God should bow to man for we are better parents than he is.

[Greatest I am]

Differences? Well let's take a look: It takes 2 humans to reproduce whereas God isn't 2 humans. God created man and the universe man is lucky he hasn't destroyed earth, yet. And so forth and so on.

This is just another ridiculous example where apples and oranges are compared to produce some silly desired result. It is completely hypothetical on the human part and only focuses on one small part to, once again, give a desired result. When held up to reality and what the story of A & E is really about GIA's premise is extremely flawed. The very heart of GIA's point depends on an emotional response and judgement from human beings in a mortal situation here in this existence whereas the story of A & E took place at or near the beginning of creation. These situations are not comparable and neither is God and mankind.

Now, that being said it also sounds like GIA is saying that anyone who dies because of decisions they make are completely not at fault. The fault lies with the parents. What a ridiculous premise.

You have distorted my premise all out of shape.

The premise is that any parent or God who allows his child to die, when they have the means to save them, is an immoral parent and should be jailed for murder.

Regards
DL

 

[Tuffdisc]

Thanks for rejecting your God's methods.

Congratulations.
You have shed yourself of your external conscience and have written a new law on your heart where it is supposed to be.
That was too easy. What did you not say?
God can do whatever he wants because he created us and owns us perhaps.
That is the usual for justifying the unjustifiable.

Regards
DL

I'm not rejecting God, you really like the sound of yourself, don't you? I wonder if one day you would really study the bible without hatred to any form of organised religion

 

[doombug]

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit.

The bible doesn't say this at all. Adam and Eve were given a choice and made it by their own free will. Love can only be given by free will. God could have created puppets to do whatever he pleased but what would be the point of that. Mankind was created and given free will to choose or reject God.

This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

First off God didn't have a child in the sense that He married a woman and they had a child together. Second just because Jesus is referred to as the "Son of God" doesn't mean Jesus was actually God's son. That term was used in other instances and did not mean an actual child. Jesus is God made manifest in human form and referred to as the "Son".

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

Where does it say God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning? Humans have free will and choose to sin. The "solution" you refer to is a chance for redemption.

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

Horse fritters! This isn't mentioned anywhere. Eve wasn't a puppet without her own will. She made the choice.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That’s who.

How else could God demonstrate His love for mankind but to sacrifice himself in human form.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

That's only the way you choose to view it. Your mind is set and you only look to justify your disdain toward Christianity. You have usurped the bible for this purpose.

The wage of sin is death. What sin did Jesus do to earn his wage?

Regards
DL

According to the bible Jesus died for mankind's sins not his own.

You have distorted my premise all out of shape.

The premise is that any parent or God who allows his child to die, when they have the means to save them, is an immoral parent and should be jailed for murder.

Regards
DL

I haven't distorted your premise but I have exposed your premise as being a distortion of the truth. You have either misinterpreted the story of Adam and Eve or you have usurped it and added to it for your own purpose.

 

[Greatest I am]

The bible doesn't say this at all. Adam and Eve were given a choice and made it by their own free will. Love can only be given by free will. God could have created puppets to do whatever he pleased but what would be the point of that. Mankind was created and given free will to choose or reject God.

Yes.
Now tell us what happened the first time they did their wills and not Gods.
The first time they showed they were not robots.

Did God not throw a sissy fit against them and the world and future generations?

First off God didn't have a child in the sense that He married a woman and they had a child together.

True. That would have been the moral thing to do.
Instead God coveted another man's woman and broke not only his commandment but also engaged in bestiality. Yuk.

Second just because Jesus is referred to as the "Son of God" doesn't mean Jesus was actually God's son. That term was used in other instances and did not mean an actual child. Jesus is God made manifest in human form and referred to as the "Son".

Yes. And we all know that God cannot die and that Jesus did not.

Rather droll to think that God could sacri9fice himself to himself. No lose = no sacrifice.

