Hillary's Grand idea........

[NightWarrior]

Yes, I'm absolutely against social security and welfare. Completely.

Retirement isn't the same as the other two. Retirement isn't a government program.




No, I don't get lazy when I make money. But if I was guaranteed x amount of dollars, I certainly would. Why strive to get good grades in HS for a scholarship if I know I'll be able to pay for college regardless?



I don't want national healthcare at all.

Sorry Donnie, didn't mean to lump you in with that crowd.

 

[dt3]

Sorry Donnie, didn't mean to lump you in with that crowd.

Seems like I'm the only against this so far though :cool

 

[All Else Failed]

Yes, I'm absolutely against social security and welfare. Completely.



Retirement isn't the same as the other two. Retirement isn't a government program.

So are you going to be the one who takes my grandmother's monthly check away, whom can't even walk? There are people that NEED welfare, you know. I do think the current welfare system needs to be redone, though.






No, I don't get lazy when I make money. But if I was guaranteed x amount of dollars, I certainly would. Why strive to get good grades in HS for a scholarship if I know I'll be able to pay for college regardless?

Weird, most European countries have something like this, and get free college, and score remarkably higher on everything compared to us.



I don't want national healthcare at all.

Health care shouldn't be denied to any human being just because they cannot afford it.

.......

 

[dt3]

.......

I'm not gonna waste my time justifying my opinions to you. Thanks for playing.

Back on Ignore for you.

 

[Maulds]

Welfare is kinda un-constitutional to me anyway. But we all can agree that Social Security is doomed.

 

[dt3]

But we all can agree that Social Security is doomed.

It can't be, they're still taking my money

 

[All Else Failed]

I'm not gonna waste my time justifying my opinions to you. Thanks for playing.

Back on Ignore for you.

Intellectual cowardice.

Welfare is kinda un-constitutional to me anyway. But we all can agree that Social Security is doomed.

How?

 

[NightWarrior]

Welfare is kinda un-constitutional to me anyway. But we all can agree that Social Security is doomed.

Social Security is not doomed(as Donnie pointed out, they keep on collecting it), but MY social security is...

 

[Maulds]

I'm old school, and I've not been researching this much for the sake of argument but my memory of the Constitution does not provide for the governments use of public monies for charity.

 

[All Else Failed]

I'm old school, and I've not been researching this much for the sake of argument but my memory of the Constitution does not provide for the governments use of public monies for charity.

The US government does a lot of things that aren't in the constitution. Thats is why its a living document, we can change it for the times.

 

[NightWarrior]

I'm old school, and I've not been researching this much for the sake of argument but my memory of the Constitution does not provide for the governments use of public monies for charity.

Technically it doesn't say what the government can do with the money at all other than provide for the people and this is what they are proposing to do with it.

 

[cruisin]

Aus has a baby bonus payment made after the birth of a child but I like the idea of a payment held in trust towards education better.

 

[All Else Failed]

Aus has a baby bonus payment made after the birth of a child but I like the idea of a payment held in trust towards education better.

Yeah, its a no brainer really. It can only help.

Whats the difference between a couple putting aside $5,000 for the child's future education, and the government setting aside $5,000? Nothing, only the person putting it aside.

 

[Peter Parka]

I really don't understand why some people are so against welfare benefits. Are you so heartless that you think people should live in poverty, hand to mouth and with no way of getting medical care if it's not their own fault they are in that position?
I also don't understand why some people are so scared and against something simply because there's a slight hint that it might be a bit communist. Admittedly a lot of bad things have happened in the name of communism but so have they in the name of Capitalism. No system of government is perfect because it will always get tainted by greedy and corrupt individuals but I think its very naieve to dismiss something simply on the grounds that communist countries might agree with that idea.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

Capitalism=I earn money and spend it as I choose.

Communism=The government takes my money and spreads it to everyone.


I mean think about it. The Declaration of Independence says "Life, liberty and the PURSUIT of happiness." Not "We guarantee you'll all get this money courtesy of everyone else regardless of whether or not you deserve it."

I don't like the concept. Sure, education is good. But since when does everything just get handed to you? I believe in the value of hard work. There's already enough government loans, grants, and scholarships. You just gotta work to earn them. There's state universities, students work to put themselves through school all the time.

Want another reason to doubt this will work? Look at social security. Do we really wanna give the government MORE money to hold on to???

I'm working to give MY kid(s) a better life. Not everybody else's. This program would just give people even more incentive to be lazy.

Where'd you get this idea? She hasn't outlined anywhere on what this plan entails and where the money comes from, but you're automatically assuming that it'll be "taking from the middle class and giving to the poor"?

