Fair tax ?

[robdawg1]

The only thing he did was spend money on roads.....while it created some labor and the need of some supplies.
There is no money to be made from a road....A road cant produce anything.
it cant make lets say and end table made in America.
Second the roads already had repair schedules...now this is what happened...he put the roads ahead of schedule.
The god damn road crews already had schedules !!! they were not the ones in need of jobs,,,its was the jobless that needed jobs !!!!
Third,,,now that the roads are ahead of schedule...many of those people are now jobless !!!!
Fourth...its was all a waste...as they were ahead of schedule...just like going to the tire shop to get new tires when you still have half tread !!!!...every god damn dime was a fucking waste !!!

No I did not support it....as it caused no growth !!
He would have been better off spending it on something that wasn't on a schedule !!
So no...he is a moron when it comes to economics.
He would have been better off just tossing it in the street....as people would have spent it...when people are buying stuff someone has to work to make the stuff people are buying!!

Its called science !

thats way off base...not even close to the only place the stimulus money went!

 

[The Man]

Good night bubba

Wore down before 4:30?




Night rocko

 

[The Man]

thats way off base...not even close to the only place the stimulus money went!

Correct...but many claim the roads were a great aid to the economy...much of the stimulus stayed in house for govt growth



Night rob

 

[robdawg1]

[TABLE="width: 80%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Rural Housing Service insurance fund program account - direct loans and unsubsidized guaranteed loans[/TD]
[TD]$11,672,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Rural community facilities program account[/TD]
[TD]$130,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Special supplemental nutrition program for women, infants and children (WIC)[/TD]
[TD]$500,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]School lunch programs for schools in which at least 50% of students are eligible for free or reduced price meals[/TD]
[TD]$100,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Food bank commodity assistance program[/TD]
[TD]$150,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Temporary increase in benefits under the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (food stamps)[/TD]
[TD]$19,900,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Food distribution program on Indian reservations[/TD]
[TD]$5,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Agricultural disaster assistance transition - Federal Crop Insurance Act[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Farm operating loans[/TD]
[TD]$173,367,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Direct farm operating loans[/TD]
[TD]$20,440,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Emergency food and shelter[/TD]
[TD]$100,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Bureau of Indian Affairs job training and housing improvement programs[/TD]
[TD]$40,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Indian guaranteed loan program[/TD]
[TD]$10,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Community service employment for older Americans[/TD]
[TD]$120,000,000 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Extra funding for state unemployment insurance [/TD]
[TD]$150,000,000 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]State re-employment services for the jobless[/TD]
[TD]$250,000,000 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Child care assistance for low-income families[/TD]
[TD]$1,651,227,000 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Child care assistance for low-income families through state programs[/TD]
[TD]$255,186,000 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Child care assistance for low-income families to improve infant and toddler care[/TD]
[TD]$93,587,000 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Community Service Block Grant Program[/TD]
[TD]$1,000,000,000 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]what about these....these are goverment agencies or roads...[/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[robdawg1]

night y'all

 

[The Man]

[TABLE="width: 80%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Rural Housing Service insurance fund program account - direct loans and unsubsidized guaranteed loans[/TD]
[TD]$11,672,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Rural community facilities program account[/TD]
[TD]$130,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Special supplemental nutrition program for women, infants and children (WIC)[/TD]
[TD]$500,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]School lunch programs for schools in which at least 50% of students are eligible for free or reduced price meals[/TD]
[TD]$100,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Food bank commodity assistance program[/TD]
[TD]$150,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Temporary increase in benefits under the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (food stamps)[/TD]
[TD]$19,900,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Food distribution program on Indian reservations[/TD]
[TD]$5,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Agricultural disaster assistance transition - Federal Crop Insurance Act[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Farm operating loans[/TD]
[TD]$173,367,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Direct farm operating loans[/TD]
[TD]$20,440,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Emergency food and shelter[/TD]
[TD]$100,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Bureau of Indian Affairs job training and housing improvement programs[/TD]
[TD]$40,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Indian guaranteed loan program[/TD]
[TD]$10,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Community service employment for older Americans[/TD]
[TD]$120,000,000 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Extra funding for state unemployment insurance [/TD]
[TD]$150,000,000 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]State re-employment services for the jobless[/TD]
[TD]$250,000,000 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Child care assistance for low-income families[/TD]
[TD]$1,651,227,000 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Child care assistance for low-income families through state programs[/TD]
[TD]$255,186,000 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Child care assistance for low-income families to improve infant and toddler care[/TD]
[TD]$93,587,000 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Community Service Block Grant Program[/TD]
[TD]$1,000,000,000 [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]what about these....these are goverment agencies or roads...[/TD]
[TD]

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Those were cherry picked rob...It would take me several posts to copy and paste all of the inhouse spending.