Perhaps that is why scripture says that God will not accept a ransom or sacrifice for sin. It would be immoral.

Where does it say God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning? Humans have free will and choose to sin. The "solution" you refer to is a chance for redemption.

Scripture shows he did. Not he did not.
The solution you see is human sacrifice and that is immoral.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYaQpRZJl18&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-91mSkxaXs

Horse fritters! This isn't mentioned anywhere. Eve wasn't a puppet without her own will. She made the choice.



How else could God demonstrate His love for mankind but to sacrifice himself in human form.

How does a human parent forgive their children?

God could have just done the same and said, you are forgiven. No need for him to have his son murdered. Eh, himself murdered by your twisting of scriptures. After all, he had forgiven some before Jesus was murdered.

That's only the way you choose to view it. Your mind is set and you only look to justify your disdain toward Christianity. You have usurped the bible for this purpose.

What is wrong with my usurping what Christianity usurped in the first place from the Jews?
Do you not believe that reciprocity is fair play?
Are your morals that skewed because of your foolish beliefs in your genocidal God?

According to the bible Jesus died for mankind's sins not his own.

Yet God cannot die.
Scriptures also say that we are responsible for our own sins. Stop trying to profit from the murder of an innocent man.

I haven't distorted your premise but I have exposed your premise as being a distortion of the truth. You have either misinterpreted the story of Adam and Eve or you have usurped it and added to it for your own purpose.

Who distorted the truth?

Me when I follow the originators and their interpretations or you and Christianity after you usurped the myth of Eden from the Jews?

Regards
DL

 

[doombug]

Yes. Now tell us what happened the first time they did their wills and not Gods. The first time they showed they were not robots.

They weren't robots because they had free will. What part of "free will" do you not understand? They were given a choice and they made that choice on their own.

Did God not throw a sissy fit against them and the world and future generations?

God did what He did. Most creators would have scrapped their creation for such a failure but A & E were shown compassion.

_
True. That would have been the moral thing to do. Instead God coveted another man's woman and broke not only his commandment but also engaged in bestiality. Yuk.

How can God break any commandment that is meant for mankind?

Engaged in "bestiality"? Where does the bible say this?
You make outrageous claims without backing them up, pathetic.

Yes. And we all know that God cannot die and that Jesus did not.

If Jesus did not die then how was he "murdered" as you claim?

Rather droll to think that God could sacri9fice himself to himself. No lose = no sacrifice.

If He did it for mankind it proves He is a compassionate being.

Perhaps that is why scripture says that God will not accept a ransom or sacrifice for sin. It would be immoral.

Scripture says? Where does it say it this? More than likely another one of your false statements.

Scripture shows he did. Not he did not. The solution you see is human sacrifice and that is immoral.

Again, where does scripture show this? They were given free will and could choose to sin or not.

Human sacrifice? Jesus was crucified. Once again your are incorrect.

How does a human parent forgive their children?

God could have just done the same and said, you are forgiven. No need for him to have his son murdered. Eh, himself murdered by your twisting of scriptures. After all, he had forgiven some before Jesus was murdered.

Above you claim Jesus did not die. Which is it? Why do you contradict yourself so.

What is wrong with my usurping what Christianity usurped in the first place from the Jews? Do you not believe that reciprocity is fair play? Are your morals that skewed because of your foolish beliefs in your genocidal God?

Doing the same thing you claim Christians did isn't reciprocity it is hypocrisy. Maybe you make such a false claim against the Christians to justify yourself and the nonsense you post.

I never made such a claim.

Yet God cannot die. Scriptures also say that we are responsible for our own sins. Stop trying to profit from the murder of an innocent man.

First you claim A & E to be so innocent and now you claim we are responsible for our own sins. Which is it? You obviously are very confused.

I am not profiting from such as you claim. Another false statement by you.

Who distorted the truth?

Me when I follow the originators and their interpretations or you and Christianity after you usurped the myth of Eden from the Jews?