I'd like to see how the plan pans out, because it's an interesting way to improve EVERYBODY'S chances at getting an education. Education leads to jobs, jobs lead to a better economy. Economy leads to a better way of life.

I don't know about you, but my pursuit of happiness begins with having everything I need to accomplish a goal I set for myself... and you know Money is the number one road block for me.

 

[All Else Failed]

Well thats the thing Pete, some of the more conservative people in America have this idea that most people on welfare are just lazy and don't want to work, while this isn't true for the most part. I believe the last figure I saw about the number one recipient of welfare in America was a single white mother, who barely lived on a minimum wage job. She would need welfare.

My grandmother is basically a cripple and lives alone, and she has no means to make money. Her only means for income is welfare and food stamps. People like Dt3 would like to see her in a alley way living in a box, I suppose?


Oh, and don't be fooled by some people out there, this is not even slightly "communist". Its funny because whenever your average American talks about communism they don't even know much about it or what it entails.

 

[Peter Parka]

I agree. It seems such a shame that a lot of Americans still haven't learned anything from the red bashing which went on under McCarthyism. My wife is unable to work and I have to look after her. If there was no welfare we would be in an ever worse position than we are now. Even though we have welfare we get a lot of people too who are against it because biased tabloid newspapers whip them up with propaganda by constantly printing great big 2 page spreads with catchy headlines to report on a story of one of the few people who do cheat benefits while completely ignoring the majority of people struggling on benefits who would honestly love to work but arn't in a position to do so.

 

[All Else Failed]

Its also pretty funny that most people against welfare sit comfortably in their middle class/upper-middle class homes where they have no clue what it is to live that way. There ARE people the NEED government assistance. This whole "pull yourself up by your own boot straps!" bullshit attitude is ridiculous when you consider the people that can't make a living.


America is ruled by the rich. Senators, judges, lobbyists, lawyers, presidents etc etc etc are all basically millionaires or damn close to it. MOST of them have no idea what its like to struggle. How the hell are they supposed to even comprehend the middle class/lower class's needs?

 

[Peter Parka]

Agreed! Its a shame that many people in positions of authority really have no clue about people who the're supposed to be deciding what's best for them. For example, we recently had an MP who was telling people that they needed to drive less and use public transport more despite the services being crap, unreliable and far too expensive for your average joe to use regularly. It was also noticed how the MP himself was the proud owner and user of two cars.

 

[dt3]

I really don't understand why some people are so against welfare benefits. Are you so heartless that you think people should live in poverty, hand to mouth and with no way of getting medical care if it's not their own fault they are in that position?
I also don't understand why some people are so scared and against something simply because there's a slight hint that it might be a bit communist. Admittedly a lot of bad things have happened in the name of communism but so have they in the name of Capitalism. No system of government is perfect because it will always get tainted by greedy and corrupt individuals but I think its very naieve to dismiss something simply on the grounds that communist countries might agree with that idea.

I'm not scared of this because it's Communist. I disagree with it because it is against my beliefs, as I've already stated. There's a difference.

Where'd you get this idea? She hasn't outlined anywhere on what this plan entails and where the money comes from, but you're automatically assuming that it'll be "taking from the middle class and giving to the poor"?

I'd like to see how the plan pans out, because it's an interesting way to improve EVERYBODY'S chances at getting an education. Education leads to jobs, jobs lead to a better economy. Economy leads to a better way of life.

I don't know about you, but my pursuit of happiness begins with having everything I need to accomplish a goal I set for myself... and you know Money is the number one road block for me.

"Taking from the middle class and giving to the poor"??? Show me anywhere in my posts where I said that. I don't care where the money comes from, I think taking someone's money and just giving it away to everybody else goes against the Capatalistic values our country was founded on.

In 2000, there were 4,058,814 births in the US (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005067.html). That's over $20 BILLION dollars for this program. That's a lot of money. And it has to come from somewhere.

And think about this. Right now, a HS diploma is the standard for education. If EVERYONE had a Bachelor's degree, then that would become the new standard. Then, to be an overacheiver, you'd have to get a Master's. After the first 4 years of school, this money would be long gone. So there'd still be people unable to be competitive in the work force. People would be working at McDonalds saying "I only have a Bachelor's, if only I had the money to get my Masters."

I think there's already enough state and federal aid available to anyone who tries to get it for college. You say money is a roadblock to you. Have you ever applied for any of these?:
Student Financial Aid: Scholarships
Info: Student Financial Aid: Scholarships
Student Financial Aid: Loans
And that's not including individual state scholarships. Or private scholarships.

The difference, to me, between these scholarships and this program is scholarships are EARNED. They reward the best and the hardest working.