Dubai waiter rapes Brit girl – then SHE and fiance are held for illegal sex

[Zorak]

Please point out the remark in question. I'm .....stumped.

I'm very confused.

Did you just add a remark into my quote that was never there.

I hope you didn't. Otherwise I have some strong words for you that will get me an infraction.

 

[Grin]

I showed you a quote from the Sura of Al Ma'Idah which shows in no uncertain terms that it's ok to drink alcohol. Of course there are other Suras that contradict it. Like I said before, EVERY holy text is completely subject to interpretation.

That is true, but how do you explain the fact that throughout the Muslim world, alcohol is frowned upon? That passage may exist, and it may be interpreted in the way YOU clearly interpret it, but why then do the majority of Muslims in the world view the consumption of alcohol as sinful?

 

[Grin]

I'm very confused.

Did you just add a remark into my quote that was never there.

I hope you didn't. Otherwise I have some strong words for you that will get me an infraction.

The writing in bold is MY response to YOU.

*Ahem*

 

[dt3]

That is true, but how do you explain the fact that throughout the Muslim world, alcohol is frowned upon? That passage may exist, and it may be interpreted in the way YOU clearly interpret it, but why then do the majority of Muslims in the world view the consumption of alcohol as sinful?

People believe what they're told. The vast majority of Muslims in the Middle East are unable to read the Quran on their own, which gives an inordinate amount of power to the local Imams and clerics. These religious leaders are then able to twist the "word of god" to anything they want, including approval of suicide bombings being carried out against children. A sober populace could be seen to be much easier to rule over, so I hardly find it surprising they would teach this in those countries.

Also, just because it's "forbidden" in absolutely no way means they don't drink. The Bible forbids cheating on your spouse and coveting your neighbor, but people do it every single day. Alcohol was prohibited in the US for years, but that didn't stop anybody from drinking.

I don't even know why we've gotten off on this tangent. How can you not see that allowing a rapist to go free is wrong, regardless of the country or circumstance?

 

[Zorak]

she (idiotically) expected to be to treated in a fair and just way. It doesn't work that way in Muslim countries

There.

Now, as I have stated twice before, you have no idea how to keep track of what is being said by you. :24:

 

[Grin]

People believe what they're told. The vast majority of Muslims in the Middle East are unable to read the Quran on their own, which gives an inordinate amount of power to the local Imams and clerics. These religious leaders are then able to twist the "word of god" to anything they want, including approval of suicide bombings being carried out against children. A sober populace could be seen to be much easier to rule over, so I hardly find it surprising they would teach this in those countries.

Also, just because it's "forbidden" in absolutely no way means they don't drink. The Bible forbids cheating on your spouse and coveting your neighbor, but people do it every single day. Alcohol was prohibited in the US for years, but that didn't stop anybody from drinking.

I don't even know why we've gotten off on this tangent. How can you not see that allowing a rapist to go free is wrong, regardless of the country or circumstance?

But that is the thing..... I NEVER said it is wrong for the rapist to get of scot free. If you look back over this thread you'll see that I said rape is ALWAYS wrong, and that there is no such thing as a 'deserved' or an 'innocent' rape.

My point is that this woman acted in a remarkably stupid way all round, and that the West shouldn't be so quick to pour scorn on the laws of Dubai. We may not agree with it, but these people have as much right to govern themselves, in the way they want, than we do. When you are a tourist in a foreign country you MUST act in a way that is respectful of that country.

 

[Grin]

There.

Now, as I have stated twice before, you have no idea how to keep track of what is being said by you. :24:

*Speechless* Just totally..... *speechless*

How you interpreted that remark to be racist is just .... is just.... incomprehensible. :eek

In Islamic countries, a woman is stoned to death if she speaks with a man who is not a family member.
In Islamic countries, a woman isn't allowed to drive a car or study for certain professions.
In Islamic countries, a man can divorce his wife simply by walking three times around her. Oh, and he always gets to keep the kids.

Fair and just doesn't come into it. Never has, never will. What I said was a statement of fact, not a racist remark.