I haven't "usurped" anything. But the answer is you have distorted the truth. You don't quote scripture to back up your claims because you fear being found out.

 

[Greatest I am]

I come here to chat with people who know some of what their bible says and can connect the dots to some extent.

I expect some though from those I discourse with.

I do not see one of those here.

Come back when you are a man and able to do your own mental leg work boy.

Regards
DL

 

[doombug]

I come here to chat with people who know some of what their bible says and can connect the dots to some extent.

I expect some though from those I discourse with.

I do not see one of those here.

Come back when you are a man and able to do your own mental leg work boy.

Regards
DL

You take your premise from the bible yet you can't show scripture to demonstrate how you came to your conclusion. This proves your premise is bullshit and only shows you are here to PREACH false teachings....regards.

 

[Minor Axis]

If you've ever spent a day in family court, your assumption of man being better parents is nothing but a big pile of ****

Is this your condemnation of the entire human race? If it is not, don't lump us all together.

But if we applied that line of thinking to everything where would we be? No one can see magnetic force but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We use it everyday to power many things. What if man had chosen to ignore it simply because of lack of proof for existence?

A terrible invalid analogy.

What good parent doesn't set rules for their own children? How do parents enforce rules for children? How do you come up with idea that God is like a bad parent?

If you want to describe the God of the Bible as a parent, then he/she/it is an absentee parent, that is how.

The bible doesn't say this at all. Adam and Eve were given a choice and made it by their own free will. Love can only be given by free will. God could have created puppets to do whatever he pleased but what would be the point of that. Mankind was created and given free will to choose or reject God.

Horse fritters! This isn't mentioned anywhere. Eve wasn't a puppet without her own will. She made the choice.

I am not surprised that you are defending the story of Adam and Eve, the absolute worst man generated story in the Bible.

Do you REALLY believe that God did not want man to partake of the tree of knowledge?? If so, I'd like to know what God's reasoning was? I'd also like to know why the all powerful and wise God decided not only to punish the freshly minted A&E , no second chances to learn from ones mistakes, but also applied it to all of their descendants forever? A very loving and merciful parent that God is...

How else could God demonstrate His love for mankind but to sacrifice himself in human form.

Is this what you would describe as a sacrifice? Hey we all (the good ones ) end up in Heaven, most in less than a decade to spend eternity sitting beside the father. I would not describe it as a huge sacrifice.

That's only the way you choose to view it. Your mind is set and you only look to justify your disdain toward Christianity. You have usurped the bible for this purpose.

Don't automatically fall into the trap of accusing people who question as being disdainful. We're just poor lost souls trying to understand. In the name of Jesus, have patience and mercy.

 

[doombug]

Is this your condemnation of the entire human race? If it is not, don't lump us all together.

Giving examples of bad human parents is not condemning the entire human race. It proves humans potential to be terrible parents. GIA's silly premise "lumps" humans together as being such good parents so the comparison is completely valid.

A terrible invalid analogy.

For you of course. If one claims not to believe in something without being proven absolutely then magnetic force falls into that description. Magnetic force and electrical force were thought to be seperate until Maxwell's equations proved otherwise. If electrons and protons can't be readily seen by the eyes then how do you know they exist?

You may not like the analogy but it is valid.

If you want to describe the God of the Bible as a parent, then he/she/it is an absentee parent, that is how.

Is God an absentee parent or have many humans simply ran away from home by rejecting Him.

I am not surprised that you are defending the story of Adam and Eve, the absolute worst man generated story in the Bible.

Do you REALLY believe that God did not want man to partake of the tree of knowledge?? If so, I'd like to know what God's reasoning was? I'd also like to know why the all powerful and wise God decided not only to punish the freshly minted A&E , no second chances to learn from ones mistakes, but also applied it to all of their descendants forever? A very loving and merciful parent that God is...

Humans are free willed beings and can make choices. It seems this is the way our existence works. Many choices we make have consequences why is God to blame for our own foolish choices.

