Hillary's Grand idea........

[All Else Failed]

Its not Communistic......

 

[NightWarrior]

Its also pretty funny that most people against welfare sit comfortably in their middle class/upper-middle class homes where they have no clue what it is to live that way. There ARE people the NEED government assistance. This whole "pull yourself up by your own boot straps!" bullshit attitude is ridiculous when you consider the people that can't make a living.


America is ruled by the rich. Senators, judges, lobbyists, lawyers, presidents etc etc etc are all basically millionaires or damn close to it. MOST of them have no idea what its like to struggle. How the hell are they supposed to even comprehend the middle class/lower class's needs?

People against welfare aren't against helping the people truly in need. They are against those who take advantage of a flawed system. I have witnessed both ends of the spectrum. I have needed food stamps to feed my kids. I also found out how easy it is to take student loans out and further your education to make your life a little easier (this was after having kids, btw). I would say that a lot of the people on welfare could make it on their own if they tried. However, it is easier to take hand-outs. I do support helping those who cannot make a living, such as the elderly, those who are disabled, etc. Having 5 kids is not an excuse for welfare in my opinion.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Have you ever applied for any of these?:
Student Financial Aid: Scholarships
Info: Student Financial Aid: Scholarships
Student Financial Aid: Loans
And that's not including individual state scholarships. Or private scholarships.

The difference, to me, between these scholarships and this program is scholarships are EARNED. They reward the best and the hardest working.

Thanks for the links Donnie. I'll have to look into them and apply.

I've applied for many scholarships with my 4.0 average and haven't been rewarded a penny for my hard work. I keep plugging along though. I won't let it get me down.

 

[Peter Parka]

People against welfare aren't against helping the people truly in need. They are against those who take advantage of a flawed system. I have witnessed both ends of the spectrum. I have needed food stamps to feed my kids. I also found out how easy it is to take student loans out and further your education to make your life a little easier (this was after having kids, btw). I would say that a lot of the people on welfare could make it on their own if they tried. However, it is easier to take hand-outs. I do support helping those who cannot make a living, such as the elderly, those who are disabled, etc. Having 5 kids is not an excuse for welfare in my opinion.

Why punish a lot of innocent people just to stop a very few people who are abusing the system? Thats just like saying we should put everyone in prison to make sure no criminals are getting away with things.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Unfortunate things happen in life and we need social programs to help aid people in certain circumstances. It is the right thing to do regardless of whether or not we live in a capitalistic country. Capitalism doesn't equate to selfish and greedy. The generosity here in the United States is abundant. Even the poorest of the poor in America are some of the richest in the world.

 

[All Else Failed]

People against welfare aren't against helping the people truly in need. They are against those who take advantage of a flawed system. I have witnessed both ends of the spectrum. I have needed food stamps to feed my kids. I also found out how easy it is to take student loans out and further your education to make your life a little easier (this was after having kids, btw). I would say that a lot of the people on welfare could make it on their own if they tried. However, it is easier to take hand-outs. I do support helping those who cannot make a living, such as the elderly, those who are disabled, etc. Having 5 kids is not an excuse for welfare in my opinion.

Ohhhh believe you me. I know people that do not want welfare AT ALL.


But the majority of people are reasonable about giving people welfare who really do need it. I fully agree that our current system is flawed, and it needs a massive overhaul.



As much as I think its incredibly stupid to have 6 kids and expect handouts.....I think there needs to be something to help them out. You can';t just leave people high and dry when they really need help.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

I'm not scared of this because it's Communist. I disagree with it because it is against my beliefs, as I've already stated. There's a difference.



"Taking from the middle class and giving to the poor"??? Show me anywhere in my posts where I said that. I don't care where the money comes from, I think taking someone's money and just giving it away to everybody else goes against the Capatalistic values our country was founded on.

In 2000, there were 4,058,814 births in the US (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005067.html). That's over $20 BILLION dollars for this program. That's a lot of money. And it has to come from somewhere.

And think about this. Right now, a HS diploma is the standard for education. If EVERYONE had a Bachelor's degree, then that would become the new standard. Then, to be an overacheiver, you'd have to get a Master's. After the first 4 years of school, this money would be long gone. So there'd still be people unable to be competitive in the work force. People would be working at McDonalds saying "I only have a Bachelor's, if only I had the money to get my Masters."

I think there's already enough state and federal aid available to anyone who tries to get it for college. You say money is a roadblock to you. Have you ever applied for any of these?:
Student Financial Aid: Scholarships
Info: Student Financial Aid: Scholarships
Student Financial Aid: Loans
And that's not including individual state scholarships. Or private scholarships.

The difference, to me, between these scholarships and this program is scholarships are EARNED. They reward the best and the hardest working.

It's odd. When I did apply for a few of those, I was denied because my parents made too much money, yet didn't have enough to pay the 11k a year for the school I wanted to go to.

Financial aid isn't guaranteed. You could possibly be giving your child a heads up in the world from birth... and you're against higher education?