Night rob...230 here tired...gonna eat a Magnum Ice cream bar{Awesome} and hit the sack

 

[Accountable]

response is still the same..as we only need to look at the result...we have no growth
We have to give incentive for growth by letting them invest in mfg or services or lose the funds in tax.

Are you seriously suggesting that American businessmen have no incentive to grow their businesses? That they're as big as they want to be??

 

[Accountable]

[TABLE="width: 80%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Rural Housing Service insurance fund program account - direct loans and unsubsidized guaranteed loans[/TD]
[TD]$11,672,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Rural community facilities program account[/TD]
[TD]$130,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Special supplemental nutrition program for women, infants and children (WIC)[/TD]
[TD]$500,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]School lunch programs for schools in which at least 50% of students are eligible for free or reduced price meals[/TD]
[TD]$100,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Food bank commodity assistance program[/TD]
[TD]$150,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Temporary increase in benefits under the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (food stamps)[/TD]
[TD]$19,900,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Food distribution program on Indian reservations[/TD]
[TD]$5,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Agricultural disaster assistance transition - Federal Crop Insurance Act[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Farm operating loans[/TD]
[TD]$173,367,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Direct farm operating loans[/TD]
[TD]$20,440,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Emergency food and shelter[/TD]
[TD]$100,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Bureau of Indian Affairs job training and housing improvement programs[/TD]
[TD]$40,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Indian guaranteed loan program[/TD]
[TD]$10,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Community service employment for older Americans[/TD]
[TD]$120,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Extra funding for state unemployment insurance[/TD]
[TD]$150,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]State re-employment services for the jobless[/TD]
[TD]$250,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Child care assistance for low-income families[/TD]
[TD]$1,651,227,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Child care assistance for low-income families through state programs[/TD]
[TD]$255,186,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Child care assistance for low-income families to improve infant and toddler care[/TD]
[TD]$93,587,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]Community Service Block Grant Program[/TD]
[TD]$1,000,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: program"]what about these....these are goverment agencies or roads...[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Lots of those aren't stimulants to the economy, even indirectly.

 

[Stone]

Whatever you say stone...let me have 5 million FREE dollars to set up a furniture factory...you bet.
I will make the god damnest cheapest coffee table you even seen.
I have nothing to lose! it was a free start....and when the cheap fuckers break I will sell more.
The people at the saw mill will stay busy....thus being able to buys tims cars !
And remember the furniture factory has to be built to begin with..creating a need for the sawmill to begin with.
When people are working they are buying stuff,,,when people are buying stuff it creates workers..those workers buy more stuff.
Seriously...if you put some people to work..it creates a demand elsewhere..which causes more jobs.
When people lose jobs we have less money to blow...thus people buy less stuff this puts more people out of work.
This is why the economy is always going up and down...a little shift and the rest follows.
Hell just a simple little invention that caught on could be all it takes to fix the problem...or the need for something dieing out can cause the same problem we have now.
it is usually controlled by adjusting the taxes...lower if the economy slows to give people extra buying power so they buy stuff and keep people in jobs..raise taxes if it is growing to fast.
problem is we have poor piloting of the economy....as shown by them wanting to raise taxes in a slowed economy.
A tax change can take 3 years to stabilize off to have the current economy...its going to be rough ahead if they raise taxes if growth is to slow.

Seriously...if you put some people to work..it creates a demand elsewhere..which causes more jobs.
When people lose jobs we have less money to blow...thus people buy less stuff this puts more people out of work.

This was the core of Obama's stimulus concept.

let me have 5 million FREE dollars to set up a furniture factory....

You think investment money is free for the taking with out any considerations of profit making and pay back?
What an interesting world you live in.

I will make the god damnest cheapest coffee table you even seen.

I suspect you would
But would anyone want to buy it ? LOL!

I have nothing to lose! it was a free start

So, you want the government to hand out millions upon millions upon billions of free dollars for manufacturing of products in an economic climate where the consumer base is generally not receptive to increased supply .
Again....that is a socialist economic model.
You are addressing materialist need politically rather than economic pressures from demand.
You are now deep into supporting Marxist economic theory.
Think not?
Read up on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism

Marxism is based on a materialist understanding of societal development, taking at its starting point the necessary economic activities required by human society to provide for its material needs.

You haven't a clue as to what you are talking about......

And remember the furniture factory has to be built to begin with..creating a need for the sawmill to begin with.

Hard core socialism.

When people are working they are buying stuff,,,when people are buying stuff it creates workers..those workers buy more stuff.

And you will have to keep infusing free money into that model to drive production and expansion of materialist needs because you rejected the motive of being profit oriented.
That is classic socialism and the extreme reasoning of why socialism is not a lasting solution.....it ignores efficiency and value to address materialist needs as a priority.