Is this what you would describe as a sacrifice? Hey we all (the good ones ) end up in Heaven, most in less than a decade to spend eternity sitting beside the father. I would not describe it as a huge sacrifice.

But by human standards it is the ultimate sacrifice. Are you not comparing human parents with God? That's right, you only compare this way when it is convenient for you. Such hypocritical practices.

Don't automatically fall into the trap of accusing people who question as being disdainful. We're just poor lost souls trying to understand. In the name of Jesus, have patience and mercy.

But I am not going to ignore truth to keep from "falling into some trap". I don't know about you but GIA preaches these silly premises as truth without offering proof of what he says. His mind is made up and is only looking for a way to justify himself.

 

[Greatest I am]

Humans are free willed beings and can make choices. It seems this is the way our existence works. Many choices we make have consequences why is God to blame for our own foolish choices.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

But by human standards it is the ultimate sacrifice.

True. Death is permanent for us.
In God's case, it is not.

Are you not comparing human parents with God? That's right, you only compare this way when it is convenient for you. Such hypocritical practices.

The O P title starts from there yes.
If you do not want to compare man and God then why are you responding to the O P?

But I am not going to ignore truth to keep from "falling into some trap". I don't know about you but GIA preaches these silly premises as truth without offering proof of what he says. His mind is made up and is only looking for a way to justify himself.

The proof is the story that the bible gives.
Only a poor parent would plan the murder of their child when there is no need for it.
Do you agree?

Regards
DL

 

[Minor Axis]

Giving examples of bad human parents is not condemning the entire human race. It proves humans potential to be terrible parents. GIA's silly premise "lumps" humans together as being such good parents so the comparison is completely valid.

If you want to compare God actions as a parent, he/she/it would be lumped with the bad human parents. There are lots of good parents out there.

For you of course. If one claims not to believe in something without being proven absolutely then magnetic force falls into that description. Magnetic force and electrical force were thought to be seperate until Maxwell's equations proved otherwise. If electrons and protons can't be readily seen by the eyes then how do you know they exist?You may not like the analogy but it is valid.

Their existence is easily proven by Science. There is no evidence for God. So don't pick something that can be proven for your comparison analogy. The day we can prove there is God, then things will change. BTW, I'm not saying there is no God. I'm saying there is no proof for God, especially the God of the Bible or any of the mainstream Holy Books.

Is God an absentee parent or have many humans simply ran away from home by rejecting Him.

As the Atheists in the group like to point out, mankind has also rejected purple dragons.

Humans are free willed beings and can make choices. It seems this is the way our existence works. Many choices we make have consequences why is God to blame for our own foolish choices.

For those who wish to control, it's convenient due to man's perception and limited understanding, to create simplistic choices offered by God, and then call it truth.

But by human standards it is the ultimate sacrifice. Are you not comparing human parents with God? That's right, you only compare this way when it is convenient for you. Such hypocritical practices.

And according to the scriptures, if we have been good, we move to Heaven for eternity. Don't limit yourself to your Earthly existence. You must consider the big picture as painted by the gospels. By all reasoning, Heaven or the afterlife is the true reality. We exist on this Earth for a blink of an eye. Jesus is in Heaven partying away. Many of us will be joining him. This was not a great sacrifice for God.
What is the sacrifice?

But I am not going to ignore truth to keep from "falling into some trap". I don't know about you but GIA preaches these silly premises as truth without offering proof of what he says. His mind is made up and is only looking for a way to justify himself.

Dude, this is "FAITH", there is no proof. You have no truth. GIA over does it, but mostly what he does is pick apart scripture based on a logical approach. Theists as a rule don't like logic applied to their faith.

 

[Greatest I am]

“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.

Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”
Martin Luther

Be a sinner and sin strongly, but more strongly have faith and rejoice in Christ.
Martin Luther

He follows his religious leadership.