 

[AUDRAA]

Really I thought anyone could get a student loan. *shrugs*

 

[dt3]

It's odd. When I did apply for a few of those, I was denied because my parents made too much money, yet didn't have enough to pay the 11k a year for the school I wanted to go to.

Financial aid isn't guaranteed. You could possibly be giving your child a heads up in the world from birth... and you're against higher education?

Where the hell did I say I'm against higher education? Please enlighten me. That's the second time in this thread you've put words in my mouth, I'm starting to feel like Grace here.

I said, and will reiterate, I'm against a $20,000,000,000 program that will accomplish VERY little. $5000 wouldn't even pay for HALF a year at the school you wanted to go to. Why spend $20,000,000,000 to send everybody to a semester of college?

 

[GraceAbounds]

That's the second time in this thread you've put words in my mouth, I'm starting to feel like Grace here.

:clap

:24:

 

[TheOriginalJames]

Where the hell did I say I'm against higher education? Please enlighten me. That's the second time in this thread you've put words in my mouth, I'm starting to feel like Grace here.

I said, and will reiterate, I'm against a $20,000,000,000 program that will accomplish VERY little. $5000 wouldn't even pay for HALF a year at the school you wanted to go to. Why spend $20,000,000,000 to send everybody to a semester of college?

"I like the idea of giving every baby born in America a $5,000 account that will grow over time," Clinton said to applause at a Congressional Black Caucus forum.

It's not 5,000. It's 5000 + % of interest over 18 years. Lets say that's a 5% interest rate.

(5000*.5)18 = 45 grand for college expenses.

So no, it's not a semester of college, it could damn near be all four years paid for by the government, which is where quite a few scholarships come from in the first place.

Basically it's free higher education for a child who, at 18, may not have ever had that chance except for iffy scholarships or financial aid that he may or may not get. I don't know about you, but I think this is one hell of a great idea. But I would like to know where this money comes from.

I understand your point of you not liking "getting something for nothing" because of the cost, but by association, that puts you against giving less priviledged persons the ability to get ahead in life.

You know why I don't have my ASE certification? I didn't want my parents to take out a second mortgage on their house.


and no, I'm not putting words in your mouth.

We both work our asses off, I would rather work my ass off to give EVERY child a chance than just one.

 

[All Else Failed]

JAMES YOU COMMUNIST!

 

[dt3]

It's not 5,000. It's 5000 + % of interest over 18 years. Lets say that's a 5% interest rate.

(5000*.5)18 = 45 grand for college expenses.

Your math is flawed. 5%=.05

$5000 x 1.05 = $5,250.

Not a whole lot. I know it's simplified, mostly cuz I don't know how to do compound interest, but I think the absolute MOST you could get out of it is about $10,000 (heard that on the news today).

 

[dt3]

Your math is flawed. 5%=.05

$5000 x 1.05 = $5,250.

Not a whole lot. I know it's simplified, mostly cuz I don't know how to do compound interest, but I think the absolute MOST you could get out of it is about $10,000 (heard that on the news today).

So it gains $250 a year. $250 x 18=$4500

With the $5000, that's $9500 for college. Still not even a year.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Compound Interest Calculator

 

[dt3]

Compound Interest Calculator

Thanks Grace.

It says aout $12,000 and that's with a pretty darn good interest rate.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

Ok it's late and I'm tired. But it all depends on the interest rate, if it doesn't mature for 18 years, the interest rate keeps it growing.

10 grand is one hell of a start to a better education than absolutely nothing though, isn't it?

But tell me what the difference is between this and the military offering new recruits 20 grand as a sort of "sign up bonus" or "re-enlist" bonus.

Think that money is conjurred from thin air?

 

[dt3]

Ok it's late and I'm tired. But it all depends on the interest rate, if it doesn't mature for 18 years, the interest rate keeps it growing.

10 grand is one hell of a start to a better education than absolutely nothing though, isn't it?

But tell me what the difference is between this and the military offering new recruits 20 grand as a sort of "sign up bonus" or "re-enlist" bonus.

Think that money is conjurred from thin air?

Well, I may be biased, but I think having people join the military in a time of war is, in fact, rather important.

 

[TheOriginalJames]

Well, I may be biased, but I think having people join the military in a time of war is, in fact, rather important.

Of course it is, but couldn't 20 grand be better spent on education for children at home as well?

The amount of bonuses military personnel get is astounding, and it comes from my tax money too, which most likely costs tax payers more than 2 billion a year. Probably much like this 5grand/kid every year will come from; my taxes.

So, abolishing dictators and freeing a country is important, but levelling crime rates in our own country and educating our own children is not.

It's all the same to me, but hey I'm all for subsidising our government and pushing more money towards education at home to pay for this.

 

[All Else Failed]

Well, I may be biased, but I think having people join the military in a time of war is, in fact, rather important.

No doubt.


Although the citizen is equally important in times of war. More so in times of peace.