Hell just a simple little invention that caught on could be all it takes to fix the problem

Like I've been posting......pipe dreams.
It's currently the inability of the consumer base to expand it's consumption on a larger scale that's impeding economic expansion.
Giving away tax credits to investors at this time isn't a solution.....that class has stock piled massive wealth because it hasn't seen a coming turnaround in the near future and isn't interested in risking venture capital. And the decline in venture capital available proves this.
The auto industry turn around is driven by demand, not needs and investment in expansion occurred with out having to inspire it with new tax credits.
There is a vast sea of potential investment opportunities, but it's waiting on consumer demand, not consumer need. And it's profit motivated, not your pipe dream socialist motivation.

it is usually controlled by adjusting the taxes...lower if the economy slows to give people extra buying power so they buy stuff and keep people in jobs.

Anyone notice that TM has gone from hitting the working class with higher taxes with a flat rate sales tax to now claiming they need a tax cut to stimulate the economy?
Bubba.....you can't have it both ways.
You are only debating out of the convenience of the moment....it's BULLSHIT!

.

problem is we have poor piloting of the economy....as shown by them wanting to raise taxes in a slowed economy.

The working/middle class doesn't want their taxes raised. You do with a flat tax... and you want taxes lowered on those that are already benefiting from the existing tax code.
Like you posted in another thread...."fuck the middle class".

 

[Stone]

Are you seriously suggesting that American businessmen have no incentive to grow their businesses? That they're as big as they want to be??

( directed^^^^^ at TM)


TM is definitely now arguing for a socialist economy with the government controlling investment to meet social needs.
And it does contradict with his earlier statements to raise taxes on the poor and working class.

 

[Stone]

TM is a closet Marxist......

 

[Stone]

Your link shows most of the money going to govt agencies...again no growth....growth of govt...which causes the debt problem we have...which leads to increased taxes which slows the economy..which cause more welfare which causes more taxes which further slows the economy
And as said the roads were a waste and caused no growth.
Why put roads ahead of schedule when trillions in debt and later want to raise taxes?..money that could have went to debt....by the money not going to debt,,interest has grown further increasing the need for further taxes which will further slow the economy...poor decision making....obviously written out by staffers who do not have the interest of the people in mind...not necessarily the fault of the president mind you..other than he did endorse it.

As I've been posting, economic socialism is inefficient compared to capitalism.
And in a perverse way....you are arguing for a socialist economy.
You hate Obama, but down deep in the recesses of your tiny tiny mind ( ) you embrace the same economic theories.


What is wrong with you?


,......

 

[Alien Allen]

thats way off base...not even close to the only place the stimulus money went!

that would be correct

they also spent a shit load of money on signs bragging that the road work was from stimulus money

 

[Minor Axis]

Lots of those aren't stimulants to the economy, even indirectly.

Which ones are unworthy?

 

[Alien Allen]

Which ones are unworthy?

most of them

tell me how they stimulate the economy?

they are payoffs to pet projects or constituencies

 

[Minor Axis]

most of them

tell me how they stimulate the economy?

they are payoffs to pet projects or constituencies

Gawd you are cynical. I'll pick one "Child care assistance for low-income families to improve infant and toddler care". You saying this does not add currency into the economy?

 

[Alien Allen]

Gawd you are cynical. I'll pick one "Child care assistance for low-income families to improve infant and toddler care". You saying this does not add currency into the economy?

since you cherry picked one. then find out the administrative cost? Then determine the number of families who utilized the program. Then you can find out if it was worth the cost. It suspect it won't be.

Take the buy back of old cars program about 4 years ago. It cost a shit load per car when you look at that money allocated and divide it into the number or cars involved. The only people that saw a profit on that boondoggle are those who had a POS car or those who administered the program. And was in the end self defeating and financially a mess.

As our lobbyist would say...... "Same Tree, Just Different Monkeys"

 

[The Man]

that would be correct

they also spent a shit load of money on signs bragging that the road work was from stimulus money

My favorite were the bridge signs.
This bridge {small bridges} scheduled for inspection.
So they take 2 hours to put up a sign...then leave and come back 6 months later to look at a bridge...When they could have inspected it while they were there !!
Then another crew comes and takes down the sign...puts up another saying it was inspected....they they come out and get it a couple months later.
How efficient.
How to raise the price of a bridge inspection by 4 x.

What a way to stimulate the economy.

 

[The Man]

Gawd you are cynical. I'll pick one "Child care assistance for low-income families to improve infant and toddler care". You saying this does not add currency into the economy?

It gives daycare workers more money !!...they were already getting paid..why would they need a raise?
If jobs are down...more moms are at home..so why was there a need for more daycare?
Now go cut your nuts

 

[The Man]

Which ones are unworthy?

How about you name some that added growth to the economy and was aimed at putting people to work...Much easier to create that list than a list of unworthy ones....as most of em are unworthy.