Regards
DL

 

[doombug]

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

Where have I stated that I am a Christian? You are assuming facts as always.

Are you saying humans are not free willed beings? I say we humans make choices everyday so my premise is correct.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

Yet you want to lay all blame on the Creator. I say if we are created to be free willed beings that can make choices we are true to our design even if we make bad decisions. How is that the fault of the Creator?

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

You seem to have a big problem with how humans are designed. I'd say it is pretty safe to say humans have the ability to make choices and this is part of our design. You seem to be the biggest critic of human design. Well, since you find this such a flawed design tell us how YOU would design humans and for what purpose.

Your "nature-designed-to-fall" premise is false simply because there is a possibility of success as well. The decision to fall or succeed falls on mankind.

True. Death is permanent for us. In God's case, it is not.

But wait GIA. I do believe you have claimed we never die because it is possible for humans to be tortured for eternity. Why do you contradict yourself so much? Or maybe you don't have consistent beliefs only nonsense based on your need at the moment.

The O P title starts from there yes. If you do not want to compare man and God then why are you responding to the O P?

Are you saying I don't have the right to question your premise? Maybe you only want others to be silent unless they parrot your nonsense.

The proof is the story that the bible gives. Only a poor parent would plan the murder of their child when there is no need for it. Do you agree?

Regards
DL

In the "story" does it say God planned to murder anyone? You are making up parts to the story that aren't true so unless you can show intent was to murder your premise is a lie.

 

[Alien Allen]

If you are not a Christian then may I ask what religion you follow? Because many of your comments sure sound like what would come from a Christian

 

[doombug]

If you want to compare God actions as a parent, he/she/it would be lumped with the bad human parents. There are lots of good parents out there.

You make this claim but fail to back it up. What makes God a bad "parent"? This false claim that GIA makes of plotting a murder? Please, such nonsense.

Their existence is easily proven by Science. There is no evidence for God. So don't pick something that can be proven for your comparison analogy. The day we can prove there is God, then things will change. BTW, I'm not saying there is no God. I'm saying there is no proof for God, especially the God of the Bible or any of the mainstream Holy Books.

We only know how electricity behaves really. Have you ever seen an electron? Imagine tiny particles behaving to create such a powerful force! By your reasoning atoms should be considered a myth. What about human thought? What about the human mind? These things have not been absolutely proven to exist but are accepted to exist. Don't even think about The Big Bang then because it is just a THEORY. Yes, even science goes by FAITH on things that have to do with our very existence.

As the Atheists in the group like to point out, mankind has also rejected purple dragons.

I have read some of your posts lately that are really good. Some of your posts are food for thought for anyone who is looking for truth. But then you go and make a statement like this.

Come on Minor Axis. You made the claim that God is an "absentee parent" to which I raise the possibility that God is not absent there are only people who run away from Him. Then you come back with the purple dragon statement which has nothing to do with the presence of God or humans rejecting Him. If anything you have proven my point that God isn't absent there are only people who reject Him. So you have contradicted yourself.

For those who wish to control, it's convenient due to man's perception and limited understanding, to create simplistic choices offered by God, and then call it truth.

Who wishes to control? Is there not freedom of religion in the US and other places in the world?

"Those" you are talking about are really strawmen for the purpose of your argument. You are backing yourself up with assumptions.

And according to the scriptures, if we have been good, we move to Heaven for eternity. Don't limit yourself to your Earthly existence. You must consider the big picture as painted by the gospels. By all reasoning, Heaven or the afterlife is the true reality. We exist on this Earth for a blink of an eye. Jesus is in Heaven partying away. Many of us will be joining him. This was not a great sacrifice for God.
What is the sacrifice?

The sacrifice was for mankind and by human standards it is the ultimate sacrifice. You use this method to paint God as a terrible "parent" and then contradict yourself here by switching back. I don't know if you can keep from being hypocritical but at least be consistent.