 

[Zorak]

*Speechless* Just totally..... *speechless*

How you interpreted that remark to be racist is just .... is just.... incomprehensible. :eek

I'm getting tired of this, and I've lost all confidence in your ability to rationalise or reason effectively. So lets spell it out.

You should have said "she (idiotically) expected to be to treated in a fair and just way. It doesn't work that way in Dubai"

I''d recommend you do some background reading on a number of muslim countries. Start with Turkey, and the formation of the Republic of Turkey under the guidance of Ataturk.
After Ataturk's victory in the war of independance he established a new government in Ankara (away from Istanbul, and is still the capital to this day) that hoped to achieve secularism and a society that fell in line with the ideals of the Englightenment. These were called the Kemalist ideals.

 

[dt3]

*Speechless* Just totally..... *speechless*

How you interpreted that remark to be racist is just .... is just.... incomprehensible. :eek

In Islamic countries, a woman is stoned to death if she speaks with a man who is not a family member.
In Islamic countries, a woman isn't allowed to drive a car or study for certain professions.
In Islamic countries, a man can divorce his wife simply by walking three times around her. Oh, and he always gets to keep the kids.

Fair and just doesn't come into it. Never has, never will. What I said was a statement of fact, not a racist remark.

Every single one of those comments is blatantly ignorant. Just as an example, Indonesia is the country with the world's highest number of Muslims...the most populous Muslim country IN THE WORLD, and none of that applies. You've taken the beliefs of a few hardliners and countries, and applied it across an entire spectrum of people based on their religion. Maybe it's not exactly racism, but you're incorrectly stereotyping an entire group of people which is pretty much the same thing.

 

[kelvin070]

I don't understand you guys. Why can't you guys debate without calling names like racists, anti-american, anti-western etc. Why resort to such name calling. Just debate the topic, thats all.

 

[Godsloveapples]

Thats the trouble with you guys who are so used to the freedom in your home countries and when you travel to a foreign country you tend to forget that their laws turns against you.

lol wow that s so badthey shouldnt do that to her wtf

 

[kelvin070]

Drop rape charge and admit you were drunk, Brit girl told

London, January 9: The British woman, who was raped by a waiter in Dubai and later arrested for ‘illegal drinking’ and ‘illegal sex’, has been told to drop her allegations, admit she was drunk and marry her fiance immediately if she wants to go free.

The 23-year-old Londoner - a Muslim with a Pakistani background - had been raped by a waiter at a New Year’s Eve party where she was celebrating her engagement to her boyfriend.
And when they went to Bur Dubai police station the next day to report the incident, they were instead arrested for drinking outside licensed premises and unmarried sex.
“It’s a living nightmare - I can’t believe this is happening to me,” the Sun quoted her as tearfully telling friends.
The woman told pals she must stay in Dubai until her trial unless she agrees to the prosecutors’ suggestions. “I always dreamed of a big family wedding in Britain, but now I just want to get married so I can get out of here,” she said.

Drop rape charge and admit you were drunk, Brit girl told

 

[Grin]

I'm getting tired of this, and I've lost all confidence in your ability to rationalise or reason effectively. So lets spell it out.

You should have said "she (idiotically) expected to be to treated in a fair and just way. It doesn't work that way in Dubai"

I''d recommend you do some background reading on a number of muslim countries. Start with Turkey, and the formation of the Republic of Turkey under the guidance of Ataturk.
After Ataturk's victory in the war of independance he established a new government in Ankara (away from Istanbul, and is still the capital to this day) that hoped to achieve secularism and a society that fell in line with the ideals of the Englightenment. These were called the Kemalist ideals.

LOL! I don't mean to be rude, but I find it hilarious when a teenage father questions my ability to reason effectively.

 

[Abcinthia]

LOL! I don't mean to be rude, but I find it hilarious when a teenage father questions my ability to reason effectively.

First things first he wasn't a teenager when he became a father and what has his age got to do with anything?

Are you really trying to say that teenage parents cannot reason or debate in anyway?

 

[Grin]

First things first he wasn't a teenager when he became a father and what has his age got to do with anything?

