation to do it.

Both are important, but it seems as if any idea that's brought up is shot down because "it costs too much money".

How in the hell do we propose to fix the problem with education in this country if the country shoots down EVERY single idea that's brought up because "it costs too much money"?

That seems to be, for the most part, what Donnie doesn't like about it; the dollar signs.

The education system is broken in this country, and doing nothing about it gets no one anywhere.
 

TheOriginalJames

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Can you think of a better way to get people to sign up to go to Iraq and disarm IED's for a year? Believe it or not, they've got a pretty big turnover rate in that job.

But what I'm saying is - why are we spending money and losing lives policing the world based on what was proven to be false intelligence instead of fixing OUR problems?

Is fixing the problems in Iraq a more worthy cause than fixing our own problems?

I'm all for the rebuilding stage and getting our guys the fuck out of there, but 3000+ needless deaths have already occured. The damage is done, and the guys come home to news stories of gang crime, beatings, rapes, murders, robberies, etc.
 

All Else Failed

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Fucking massive negative there, James. I believe that if we could've solved this without losing any lives, including people who I considered friends, then that option should've been explored.

I have never, and will never, say that we shouldn't be in Iraq. I'm disappointed that's what you took from my posts in that thread.

I firmly believe, to state it simply, "we broke it, we bought it". We have a responsibility to the Iraqi people to rebuild a stable government.

I am the exact opposite of disillusioned. A week ago I got a job offer repairing Unmanned Aerial Vehicles that would include 3 month rotations to Iraq and back. Ask Amber. I REALLY wanted to take that job. I'd take it tomorrow if it was only up to me.

In fact, since I've gotten back from Iraq and out of the Marine Corps, I've been feeling guilty. Guilty that I have friends still over there fighting the fight, while I'm sitting here comfortable with my 7-3 job where the biggest decision of my day is deciding if I'm getting gas before or after work.

Part of me WANTED to reenlist. Part of me WANTS to be back over there. But it's not all up to me now.

I'm not disillusioned, I merely believe the military option should always be a last resort.
Nah man, don't feel guilty. You're just as important out of the military as you were within it. All work is noble.
 

dt3

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But what I'm saying is - why are we spending money and losing lives policing the world based on what was proven to be false intelligence instead of fixing OUR problems?

Is fixing the problems in Iraq a more worthy cause than fixing our own problems?

I'm all for the rebuilding stage and getting our guys the fuck out of there, but 3000+ needless deaths have already occured. The damage is done, and the guys come home to news stories of gang crime, beatings, rapes, murders, robberies, etc.
First off, do not EVER consider, imply, think, or say that these 3000+ people have died in vain. Whether you like the basis for it or not, saving a country from brutal oppression IS a noble cause. Absolutely. We may have gone about it the wrong way, it's a matter of opinion, but we're there now. It's our responsibility to fix it.

As far as coming home to crimes, there was crime before the war too.

And to answer your question is fixing their problems more noble than our fixing our own, I offer this comparison:

You're hungry. As you walk into McDonald's, there's a homeless man sitting outside. Is it more noble for you to go in and get a Supersized #2 because you can. Or is it more noble to say "Nah, I can always feed myself", and give your food to the homeless man?
 

TheOriginalJames

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I'm not implying they died in vain. I'm saying that their deaths came too soon for them. They shouldn't be in harms way.

Nobility aside - we have problems at home that we as a country refuse to fix.
 

AUDRAA

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First off, do not EVER consider, imply, think, or say that these 3000+ people have died in vain. Whether you like the basis for it or not, saving a country from brutal oppression IS a noble cause. Absolutely. We may have gone about it the wrong way, it's a matter of opinion, but we're there now. It's our responsibility to fix it.

As far as coming home to crimes, there was crime before the war too.

And to answer your question is fixing their problems more noble than our fixing our own, I offer this comparison:

You're hungry. As you walk into McDonald's, there's a homeless man sitting outside. Is it more noble for you to go in and get a Supersized #2 because you can. Or is it more noble to say "Nah, I can always feed myself", and give your food to the homeless man?
rep fine sir excellent point!
 

TheOriginalJames

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First off, do not EVER consider, imply, think, or say that these 3000+ people have died in vain. Whether you like the basis for it or not, saving a country from brutal oppression IS a noble cause. Absolutely. We may have gone about it the wrong way, it's a matter of opinion, but we're there now. It's our responsibility to fix it.

As far as coming home to crimes, there was crime before the war too.

And to answer your question is fixing their problems more noble than our fixing our own, I offer this comparison:

You're hungry. As you walk into McDonald's, there's a homeless man sitting outside. Is it more noble for you to go in and get a Supersized #2 because you can. Or is it more noble to say "Nah, I can always feed myself", and give your food to the homeless man?

This really depends, good sir. In my current situation I;

1. am currently broke. Food is getting expensive enough just for me right now. I don't think I've had a filling meal for under 6 bucks in a while.
2. don't carry cash in the first place. (I'd be more inclined to giving them some money)

I have purchased food for perfect strangers, but around here a homeless person is few and far between.
 
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