Dude, this is "FAITH", there is no proof. You have no truth. GIA over does it, but mostly what he does is pick apart scripture based on a logical approach. Theists as a rule don't like logic applied to their faith.

This is where you are wrong. GIA doesn't pick apart anything. He uses half truths, assumptions and outright false information to "prove" his nonsense. If he used a logical approach he would back up what he claims with scripture.

I have never claimed to be a Christian. I have been accused of it but I have never claimed it. What I am is seeking truth and so far I see alot of nonsense here. I don't have a problem with anyone who doesn't believe in God or is unsure. I see plenty of evidence for myself to believe but that is my choice. I have looked at many different beliefs, including non-belief, and they all are flawed somehow. Even science is flawed. It doesn't mean I shouldn't look for truth. I don't like when someone concocts premises based on outright lies and then refuses to back up what they say. I don't see how anyone interested in seeking the truth would tolerate such nonsense.

 

[doombug]

If you are not a Christian then may I ask what religion you follow? Because many of your comments sure sound like what would come from a Christian

See the former post.

 

[Minor Axis]

You make this claim but fail to back it up. What makes God a bad "parent"? This false claim that GIA makes of plotting a murder? Please, such nonsense.

You ask several questions, then call my position nonsense without supporting your positions. What makes my opinion non-sense or less sense then your position? If you look at the human parent-child relationship, God is an absentee parent. First of all God acts like he/she/it is hiding. No direct communication, intervention, or guidance. Everything that comes from "God" is in the form of feelings and things imagined. People do like to rationalize why they did not get on that bus that rolled down the side of the mountain. Was it because God was looking out for them or they just happened to be in the right place at the right time?

We only know how electricity behaves really. Have you ever seen an electron? Imagine tiny particles behaving to create such a powerful force! By your reasoning atoms should be considered a myth. What about human thought? What about the human mind? These things have not been absolutely proven to exist but are accepted to exist. Don't even think about The Big Bang then because it is just a THEORY. Yes, even science goes by FAITH on things that have to do with our very existence.

Just because we do not understand everything about our existence and the universe we inhabit, does not mean all of the unknowns floating around equates to a loving, caring, father deity. That is exactly what primitive mankind did. Everything they did not understand, every adverse weather event was attributed to an angry God. Today, I feel confidant that those in the know are beyond that tendency. However, this does not disprove a intelligent deity who might hold dominion over the Universe. Yes, it is possible, but the choices are all equally as likely: its choice is to remain hidden, it is oblivious to us, it does not exist as we imagine it to be, or it is completely beyond our comprehension. Each choice could be right, but none can be picked with certainty.

I have read some of your posts lately that are really good. Some of your posts are food for thought for anyone who is looking for truth. But then you go and make a statement like this.

You mean the purple dragon? God has no more authenticity, than a purple dragon. That is the truth for anyone not all ready assimilated into theist mind set. You say we run away from God. That happens in the same manner as every other fantasy out there- pixies, ghosts, aliens, etc. What makes a difference is when some evidence appears to support these notions.

Come on Minor Axis. You made the claim that God is an "absentee parent" to which I raise the possibility that God is not absent there are only people who run away from Him. Then you come back with the purple dragon statement which has nothing to do with the presence of God or humans rejecting Him. If anything you have proven my point that God isn't absent there are only people who reject Him. So you have contradicted yourself.

There are two issues. #1 if God is a parent, he is an absentee parent as I explained above when compared to the traditional parent-child relationship. He is not there in any kind of meaningful sense. Yes, we can imagine a lot of things, but that is nothing like a parent guiding a child.
#2 God, purple dragon, etc, etc, all fall into the same unsubstantiated category. If you think God is whispering in your ear, who is not to say it's not a purple dragon doing the whispering?

Who wishes to control? Is there not freedom of religion in the US and other places in the world?
"Those" you are talking about are really strawmen for the purpose of your argument. You are backing yourself up with assumptions.

Who wishes to control you ask? Just about every religion that exists on this planet. Go turn on the T.V. for lots of examples.