Are you really trying to say that teenage parents cannot reason or debate in anyway?

You are right.... that WAS an inappropriate remark to make. The sentiment behind it turned out to be true though, because I have just received an incredibly immature, foul mouthed, and deeply insulting PM from Zorak. LOL!!!!!

 

[Accountable]

So you meant to be rude. Zorak was rude. There's balance in the world. Go back to pretending to be civil.

 

[Peter Parka]

LOL! I don't mean to be rude, but I find it hilarious when a teenage father questions my ability to reason effectively.

Jesus, this thread attracts morons like shit attracts flies. :willy_nilly:

 

[Margene]

Wrong. If you were serious about human rights, you would demand that countries that practice these barbaric laws be punished and ostracized by the global community until they step into the 21st century.

Similar to the way South Africa was ostracized over apartheid.

This woman is an absolute idiot. :eek

She (herself a Muslim) drank alcohol and had unmarried sex in a country where this is forbidden, especially for women. She knew this, yet she deemed it a good idea to go to the police and report a crime which happened because because she was drunk. Did it not occur to her that the police would frown on her drinking and sexual activities?

WTF did she think would happen? Did she REALLY imagine the police would turn a blind eye to her behaviour and care that a crime was committed against her? They must be laughing their heads off!



It is really no use to view this from a Western perspective. When in Rome, pretend to be Roman.

I'm taken aback at this post. A violent crime was committed against her. I'm sure that was first and foremost in her mind and that of her fiance when they went to report it.

This is wrong, actually. All forms of drinking alcohol are forbidden to Muslims. Drinking alcohol is sinful in Islam and explicitly forbidden by God in Quran. If you want to drink alcohol, you can't call yourself Muslim, which is what this woman did.

Next time, make sure of your facts before you jump down my throat. I think you are confusing Hindus with Muslims.

Of course no woman should except to be raped with no accountability. Rape is ALWAYS wrong - there is no such thing as a 'deserved' rape or an 'innocent' rape. However, no woman who gets drunk enough to pass out in a toilet can reasonably expect to have positive things happen to her. Personal responsiblility comes into this, and she has shown none by openly
a) getting drunk in a Muslim country
b) having illegal sex
c) passing herself off as Muslim while engaging in these activities.

What she did can be compared to a robber who stole a bar of gold, and then showed up at the hospital (demanding treatment), because he dropped the gold on his foot. All this, while clutching the stolen gold.

Ludicrous. Absolutely ludicrous.

But when a crime is committed even against those who show poor judgement, they should not report the crime and allow the animal who took advantage of her to get away with it and possibly commit the same crime on another woman?

But that is the thing..... I NEVER said it is wrong for the rapist to get of scot free. If you look back over this thread you'll see that I said rape is ALWAYS wrong, and that there is no such thing as a 'deserved' or an 'innocent' rape.

My point is that this woman acted in a remarkably stupid way all round, and that the West shouldn't be so quick to pour scorn on the laws of Dubai. We may not agree with it, but these people have as much right to govern themselves, in the way they want, than we do. When you are a tourist in a foreign country you MUST act in a way that is respectful of that country.

I believe it's been said in this thread, that wrong is wrong.

The world, or a great part of it, poured scorn upon South Africa and helped (along with domestic pressure) to dissolve apartheid and effect the release of Mandela. Scorn seems to be an effective tool, albeit, it takes time.

Brits and westerners in general, well anyone who cares about human rights, should shun vacationing in Dubai.

 

[Accountable]

[...]
... a crime which happened because because she was drunk.
[...]

I think this line sums up Grin's attitude towards women in general.

Rape does not happen because a woman gets drunk. Rape happens because a rapist attacks.

 

[Margene]

I think this line sums up Grin's attitude towards women in general.

Rape does not happen because a woman gets drunk. Rape happens because a rapist attacks.

I'd like to see what she has to say about that comment.

However, I agree, rape doesn't happen because a woman gets drunk. It is not a crime of sex, that is the weapon. Rape is a crime of violence against a woman.