The sacrifice was for mankind and by human standards it is the ultimate sacrifice. You use this method to paint God as a terrible "parent" and then contradict yourself here by switching back. I don't know if you can keep from being hypocritical but at least be consistent.

It is religion that calls God, our Father which assumes something akin to a human parent/child relationship. I mention God as a terrible parent because it does not act as such and it probably does not exist like popular religions think it does (if at all). I'm critiquing the "sacrifice" argument precisely because it's a sacrifice based on human perception, something that ancient man might think. Duh, look at where all the scriptures that modern religion is based upon... ancient man.

If we know that our Earthly existence is just a flash, but Heaven is for eternity, and you keep the big perspective, then Heaven is more the reality than Earth is. Hence, it's not that big of a sacrifice for God to sacrifice Jesus on the cross.

This is where you are wrong. GIA doesn't pick apart anything. He uses half truths, assumptions and outright false information to "prove" his nonsense. If he used a logical approach he would back up what he claims with scripture.

Mostly what we see in religious based discussion are opinions. However when a religion establishes what it calls specific truths, then there is a basis to pick it apart, because it is Faith, not truth. Is there any basis what so ever to believe in Adam and Eve, The Garden of Eden, Noah's Ark and the Great Flood? I say no. At one point in time, all of these stories held sway with those who want and imagine a God who takes care of them. It feels good. But as science has marched forward, these things can easily be discounted. You disagree? No we don't have everything figured out, but as time goes by, more and more will be understandable to us.

I have never claimed to be a Christian. I have been accused of it but I have never claimed it. What I am is seeking truth and so far I see alot of nonsense here. I don't have a problem with anyone who doesn't believe in God or is unsure. I see plenty of evidence for myself to believe but that is my choice. I have looked at many different beliefs, including non-belief, and they all are flawed somehow. Even science is flawed. It doesn't mean I shouldn't look for truth. I don't like when someone concocts premises based on outright lies and then refuses to back up what they say. I don't see how anyone interested in seeking the truth would tolerate such nonsense.

If there is enough information, "truth" can be determined. But lacking information it's tough to analyze and categorize opinions as sensible or non-sensible. BTW, this kind of a conversation is more enjoyable than hurling insults at one another. I'm not here to demean, but here to learn or at least to consider other opinions...

 

[Tim]

Absentee? Hell, it would be better if he were absentee... Because an absentee parent wouldn't have bothered to flood the entire face of the planet killing every living thing, including innocent newborns, infants and children.
But I guess it was better that he purge the earth of those pesky newborns since they are born with sin in their hearts...

:dunno

and people actually believe this shit is real...

 

[Minor Axis]

Absentee? Hell, it would be better if he were absentee... Because an absentee parent wouldn't have bothered to flood the entire face of the planet killing every living thing, including innocent newborns, infants and children.
But I guess it was better that he purge the earth of those pesky newborns since they are born with sin in their hearts...

:dunno

and people actually believe this shit is real...

My belief is that the majority of humans on the planet have discounted the notion of the Great Flood and that the number of people who believe "this shit" are small and dwindling.

What I find aggravating is that it's not like God is having monthly meetings with the human race, and finally throws up his hands and wipes out everything and everyone, to get a fresh start. This story is equivalent to any fairy tale. Wouldn't that mean that we are all descendants of Noah and his significant other? :humm:

 

[Tim]

My belief is that the majority of humans on the planet have discounted the notion of the Great Flood and that the number of people who believe "this shit" are small and dwindling.

What I find aggravating is that it's not like God is having monthly meetings with the human race, and finally throws up his hands and wipes out everything and everyone, to get a fresh start. This story is equivalent to any fairy tale. Wouldn't that mean that we are all descendants of Noah and his significant other? :humm:

I think the number of believers would shock you... Do you not understand that the very foundation of Christianity is based on the bible being the word of god? There is no wiggle room in that.